There is a post here in this forum with a link to another forum where was a disscusion of some different methods (included the apple one) to do a clean nicotine extraction, at the end the OP of that thread on that forum found a method to get a very pure nicotine, I'm going to search that post but it will be a little hard to find it.
DIY e-liquid and nicotine extract method
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Ok, here is the link, it will be better if you read the whole thread:
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How do you get the nicotine out of the applejuice?
mmmmmmm........ tomacco!
The Simpsons Archive: Simpson Fan Grows Tomacco (The Springfield Times)
mmmmmmm........ tomacco!
The Simpsons Archive: Simpson Fan Grows Tomacco (The Springfield Times)
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um I think the patch idea is sound, I think if left for 24 hours on a damp sponge, you pretty much got it.
just said it would take the glue out, scrape the red phosphouros of the striker pad on a matchbook "rinse" it with acetone, the glue goes to the acetone, i dont know about the rest..
When I was in High School I decided to buy a blow gun with a friend of mine. We did so and along with the blow gun came darts and some instructions on making poisons to coat the darts for hunting. One of them was nicotine sulphate. The procedure was as follows.
Take your tobacco we used a bunch of packs of Marlboro at the time.
Place in water and boil it.
Once boiled sufficiently don't remember the time instructions gave you were to filter it.
We used a coffee filter.
After filtration one was to continue to boil it to bring it down to a gooey substance.
And that was supposed to render nicotine sulphate.
The next thing was to add a bit of toothpaste to the goop.
This enables one to place the tip of the dart in the pasted and let it dry so that it did not come off the end of dart.
The darts were made of piano wire.
It cautioned one to make sure one does not inhale and bring dart into mouth prior to blowing dart out of gun lest one perish and meet St Peter. LOL
Anywho my buddy took these darts and just skinned a bird with one.
The bird went into spasmodic convulsions pretty much instantly and then died.
Why did I share this because it shows just how deadly this stuff can be when not handled properly and at potent levels just what it can do.
By the way I am new to this forum and am awaiting 14 oz of the magic fluid so I can flush me tobacco down the drain.
Take care now . . .
Take your tobacco we used a bunch of packs of Marlboro at the time.
Place in water and boil it.
Once boiled sufficiently don't remember the time instructions gave you were to filter it.
We used a coffee filter.
After filtration one was to continue to boil it to bring it down to a gooey substance.
And that was supposed to render nicotine sulphate.
The next thing was to add a bit of toothpaste to the goop.
This enables one to place the tip of the dart in the pasted and let it dry so that it did not come off the end of dart.
The darts were made of piano wire.
It cautioned one to make sure one does not inhale and bring dart into mouth prior to blowing dart out of gun lest one perish and meet St Peter. LOL
Anywho my buddy took these darts and just skinned a bird with one.
The bird went into spasmodic convulsions pretty much instantly and then died.
Why did I share this because it shows just how deadly this stuff can be when not handled properly and at potent levels just what it can do.
By the way I am new to this forum and am awaiting 14 oz of the magic fluid so I can flush me tobacco down the drain.
Take care now . . .
I've done the extraction from the sciencemadness forum. It's involved, but if you know what you're doing and have the equipment, it's well worth it. I got 2g of nicotine from 6oz rolling tobacco. That oughta hold me for a while.
There's a lot of talk around here about the toxicity of nicotine. The LD50 (dose which has a 50% chance of killing you) of nicotine is about 50mg. That's ~4 drops of the pure stuff. Note that only half of what you get on your skin can absorb, so that's more like 8 drops in reality. Just wash it off if you spill it on yourself and you should be fine. It's water-soluble so unless it's dissolved in oil, don't bother with soap. If you do absorb a harmful dose, there is an antidote: atropine. This is also the antidote to VX nerve gas, oddly enough. I think hospitals have this, but I'm not sure.
One thing's been bothering me: carcinogens. Most of the carcinogens in tobacco are TSNAs, tobacco-specific nitrosamines. These are formed during the fermentation, curing, and burning of tobacco. I think these will come over with any extraction process you use because they are structurally very similar to nicotine. I haven't found a way of getting them out of the final product, so I think it may be best to start any extraction with raw, uncured tobacco. Unfortunately, I have yet to find a source. Does anyone know of any?
There's a lot of talk around here about the toxicity of nicotine. The LD50 (dose which has a 50% chance of killing you) of nicotine is about 50mg. That's ~4 drops of the pure stuff. Note that only half of what you get on your skin can absorb, so that's more like 8 drops in reality. Just wash it off if you spill it on yourself and you should be fine. It's water-soluble so unless it's dissolved in oil, don't bother with soap. If you do absorb a harmful dose, there is an antidote: atropine. This is also the antidote to VX nerve gas, oddly enough. I think hospitals have this, but I'm not sure.
One thing's been bothering me: carcinogens. Most of the carcinogens in tobacco are TSNAs, tobacco-specific nitrosamines. These are formed during the fermentation, curing, and burning of tobacco. I think these will come over with any extraction process you use because they are structurally very similar to nicotine. I haven't found a way of getting them out of the final product, so I think it may be best to start any extraction with raw, uncured tobacco. Unfortunately, I have yet to find a source. Does anyone know of any?
A correction: 50mg is about 3 drops of nicotine, making the LD50 about 6 on the skin. If I remember correctly, I measured a drop of nicotine to be ~15uL. I should note that being an organic chemist and being used to working with deadly toxins while still half asleep in the morning, I consider relatively safe what most people would consider lethal. Take my safety assessments with a grain of salt.
Since cigarettes only deliver 10% of their nicotine, a chemical extraction will give you 10x the nicotine with the same amount of TSNAs, if not lower. (Some are produced during burning.) So by not smoking, you get ~10% of the carcinogenic TSNAs for the same amount of nicotine. Not to mention all of the other carcinogenic combustion products you avoid.
Since cigarettes only deliver 10% of their nicotine, a chemical extraction will give you 10x the nicotine with the same amount of TSNAs, if not lower. (Some are produced during burning.) So by not smoking, you get ~10% of the carcinogenic TSNAs for the same amount of nicotine. Not to mention all of the other carcinogenic combustion products you avoid.
I've been reading up on the various methods of nicotine extraction from processed tobacco (cigarettes, dip, etc.) and unprocessed tobacco (leaves direct from plant, etc.)
From those readings I've come across the consensus that Nicotine is soluble in both water and alcohols.
I've done a number of experiments extracting Hydrogen from water and alcohol(s) and I had a "Well, that might work..." moment.
My Hypothesis is that since both Water and Ethanol (for example) are prime candidates to the separation of hydrogen and oxygen by Electrolysis (alcohol moreso), that this might be a valuable way to extract nicotine.
My theory is that by soaking tobacco (processed or natural) a water and/or alcohol solution, the nicotine will be extracted. Except now, you're left with a nicotine and water solution that is not readily vape-able. Upon the addition of a salt (such as baking soda), the solution is ready for electrolysis. Your Cathode and anode would need to be unreactive with the salt and electrolysis process, so platinum contacts would probably needed. The next step would be to run DC current (of what voltage/amperage is best is up to speculation) through the solution to start the separation of H and O, what you'd be left with would be a solution of baking soda and nicotine. (However, I have read texts that say that Baking soda might turn nicotine into a less toxic form of nicotine known as nornicotine, whether or not it has the same physiological effects is unknown to me). How do you get rid of the baking soda? Add vinegar, at the appropriate stoicheometric ratio to turn the mixture into Carbon dioxide and water.
Granted, this will kind of be counter-intuitive, in that why would you reintroduce water when you just spent a lot of time trying to get rid of it, but the amount of water will be negligible and you'll be left with (in theory) relatively pure nicotine (provided you have a way to filter out all the other undesireble soluables and insoluables).
Possible problems: I don't know if electrolysis will destroy the nicotine. I don't know the effect of Sodium Bicaronate (Baking soda) is on nicotine. Vinegar is already a part of standard eliquid, so I think we can rule this out as detrimental. The solution will heat up during the electrolysis process, which will cause the process to go slower (more resistance), but also might destroy the nicotine. It may be necessary to keep the solution cool.
Variables: Ethanol or Water or some ratio of both for a soaking solution. Alcohol will break apart from electrolysis faster, but might strip more from the leaves/tobacco than desired. The type of tobacco plays an important role in the amount you get, a Leaf of Nicotiana rustica would probably be a good place to start vs standard North American tobacco with less than a third the nicotine content.
Thoughts?
From those readings I've come across the consensus that Nicotine is soluble in both water and alcohols.
I've done a number of experiments extracting Hydrogen from water and alcohol(s) and I had a "Well, that might work..." moment.
My Hypothesis is that since both Water and Ethanol (for example) are prime candidates to the separation of hydrogen and oxygen by Electrolysis (alcohol moreso), that this might be a valuable way to extract nicotine.
My theory is that by soaking tobacco (processed or natural) a water and/or alcohol solution, the nicotine will be extracted. Except now, you're left with a nicotine and water solution that is not readily vape-able. Upon the addition of a salt (such as baking soda), the solution is ready for electrolysis. Your Cathode and anode would need to be unreactive with the salt and electrolysis process, so platinum contacts would probably needed. The next step would be to run DC current (of what voltage/amperage is best is up to speculation) through the solution to start the separation of H and O, what you'd be left with would be a solution of baking soda and nicotine. (However, I have read texts that say that Baking soda might turn nicotine into a less toxic form of nicotine known as nornicotine, whether or not it has the same physiological effects is unknown to me). How do you get rid of the baking soda? Add vinegar, at the appropriate stoicheometric ratio to turn the mixture into Carbon dioxide and water.
Granted, this will kind of be counter-intuitive, in that why would you reintroduce water when you just spent a lot of time trying to get rid of it, but the amount of water will be negligible and you'll be left with (in theory) relatively pure nicotine (provided you have a way to filter out all the other undesireble soluables and insoluables).
Possible problems: I don't know if electrolysis will destroy the nicotine. I don't know the effect of Sodium Bicaronate (Baking soda) is on nicotine. Vinegar is already a part of standard eliquid, so I think we can rule this out as detrimental. The solution will heat up during the electrolysis process, which will cause the process to go slower (more resistance), but also might destroy the nicotine. It may be necessary to keep the solution cool.
Variables: Ethanol or Water or some ratio of both for a soaking solution. Alcohol will break apart from electrolysis faster, but might strip more from the leaves/tobacco than desired. The type of tobacco plays an important role in the amount you get, a Leaf of Nicotiana rustica would probably be a good place to start vs standard North American tobacco with less than a third the nicotine content.
Thoughts?
This may sound stupid.. but why not just boil it off?
Nicotine doesn't boil until well over 100C.
I also heard somewhere in the forum, that if you soak tobacco in ethanol, a greasy slick will form on top, and that this is relativley pure nicotine. You could just siphon it off with a syringe. I believe ethanol is soluble in PG, so you could just mix this in with your PG as a carrier.
Also, there's speculation that nicotine is not directly soluble in PG, so you would need some amount of water as a carrier.
Nicotine doesn't boil until well over 100C.
I also heard somewhere in the forum, that if you soak tobacco in ethanol, a greasy slick will form on top, and that this is relativley pure nicotine. You could just siphon it off with a syringe. I believe ethanol is soluble in PG, so you could just mix this in with your PG as a carrier.
Also, there's speculation that nicotine is not directly soluble in PG, so you would need some amount of water as a carrier.
I was thinking of that as well, however, nicotine doesn't boil until 247 Celsius (According to MSDS sheets). Theoretically, if you used a water bath (baine-marie) to heat the solution, you could maintain a 100C heating temperature during the whole process. However most MSDS sheets for nicotine say that flash point is 95 C closed container, 101 C open. The boiling point of water is too close and you'd probably boil it all off. Electrolysis doesn't need to heat the solution up to that temperature in order to get the water out.
One MSDS sheet I read described how the extraction was obtain as "By distilling tobacco with milk of lime and extracting with ether."
...correction, Flash point is the lowest temperature it can combust with air provided it has an ignition source, hmmmmm.
From the discussion at Welcome to Sciencemadness Dot Org , I read one interesting possibility for this that the average person could try at home with proper safty measures and little lab experience. Here is what was suggested from the thread, page 3, towards the bottom...
I'm going to try this experiment as it requries none of the expencive set up, chemicals and expensive degree to make it happen. In my experiment I will use alcohol instead of water as it is said to desolve the nic better, along with a little vinagar or lime juice to bring up the ph to make it more potent and a dash of baking soda to help keep the nic from disapating over the marinating time. Also, I will not boil the tobacco as this would just lead to nic loss. It will be more like making tea, where I will bring the liquid to a boil, add the tobacco and remove from heat before covering the apple. What I need to work out is quantities.
To completly submerge and apple, I will need roughly 2 1/2 cup of liquid in a rather slender container. Or I could go for a more conentrated effort and cut the apple in half, use less liquid, while exposing more surface area of the apple to the liquid. If I do that, I could use 1 1/2 cups of alcohol. But how much vinagar and how much soda to use to create the proper ph levels?
Also, any suggestions to the amount of tobacco that would yeild a high precentage rate for this? There may still need to be a distillation proccess after this to remove the salts/sugars from the juice, and if anyone else is thinking of duplicating this, remove the apple seeds before blending. They have arsinic in them.
Also are there any other things to think of before trying this? I'm open to any suggestions, warning, etc..etc....Thanks in advance for any advice.
I'm going to try this experiment as it requries none of the expencive set up, chemicals and expensive degree to make it happen. In my experiment I will use alcohol instead of water as it is said to desolve the nic better, along with a little vinagar or lime juice to bring up the ph to make it more potent and a dash of baking soda to help keep the nic from disapating over the marinating time. Also, I will not boil the tobacco as this would just lead to nic loss. It will be more like making tea, where I will bring the liquid to a boil, add the tobacco and remove from heat before covering the apple. What I need to work out is quantities.
To completly submerge and apple, I will need roughly 2 1/2 cup of liquid in a rather slender container. Or I could go for a more conentrated effort and cut the apple in half, use less liquid, while exposing more surface area of the apple to the liquid. If I do that, I could use 1 1/2 cups of alcohol. But how much vinagar and how much soda to use to create the proper ph levels?
Also, any suggestions to the amount of tobacco that would yeild a high precentage rate for this? There may still need to be a distillation proccess after this to remove the salts/sugars from the juice, and if anyone else is thinking of duplicating this, remove the apple seeds before blending. They have arsinic in them.
Also are there any other things to think of before trying this? I'm open to any suggestions, warning, etc..etc....Thanks in advance for any advice.
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If you use a pressure cooker you will probably over heat the nic and destroy it. If you want to try a better method for soaking, take 100 proof vodka, and bring it the simmering point in a high walled sauce pan on an ELECTRIC STOVE. This stuff will catch on fire easily. Be careful. Remove from heat and pour into a syphon bottle with the tobacco. (A bottle to make whipped cream or soda water). Put on the top, and put in a Co2 Cartridge and let it go. This will put pressure on the liquid and the tobacco. If you look at the picture, I got this kind of color in about 3 hours trying this. The problem is the taste, smell, and color of this liquid. From here you could possibly reduce the liquid to conentrate the nic as alcohol will evaporate at a lower temp, possibly reducing nicotine loss but reducing it still wont help the overwelming tobacco harshness.
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One thing most people overlook is that the bulk of the nicotine in tobacco is in the form of a salt. Before extracting it, you have to turn it into the freebase by adding...well, a base. Sodium hydroxide (lye) works well, although that isn't as widely available as it once was. Baking soda might work too.
As for heat stability: the stuff boils at 247*C without decomposing. Raising the temperature might make it react with other stuff in the tobacco / air / apple, though. All my extractions from tobacco were cold extractions with no heat applied.
As for heat stability: the stuff boils at 247*C without decomposing. Raising the temperature might make it react with other stuff in the tobacco / air / apple, though. All my extractions from tobacco were cold extractions with no heat applied.
Chemist,
I was hoping you would come back to this thread. Please help me out.
1 1/2 Cups Alcohol (100 Proof)
???? Baking Soda
???? Vinegar (White Distilled)
???? RYO Tobacco
1 Apple
Can you fill in any of the blanks for me? Or offer any other suggestions? Would it be better to give the mixture a day or two with the just the tobacco and other ingredients to pull out the nic before adding the apple?
Thanks in advance for any help.
I was hoping you would come back to this thread. Please help me out.
1 1/2 Cups Alcohol (100 Proof)
???? Baking Soda
???? Vinegar (White Distilled)
???? RYO Tobacco
1 Apple
Can you fill in any of the blanks for me? Or offer any other suggestions? Would it be better to give the mixture a day or two with the just the tobacco and other ingredients to pull out the nic before adding the apple?
Thanks in advance for any help.
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