Disaster strikes with my new GLV2... pics included..

[THE]

You went out and bought what the book told you to buy. You didn't do anything wrong. I agree with that guy, it disgusts me that everyone blames the world when they .... up these days, but you didn't do anything out of line. Not at all.

How in all hell was this guy supposed to know that C123 wasn't just a size of battery? Like another other device you'd buy in the states that called for AA, AAA, C, D, etc??

The manufacturer is supposed to know what the hell they're doing. Anyone running a company selling those who doesn't bother to thoroughly warn the consumer about the danger of using certain batteries that FIT RIGHT IN THE THING should shut down and run something else. Period.

Is the manufacturer liable because the batteries his product recommended exploded?
Are you liable for using "after market" batteries? Did the manufacturer say that you could go and buy your own batteries? Did the manufacturer say that you couldn't?

There are 100 questions here
This would be a MESS in court

Whoever makes these.. my advice to you is simple, consider this to be a cost of doing business, resend this guys order and apologize for any inconvenience. Include a warning card or some kind of a thing with each shipment. Add a little text to the website on pages where you sell these devices.

This all will cost you virtually nothing from a business standpoint. You have a cool website, neat graphics and what looks like an incredibly nice design for your product. It looks like a good company run by good people offering a good product. You have a-lot of work in the company and you don't need black eyes over a hundred or so dollars. Doing what I'm saying will be well worth it.

Cozzicon .. Again, I certainly understand your frustration with todays "nothing is your fault" society.. This guy didn't spill hot coffee over his balls and demand a retirement sized payoff.. He bought something, saw that it called for "C123".. Went out and bought "C123" and it turned out to be a big problem for him.

 

[THE]

Yea... but he had the proper information on batteries that would work- and didn't use it. He asked a question about what the proper battery would be, got information and didn't use it.

Still comes up a draw in my mind.

I missed this part, if it is there.. I read 90% of this thread.. and all I see was the book itself said C123??
I am not talking about what he couldda wouldda shouldda gotten from some e-cig forum or google.. If wal-mart sold me something that called for AA batteries, I went and bought ANY battery that said AA on it.. and it blew up.. and THEN I found out on some board that it was dangerous to use some types of AA batteries with the device I bought..

I'd be pretty upset and mad with wal-mart

Edit: As an aside... to the OP.. has there been any more communication with GLV? I e-mailed this thread to them for you (and for them).

 

[THE]

y
you know I find this topic interesting because people also assume that protected batteries are safe to stack...and there's so much more that goes into that...
how many people know that static electricity or a faulty charger can fry a PCB with no indication to the user?
how many people know that there are several levels of protection in a LiION battery...and just because it says protected doesn't mean it's fully protected (that's why some say IC protection or fully protected vs just saying protected)
how many people still buy and use ultrafire cr123 batteries even though amp draw of most atties at 5V+ (heck even at 3.7V) well exceeds the max drain rating of the batteries causing them to be overstressed and run at full discharge because they want to save a few bucks over good decent batteries?...
personally I think vendors should warn against using anything except 18650 size batteries, the AW LiMN 14500, the AW LiMN 16340, or the AW LiFePo4......but I ain't holding my breath for the day that happens

That is good to know
You're the ECF battery expert
I've learned quite a bit from you Mr. Drozd

 

[Papa Lazarou]

I can see both sides of this. Yes the OP could have done more research (there are very prominent warnings on this forum about battery safety with mods) and yes I think the seller should have provided information about battery safety with their product. With mods made by hobbyists and swapped around enthusiasts in very low numbers, product liability is not really an issue IMO, but it certainly is if they are being produced on a larger scale and sold commercially.

Something I wonder is what warnings were given with the batteries. Did they give warnings about the dangers of over-discharging them for example?

 

[RippleInStillWater]

I had a protected 18650 battery go schizoid on me in my REO, meleted the plastic bottle and carbonized the bottom metal spring and killed the switch, I picked it up and it was hot -- and I like to think I know what I'm doing so this scared the bejeezus out of me. He rebuilt the REO for free but it was a completely uncool thing to happen and I've been told it was a bad batt.....I just pay more attention now. I myself have not had a batt problem in any of my GLV's but I hadn't heard about any REO batt problems beforehand, what's the old joke "good news, bad news -- we have discovered a new disease and we've named it after you!", no one wants to be the first guy with a problem as there is no pathway telling him what happened, no experience and no solution.

As a multi-GLV owner I obviously like the product a lot (come on, GLV-3!) but I think Jay has been overwhelmed by the popularity of the product and perhaps a couple things have slipped by him; we all have seen the 'impatient future owner's' posts and that has to affect the product construction and site updating. Just my

 

[Drozd]

Oh and they don't know the temp that Li-Ions become unstable and thermal runaway is unstopable at either

 

[THE]

I had a protected 18650 battery go schizoid on me in my REO, meleted the plastic bottle and carbonized the bottom metal spring and killed the switch, I picked it up and it was hot -- and I like to think I know what I'm doing so this scared the bejeezus out of me. He rebuilt the REO for free but it was a completely uncool thing to happen and I've been told it was a bad batt.....I just pay more attention now. I myself have not had a batt problem in any of my GLV's but I hadn't heard about any REO batt problems beforehand, what's the old joke "good news, bad news -- we have discovered a new disease and we've named it after you!", no one wants to be the first guy with a problem as there is no pathway telling him what happened, no experience and no solution.

As a multi-GLV owner I obviously like the product a lot (come on, GLV-3!) but I think Jay has been overwhelmed by the popularity of the product and perhaps a couple things have slipped by him; we all have seen the 'impatient future owner's' posts and that has to affect the product construction and site updating. Just my

I agree. You can certainly tell that a-lot went into this company of his. Hell, he even offers a t-shirt. And his website doesn't look like 1999 web design.

 

[keyzygirl]

I told you in another thread to get protected batts as did others here.I recomended Ikenvape,remember?

 

[THE]

I told you in another thread to get protected batts as did others here.I recomended Ikenvape,remember?

The plot thickens..
YouTube - DRAMATIC SOUND EFFECT "SHOCK HORROR"

 

[AngusATAT]

Everyone relax. I don't want to see any more bashing of the OP in this thread. It's an unfortunate incident that luckily didn't seriously hurt someone. Those of us who have been around a while and have experience using mods know that using unprotected batts in series in a mod is risky, but not everyone knows that, or has been around the forums long enough to have seen this type of thing before.

I am moving this to the GLV forum so Jay can see it and respond.

 

[smokum]

Very unfortunate, both the incident AND the overall situation leading to it.....

I hope the OP is unscathed and that vendors will at least NOW start taking some responsibility for the products they are selling (both standard equip & mods), by providing simple disclosure statements and safety warnings. It is LONG OVERDUE !

This industry is only going to grow even larger than it currently is, and as such will fall into the numbers game of probabilities with the volume of users out in the market. It's silly to even fathom a "business", whether small or large, would not consider covering their butts by any means capable to avoid liability via simple and near free actions & procedures.

Good luck & best wishes to ALL.......

VapeOn,
Greg

 

[ShannonS]

I had a protected 18650 battery go schizoid on me in my REO, meleted the plastic bottle and carbonized the bottom metal spring and killed the switch, I picked it up and it was hot -- and I like to think I know what I'm doing so this scared the bejeezus out of me. He rebuilt the REO for free but it was a completely uncool thing to happen and I've been told it was a bad batt.....I just pay more attention now. I myself have not had a batt problem in any of my GLV's but I hadn't heard about any REO batt problems beforehand, what's the old joke "good news, bad news -- we have discovered a new disease and we've named it after you!", no one wants to be the first guy with a problem as there is no pathway telling him what happened, no experience and no solution.

As a multi-GLV owner I obviously like the product a lot (come on, GLV-3!) but I think Jay has been overwhelmed by the popularity of the product and perhaps a couple things have slipped by him; we all have seen the 'impatient future owner's' posts and that has to affect the product construction and site updating. Just my

This was a concern to me. These guys are innovating at a brisk clip and they are under constant pressure to produce more product. I hate when people start talking about suing and liability. The device was built to handle "critical battery failure" and it did well in keeping the user safe when the battery went boom. The product design was a success

 

[rolygate]

You seem to be placing blame on others, when it was your fault for not educating yourself. Sorry, but that's the truth. You do have to read everything. that's why it is an advanced device. Once you step up to these type of batteries you do have to know what you are dealing with.

Sorry but I totally disagree. Nobody should be selling devices that can explode in someone's face, without ensuring that the buyer has all the safety information they need.

It should be, as near as practicable, impossible to unpack, use and insert unprotected batts in a mod. That means there should be clear warnings everywhere on the package and even inserted on a card within the mod itself, that unprotected batts MUST NOT BE USED.

You're talking about a pipebomb someone holds in front of their face.

It needs clear and unavoidable warnings, plus some safety features such as several gas vents and a kill switch so that even if a battery is mis-labelled at the factory, the consumer has some measure of protection.

It these things aren't obvious to a vendor then they shouldn't be in the business - period.

Either ECF failed or...

Bert, I take your point here that ECF needs to do more. I did a lot of work on this a few months back to try and make suppliers take this more seriously, and take responsibility for safety issues. Some have done so, but it seems there are a few who don't get it. So we'll have to push this even more, because it needs to be done. And if there is any question that people (like you) are saying "ECF has failed" then we obviously have a mandate to do more.

People are going to buy and use mods without any detailed knowledge of how they should be used, and without any inclination to do any research on them - because when you buy something you expect it all to be cut and dried. If there's something you need to know, then it will be on the package somewhere. If you buy a diesel car then you get told to put diesel in it, you're clearly told not to put gas in it. If you buy a mod then you need to be told not to put unprotected batteries in it, and that's all there is to it.

ECF is now going to push this very hard and we clearly have a mandate to do so.

 

[LowThudd]

Sorry but I totally disagree. Nobody should be selling devices that can explode in someone's face, without ensuring that the buyer has all the safety information they need.

It should be, as near as practicable, impossible to unpack, use and insert unprotected batts in a mod. That means there should be clear warnings everywhere on the package and even inserted on a card within the mod itself, that unprotected batts MUST NOT BE USED.

You're talking about a pipebomb someone holds in front of their face.

It needs clear and unavoidable warnings, plus some safety features such as several gas vents and a kill switch so that even if a battery is mis-labelled at the factory, the consumer has some measure of protection.

It these things aren't obvious to a vendor then they shouldn't be in the business - period.



Bert, I take your point here that ECF needs to do more. I did a lot of work on this a few months back to try and make suppliers take this more seriously, and take responsibility for safety issues. Some have done so, but it seems there are a few who don't get it. So we'll have to push this even more, because it needs to be done. And if there is any question that people (like you) are saying "ECF has failed" then we obviously have a mandate to do more.

People are going to buy and use mods without any detailed knowledge of how they should be used, and without any inclination to do any research on them - because when you buy something you expect it all to be cut and dried. If there's something you need to know, then it will be on the package somewhere. If you buy a diesel car then you get told to put diesel in it, you're clearly told not to put gas in it. If you buy a mod then you need to be told not to put unprotected batteries in it, and that's all there is to it.

ECF is now going to push this very hard and we clearly have a mandate to do so.

Veru good. Thank you sir.

 

[Kargonet]

Wow, 12 pages so far in this thread...amazing.

I know when I bought our BB and SB from AltSmoke they included care and feeding instructions and were very specific about what batteries to use and more specifically what batteries not to use. I could only get one battery for my BB from AltSmoke so I went to another trusted vendor and ordered some from there. On their website the description on the batteries said they were protected but when I got them they obviously were not. I was pretty much back in the only having one battery boat. Fortunately AltSmoke got the protected batteries back in stock pretty quickly and now I have spares.

After reading through this whole thread I really understand the need for vendors to educate their buyers both on the website and just a small sheet of paper included with the purchase. Putting that one sheet of paper in the order could really make the differance. Maybe a sticky in their forum addressing the importance of having the right charger and protected batteries. That being said, it's also up to the buyer to educate themselves about what they're buying. Not only about the PV but about the equipment that they need for that PV. With all the information on this forum alone, there's no reason for saying...I didn't know. I can't take the credit for doing any of the research on the PVs we have, Randy read for hours on end before we bought our eGos and then the AltSmoke goodies. He's been adamant from the very beginning that I keep a close eye on batteries that are charging and wouldn't even entertain the idea of using an unprotected battery in my BB. Now I know why.

I can understand the OP being totally bummed about having a new toy and then not being able to play with it because of something half a world away that normally wouldn't impact his life in the least. I'm glad he's ok, sorry about the loss of the GLV...bummer. Hard lesson learned for both vendor and buyer but I bet neither makes the same mistake again.

 

[Drozd]

Sorry but I totally disagree. Nobody should be selling devices that can explode in someone's face, without ensuring that the buyer has all the safety information they need.

It should be, as near as practicable, impossible to unpack, use and insert unprotected batts in a mod. That means there should be clear warnings everywhere on the package and even inserted on a card within the mod itself, that unprotected batts MUST NOT BE USED.

You're talking about a pipebomb someone holds in front of their face.

It needs clear and unavoidable warnings, plus some safety features such as several gas vents and a kill switch so that even if a battery is mis-labelled at the factory, the consumer has some measure of protection.

It these things aren't obvious to a vendor then they shouldn't be in the business - period.



Bert, I take your point here that ECF needs to do more. I did a lot of work on this a few months back to try and make suppliers take this more seriously, and take responsibility for safety issues. Some have done so, but it seems there are a few who don't get it. So we'll have to push this even more, because it needs to be done. And if there is any question that people (like you) are saying "ECF has failed" then we obviously have a mandate to do more.

People are going to buy and use mods without any detailed knowledge of how they should be used, and without any inclination to do any research on them - because when you buy something you expect it all to be cut and dried. If there's something you need to know, then it will be on the package somewhere. If you buy a diesel car then you get told to put diesel in it, you're clearly told not to put gas in it. If you buy a mod then you need to be told not to put unprotected batteries in it, and that's all there is to it.

ECF is now going to push this very hard and we clearly have a mandate to do so.

hopefully it won't be like the changes that were proposed last time (a few months ago)...which were kind of unreasonable in some regards...(ie. there must be a master kill switch, and some of the other ones)....for a mod to be advertised or promoted on here...

seriously, ECF in no way failed...it's not this forum's responsibility...it's a fine edge to walk...you restrict and limit the vendors and modders too much and it'll end up hurting the forum too

requiring appropriate labeling and warnings from vendors isn't too far...expecially when they have their own subforum on here isn't too far to go.....requiring specific features on their products for them to be able to advertise is...

 

[ShannonS]

Thank you for the that post, rolygate.

When I said EFC failed, I meant that the PV owner asked about batteries twice in the forums and no one told him about the problems with unprotected batteries. I did that so people would stop bashing the guy and see that he did ask questions about batteries and still didn't get the information that would be vital for the safe operation of his PV. Expecting a new PV owner to search ECF for information in order to keep their PV from exploding is a fail. That information should come from the people selling the PVs.

I appreciate EFC taking safety concerns to the next level so much, but it is ultimately the makers of the devices that need to educate their customers on how to use them safely. They shouldn't rely on EFC and a forum to do it for them.

 

[MXBNW]

Question

1. Has anyone heard from the vendor?

2. Has anyone ordered a GLV in the past and can verify that there is no information in the
packaging that pertains to what battery’s can be used or should not be used.

 

[Bovinia]

hopefully it won't be like the changes that were proposed last time (a few months ago)...which were kind of unreasonable in some regards...(ie. there must be a master kill switch, and some of the other ones)....for a mod to be advertised or promoted on here...

seriously, ECF in no way failed...it's not this forum's responsibility...it's a fine edge to walk...you restrict and limit the vendors and modders too much and it'll end up hurting the forum too

requiring appropriate labeling and warnings from vendors isn't too far...expecially when they have their own subforum on here isn't too far to go.....requiring specific features on their products for them to be able to advertise is...

I respectfully disagree with parts of your post Drozd. Safety should be priority number 1 whether it be mods, accessories, juices, etc. that are advertised and sold here. The ECF boards are just 1 of many vaping forums, we can't possibly hope to educate people who aren't members here. That job belongs to the seller. Being too busy with production is no excuse for failing to provide proper warnings and instructions.

Would you rather see the our community hurt by requiring safety over enthusiasm, or someone seriously injured by a mod or a bad batch of juice? We have a responsibility to our members by not allowing unsafe products to be sold here...it's the same concept of "it takes a village..."

 

[LowThudd]

This is the only disclaimer shown on the product page:

Keep out of reach of children. Keep all nicotine cartridges and fluids in a safe place and away from children. One cartridge contains enough nicotine that it could cause serious harm when ingested by a small child. If injested, seek medical assistance immediately.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A small percentage of e-liquid users are sensitive to propylene glycol, which is the main constituent of e-liquid and is also found in some soft drinks, popcorn, ice cream, and food coloring. It is also the "oil" that produces the steam or vapor in vaporizers and nebulizers. If you find that you are sensitive to propylene glycol, you should stop using e-liquid and/or seek medical treatment.

Alot more should have been said, and this is the fine print at the bottom.