DIY e-liquid and nicotine extract method

[mcastles]

Hello!

I thought I would post this because I think I have thought of a great method for making really good e-liquid. A while ago I was curious of ways to extract nicotine from tobacco, but I found that a lot of people where very cautious of doing that sort of thing. So eventually I did find a way, safe in doing so? Most likely yes! But to a certain degree. What I found out Googling different ways of doing it, I found out just adding plain water to tobacco would make a sort of liquid tobacco solution.


For 24 hours I had soaked water in natural Canadian tobacco (I did some research and found that most Canadian tobacco is additive free which was good to find out.) in a salt shaker and then I squeezed out the solution out
of the salt shaker and using a coffee filter, filtered out all of the liquid.
I ended up with 25 ml of tobacco liquid extract.

I was a little scared handling it since nicotine is a dangerous substance I even heard that I could die even touching pure nicotine.

So yes I was a brave boy and went with my instincts that the solution was not going to be concentrated enough to do harm to me, the conclusion was I did spill some of the extract on my hands and did not harm me in any way.

The solution was very black and that was from about 10 cigarettes of tobacco filled to the top in a salt shaker filled with water to the top soaked
for 24 hours. (though if someone where to try this I wouldn't go more than 24 hours since the longer the water is soaking in the tobacco it would make a much more concentrated solution of nicotine.

So how did it taste? was there a hit?

The taste was not a tobacco taste, it tasted like something dry.
The nicotine hit? It was and seemed to be the same as a normal cigarette.
But I just smoked a real cigarette before I inhaled from the e-smoke, I could
have been experiencing the after effects of the real one.

I did not have any vegetable glycerin but I did order from Ebay a two ounce bottle of it for it to have simulated smoke, that I plan to test again and mix the glycerin with my 25 ml tobacco extract, I don't know what would be a good measurement, maybe 25 ml of the tobacco extract and 10 ml of vegetable glycerin, I think I might add a couple drops of vanilla extract to the mix.

Hopefully! When I receive the rest of ingredients in the mail and then mix it I will have a cheap and affordable way of a great DIY e-liquid.

So, stay tuned! It may be a week or so when I get the stuff in the mail.
I will post the conclusion of this experiment in this thread within that time!

Cheers!

 

[Denni]

There are several tips for soaking/boiling tobacco in the DIY e-liquid forum, but the problem with all of these is that it's impossible to tell how much nicotine is in the finished product. To my knowledge thee is no way of easily assessing that.

I'm probably going to experiment anyway at some stage. Good point that Canadian tobacco is additive-free mcastles, most cigarette tobacco (and some pipe tobacco) contains tons of additives which are good for neither lungs nor atomisers

 

[mcastles]

Yea, I too have seen other ways explained of extracting nicotine in this forum. One way explained was a pretty sure way I think it was using alcohol
and some kind of paper, I myself wouldn't go that rout, I don't know enough
to risk extracting nicotine like that, since the outcome would be to handle pure nicotine.. From what I have read, it relies on the amount of time the mix is soaked, which makes sense because the longer it soaked the more the ingredients of the tobacco is released time after time.

I was more sure about just soaking it in water using just 10 cigarettes which I believed cut my exposer to nicotine lower.

I hope my way works. I would end up saving a lot of money.

 

[mcastles]

Well It's been more than a week since I last posted. But Here is an update.
I finally got some vegetable glycerin in the mail a couple days ago.
The nicotine extract I made was carefully kept in the fridge for the remaining period until I was able to get the last two ingredients (Vegetable Glycerin and some Vanilla extract)

What I did was got all the ingredients and decided how much of each I should add. I thought about a half an ounce of the tabacco liquid extract and half an ounce of vegetable glycerin and finally I thought one quarter of an ounce of vanilla extract.

The results?

1.It did have a hint of vanilla flavor per drag
2.lots of simulated smoke there was
3.As for the nicotine high? Hmm, it was not all
that great.. Unfortunately. Because, out of
all honesty I don't know if I had one..LoL
I might have felt something or it could have just
been something else..Not sure at all

And to be more honest, since I am not a certified
chemist or what not.. I was a little afraid of this
experiment, even though I thought absorbing tobacco
in water would be safe enough and do the trick.

So.. I suppose the right word to use for this experiment
is - Inconclusive.

But I have not used the e-liquid all that much, maybe I
will know more about it the more I smoke it over time
and notice hopefully a nicotine "high" so to speak.

:/

 

[mcastles]

I have been reading a little about what people have said about nicotine extraction.
The number one thing everyone seems to be talking about is "how much".
I can think of one way of determining how much nicotine is extracted for example
"soaking it in water".

Here's my calculations:

10 cigarettes (additive free tobacco) soaking in approx 1.5 ounces of water
for 24 hours in my case I used a small salt shaker for the process.
If you think about it I used 10 cigarette tobacco in approx 1.5 ounces
of water soaking for 24 hours (I can think that within the 24 hours, all
of the nicotine is out of the plant and in the water by that time), since
the atomizer evaporates the final tobacco extract (approx 25 ml) I can
imagine most likely 1/10 of 1ml of the tobacco liquid extract is then air
born once it heats up. So if 25 ml of tobacco extract and I have 1/10 of
1ml multiplied by 25 ml is 250 multiplied by 25 ml: thats over 6000 puffs
(much less than 10 real cigarettes).

Plus! If I were to add more ingredients: Another 25 ml of vegetable glycerin
and 12 ml of vanilla extract it would increase the amount of puffs and lessen
the nicotine intake per drag.

I think this kind calculation gives a general idea how much nicotine is in each puff
of this experiment..

Just a ball park figure.

 

[Tetsab]

To be honest I'd be very careful, I'm not at all sure that you can equate the amount of nicotine you'd get from smoking a cigarette to the amount you would extract by soaking it.

I can't quote a source, but quite a few years ago I was told that if you ATE a pack of cigarettes instead of smoking them it was poisonous enough to kill you or at least make you very sick indeed.

Just my fourpence worth (inflation, donchaknow) as I'd LOVE to find out about a reliable, safe and not-too-messy way of making my own!

 

[mcastles]

Yea.. I was care full. I wouldn't want anyone to condone this sort of thing.
My risk was a bit less risky because I think I researched it well and gave it a good good
thought about it. Equating hmm.. Don't know either..lol But I did go though with it.. :/

 

[stephensea]

I believe that the correct (and perhaps the only accurate) way to measure the volume/density/strength of the nicotine in e-liquid produced by DIY'ers is the same as the method used by the labs testing the conventional cigarettes for RJ, Philp, et.

You would need to measure the nicotine content present in the "end product", which is SMOKE for conventional tobacco products and VAPOR for e-Cig products.

Parts Per Million (ppm) is likely to be a reasonable measure criteria.

The results are noted and used to manipulate and make adjustments between the raw material (tobacco, treated with water, chemicals, flavorings or whatever) and the "end product" (SMOKE or VAPOR respectively)

Most University labs are equipped with Spectrum Analyzers and/or other instruments that can determine these numbers for you. You might try approaching the dean or dept. head and offering your assistance and participation for a "research project" (student credits for enrollees???) in exchange for the data you seek.

Just a thought -

Stephen

 

[rlorange]

Hello just a quick note but I think you will like!

Nicotine patches have 140mg of nicotine in them which is easily extracted with a little alcohol or pure acetone (which will all evaporate later)

Simply soak a patch in acteone and let evaporate in eye dropper bottle you will be left with pure nicotine crystals (and maybe some glue, have to work out how to get rid of that!)

then add glycerine and flavour to the bottle to disolve. No carcinogenic tobacco extract stuff, measured dose, one patch makes a few mls.

hmmmmmm

 

[katink]

Hello just a quick note but I think you will like!

Nicotine patches have 140mg of nicotine in them which is easily extracted with a little alcohol or pure acetone (which will all evaporate later)

Simply soak a patch in acteone and let evaporate in eye dropper bottle you will be left with pure nicotine crystals (and maybe some glue, have to work out how to get rid of that!)

then add glycerine and flavour to the bottle to disolve. No carcinogenic tobacco extract stuff, measured dose, one patch makes a few mls.

hmmmmmm

Which nicotine patches (strength of them how they are sold) would that be please?

 

[Ringo*]

Has anyone else thought of this? It sounds like a pretty clever way of dealing with the "concentration of nicotine" issue...

 

[katink]

Perhaps interesting in very dire times... because nicotine patches are not cheap by any standard (at least not over here) so it would be as if they had taxed the liquid into a tenfold price, if you would use those patches as standard way of getting nicotine together, I suspect.

 

[rlorange]

Get the strongest patches which supply 24mg I think over 24 hours. The 16 hour patches are almost identical except that you take them off before bed. Can't believ they market them as different how stupid do they think we are? equally why spend the same for a weaker patch when you can just cut the stronger one in half? Are people really that stupid?...

Anyway back to the topic. I originally heard this from the erowid files and from a chemistry student friend of mine who quite stupidly used to do this and then soak marijuana in it!

If you buy a patch you will see that even though it delivers 16-24mg of nicotine over the day through the skin there is actually much more in the patch which never makes it, 140mg per patch if I recall. Nicotine is very water soluble and even more so in alcohol so I think high-proof vodka might do the trick! I would find a sealed jar which will fit the patches lying flat in on the bottom and use very little alcohol (95% herbal tincture alcohol would be ideal).

I haven't tried it so maybe the glue would dissolve if so an easy way to remove it is to plug a syringe with cotton wool and then pour in the extract use the plunger to squeeze it through. Much less wasteful than filter paper and effective method to filter solutions.

True patches aren't cheap BUT for a weeks supply of 7, which costs around $20 in Australia, you should get 800+ mg of nicotine. That is enough to make 40mls of e -liquid at 20mg strength which I think is reasonable and would be cheaper if you purchase them in bulk.

Advantages are: Easy to do, known dosage of pure nicotine and the absence of the other stuff you would get from tobacco much of which is known to be toxic or cancerous.

Remember 800mg of nicotine dissolved in a few ml of alcohol is VERY DANGEROUS stuff, a few drops on your skin will make you very ill in a few minutes.

It IS safe however if done with care and the best part is with no fuss all you would have to do is evaporate most of the alcohol (leave a little) and simply add your Glycerin and flavour if you wish. the most dangerous part would be filtering which may not be necessary.

This method is my plan B if e liquid is banned from personal import in Australia. The government has used nicotines status as a shedual 7 poison to ban its sale in e cigarette liquid form within the borders. They will never be able to ban the device itself nor the nicotine free liquid so I can always add my own extracted Nicotine to commercial ncotine free e liquid or my own concoction.

Hope this helps, without a proper acid base extraction and proper chemistry techniques (albeit relativly simple ones) You are going to get a lot of other tobacco plant crap in with your extract, a straight liquid extract will get you lots of nicotine but also a lot of plant waxes etc which will not be good for you nor your atomizers. Even a crude acid/base extract will still leave residues which I would not want to be vaping any more that crude plant residues.

The best simple extract would be with plain water and use lots of tobacco leaf, raw and untreated. Soaking in plain cold water for days will extract the nicotine very preferentially and leave much of the plant reins behind BUT of course you don't know how much nicotine you have left. Also you have to reduce the volume a large ammount which with water is a problem because you cant heat it or you will lose your volatile nicotine. Nor can you use the sun to evaporate it beacuse light will destroy the nicotine.

A straight alcohol extract will be more efficient but also disolve more stuff along with the nicotine and the e juice would probably taste awfull!

Being so toxic and potent I don't think there is a safe and easy bedroom method to ectract nicotine from tobacco to a purity need for effective e juice . The patch extraction method is the only one I would attmept and should work very well.

Of course the easiest method by far is to make friends with a chemist and source some pure nicotine solution in alcohol. Enough probably to make a litre of juice! Or kill a Blue Whale!

-Rohan

 

[katink]

Thanks for your good explanation rlorange. I don't think we have such strong patches over here (last I looked the max you could get was 10 or so mg...). But they might be well findable on the internet from another european country, if needed; and indeed this seems a relatively safe way while knowing the result. So if worst scenario unfolds... this knowledge will be great to have.

And I can certainly imagine it to be a good source for you over in australia, if the gateways from overseas get closed!

 

[rlorange]

Well even a 10mg patch would still have a 100 or so mg of actual nicotine in it of which only 10mg is absorbed over time.

Definitely my plan B but I have a feeling that the government will not get away with an outright ban. A class action law suit would be a civil law lawyers dream. The government is stretching credibility real thin by allowing tobacco which has nicotine along with many other poisons to be sold, AND tax it exorbitantly. Not to mention that Nicotine replacement therapy is available without a prescription even from supermarkets now and as I have discussed has a whopping great dose per patch, enough to kill!

e liquid is not different to these and has no more or less potential for harm. Banning e cigarettes could be legally argued is unlawful in light of this, especially since the ban is denying addicted smokers probably the best alternative and means to quit smoking thus saving their life.

From what I hear, all that it would need to be liquid is the appropriate warnings and a child proof bottle... probably a good idea.

Does anybody know the legalities involved with purchasing nictoine from a chemical supplier?

 

[Lithium1330]

Does anybody know the legalities involved with purchasing nictoine from a chemical supplier?

If this is possible, then will be better to purchase a formulation of PG+nicotine instead of pure nicotine, the flavoring can be made easily, in Polonia someone purchased this formulation from a local lab, I'm looking forward for some chemical supplier here in Mexico willing to make the formula, maybe it can be done in the US too, time for contact chemical suppliers in your area!

 

[jbbishop]

I posted a simple and effective method for nicotine extraction and some discussion here:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/1135-extracting-nicotine-tobacco-4.html

The author of this discussion: Sciencemadness Discussion Board seems to believe that the gum in the patches is extremely difficult to deal with and remove, and seemingly regards the patches as being too expensive to extract from. Have you actually tried this?

Where do you find the documentation that declares the actual amount of nicotine that is contained in a patch, and why are you suggesting people can safely use cut patches when it says on the package to avoid this?

You can buy laboratory grade nicotine (at least here in the US). There are multiple US vendors which should ship it as long as you have a business address to send it to. http://store.galladechem.com/shared/Sto ... oducts.asp They charge $650 for 500mg. Expensive hazmat shipping charges apply. The author of the discussion on the sciencemadness forum suggests that you might be regarded as a terrorist if you try to order it anyway. The fact sheets for even the 40% solution make it clear that a person needs a HAZMAT suit to handle it.

 

[TribbleTrouble]

Another good source of known quantities of Nic is the carts for the Nicotrol Inhailer. Each cart contains 10 mg of Nic (4mg delivered when using the Inhailer). If you pop out the white inserts in the carts and soak them in Everclear (Pure Grain Alcohol), you can extract the Nic without any worry of glue like with the patches. I have made a few batches, and it seems to work pretty good. Has anyone else tried this?

 

[Programmer]

Another good source of known quantities of Nic is the carts for the Nicotrol Inhailer. Each cart contains 10 mg of Nic (4mg delivered when using the Inhailer).

A whole Nicotrol cart contains only 10mg total??? So hrmm to make a 30mL bottle of 36mg liquid I would need 108 of these little Nicotrol carts?? Wow I'm not sure how much those little guys cost but that's gotta be a chunk o' change. Not to mention that's a lot of soaking!

 

[TribbleTrouble]

A whole Nicotrol cart contains only 10mg total??? So hrmm to make a 30mL bottle of 36mg liquid I would need 108 of these little Nicotrol carts?? Wow I'm not sure how much those little guys cost but that's gotta be a chunk o' change. Not to mention that's a lot of soaking!

I used 20 cart inserts (200 mg), and reduced the solution to about 10 ml. Then I added 20 ml of VG and Vanilla extract to make 30 ml. That made a solution at about 6-7 mg of Nic per ml. It was weak, but it worked. If you buy just the carts from Canada, they are a little cheaper. I have also thought about making a inhailer cart/tobacco extract hybrid, but I haven't done that yet.