DIY Ejuice Q's

[IDJoel]

That’s exactly the kind I have and I don’t think it’ll last long. It weakens very quickly after putting it into my mix. It comes back when I bring it out but I’m not impressed.

If you get to the point you want to replace it; several of us use the Badger 121 Paint Mixer. (The link is who I bought mine through.) It has a blade design to mix thoroughly while minimizing the introduction of air. I've used mine for about a year and a half now, holding up fine, and only had to replace the 2 AA batteries once. It can seem a bit undersized, for batches larger than 100mL, but that is not a deal breaker for me (and I like that it isn't trying to turn all my mixes into whipped cream).

 

[NatashaTMT]

If you get to the point you want to replace it; several of us use the Badger 121 Paint Mixer. (The link is who I bought mine through.) It has a blade design to mix thoroughly while minimizing the introduction of air. I've used mine for about a year and a half now, holding up fine, and only had to replace the 2 AA batteries once. It can seem a bit undersized, for batches larger than 100mL, but that is not a deal breaker for me (and I like that it isn't trying to turn all my mixes into whipped cream).

Too perfect, thanks! I actually ordered one similar to the one I have now over a month ago. When I tracked and saw it was over another month out, assuming the 1st I’d ordered could be a back up, I ordered another that reached me in 3 days. So now I have another insufficient mixer otw lol. Guess I could put it in the kitchen and actually use it for intended use as coffee is another semi-addiction of mine.
So I have another area in which I’m having difficulty. I’m trying to perfect a “sour blue razz candy w/ notes of sweet berries” recipe. I can’t get the malic right to save my life atm. I started lower at .5%, then 1, then 3... now I’m at 6% and today it dawned on me that maybe malic isn’t the right ingredient I’m looking for to “bring the sour.” Maybe I should also add ascorbic acid or drop malic and only ascorbic? I don’t have lemon or citric fruit flavors in the recipe. So I don’t think there’d be much, if any, ascorbic already. Any suggestions?

Here’s what I’m working with if that helps. These percentages look high but I started lower and brought them up. I’m thinking of dropping hard candy and sucra altogether and go from there. I think I’m going to need to order different main berries to get the flavor I’m looking for but for now I’d like to focus on getting the sour right in the recipe I’ve already mixed. I’m sure this will be one of many learning experiences on my DIY journey. Thanks in advance!

6% Malic Acid 15% (NN)
6% Hard Candy (FW)
5% Blueberry (RF-SC)
3% Blueberry Jam (CAP)
5% Raspberry (RF-SC)
3% Raspberry (PUR)
1% Forest Fruit (FA)
1.5% Yumberry (RF-SC)
1% Pomegranate (FA)
2% Sucralose (NN)

 

[dc99]

IMO drop the sweetner. Sweet and sour dont work well together.

 

[NatashaTMT]

IMO drop the sweetner. Sweet and sour dont work well together.

Thanks! Any suggestions on bringing the sour?

 

[IDJoel]

I’m trying to perfect a “sour blue razz candy w/ notes of sweet berries” recipe. I can’t get the malic right to save my life atm. I started lower at .5%, then 1, then 3... now I’m at 6% and today it dawned on me that maybe malic isn’t the right ingredient I’m looking for to “bring the sour.” Maybe I should also add ascorbic acid or drop malic and only ascorbic? I don’t have lemon or citric fruit flavors. So I don’t think there’d be much if any ascorbic already. Any suggestions?

I have not (to my knowledge) used ascorbic acid; so I can't offer any experience. The first thing that comes to my mind is LorAnn's Tart & Sour (uses citric acid, sodium citrate, and malic acid)(start at 2%). You often can find it locally. I have seen it here in Boise in craft stores like Michael's, Hobby Lobby, and Joann's. Even Walmart was carrying it. Look in the bakery or cake decorating areas.

Malic acid (TFA-Sour 20% malic acid) I have never used above 1%. That could just be my own preference.

Here’s what I’m working with if that helps. These percentages look high but I started lower and brought them up. I’m thinking of dropping hard candy and sucra altogether and go from there. I think I’m going to need to order different main berries to get the flavor I’m looking for but for now I’d like to focus on getting the malic right in the recipe I’ve already mixed. I’m sure this will be one of many learning experiences on my DIY journey. Thanks in advance!

6% Malic Acid (NN)
6% Hard Candy (FW)
5% Blueberry (RF-SC)
3% Blueberry Jam (CAP)
5% Raspberry (RF-SC)
3% Raspberry (PUR)
1% Forest Fruit (FA)
1.5% Yumberry (RF-SC)
1% Pomegranate (FA)
2% Sucralose (NN)

I had to laugh when I read your ingredient list; with over 300 different concentrates in my current stash, your recipe contains only one that I own... FA-Forest Fruit. So, please keep in mind, everything I am say going forward, is nothing more than wild-buttocked guessing.

Initial thoughts:
(offered with zero judgement, teasing, or condemnation)

• Waaay over-flavored. You have 21.5% flavoring before you add your 12% of malic and hard candy.
  
• It also looks way too "busy." Blue raspberry is blueberry and raspberry... period. I am not sure what Forest Fruit, Yumberry, and Pomegranate are doing there. (I understand you said "... w/ notes of sweet berries." and you are likely going for those additional berry notes; but they are just muddying the overall profile).

What to do:

• My first thought is the "easy way out." One Stop DIY Shop makes a very decent Blue Raspberry Slush one-shot, that many find quite good. Start with that as your base; and gently tweak to your preference.
• Or, you can research existing recipes. I look for recipes that have as many positive user feedback (I differentiate users as those who have actually mixed the recipe vs. those who merely say things like "looks good," or "I'll have to try this.") as I can find. Then, using that as a starting point, I will tweak to meet my palate. What is too much, to little, not necessary, or missing?
  
• Or, take this effort as a learning experience and start over. (I think there are too many variables, to take what you currently have, and make anything useful).

How I generally, kinda-sorta, build a recipe from the ground up:
(please note that I am obsessive to a fault. This may be too tedious for you, or anyone else. I can only speak to how I do it.)

• Get a well-defined idea of what I want the end result to be like. For me, this means writing it out. What are the most important things I want? What do I want for the main/base note? What secondary/accent notes might be nice.
• Create in steps, or "layers." Ideally, I have tried the ingredients as stand-alones (single flavor vapes), and understand what percentages they work best for me.

So, if we use your “sour blue razz candy w/ notes of sweet berries” recipe, as our example, It might go something like this:

I want a hard candy, with a blue-raz flavor profile. Raspberry is most important; with a significant blueberry right behind. I want a strong "sour" note that is like I get from sour gummies.

So, now that I look at this, I see that raspberry is the foundation everything else is going to be built on. If the raspberry isn't right... nothing else will be. This is where I will start.

I will look at all the raspberry concentrate notes, and pick the one that best fits my need. If I don't have any notes; I will start doing some single flavor testing. This is some small (2mL) mixes, at various percentages, that are based on what research I have been able to find (ELR, AllTheFlavors, vendor sites that post customer comments). As I am doing these initial samplings, I am noting (in writing) how the flavor(s) are tasting to me (fresh, candy, jam, Nestle Quik, artificial, fake, perfumey, incense, green/unripe, etc.).

Once I find the "best" percentage for me, I ask myself "Does this have everything I need/want for my recipe I am building (thinking of the base note only)?" Is it right? It may be "good" but not "right" for the recipe. Is it complete? It might be the right one for the recipe; but it is lacking something. In this case I might look to combining two raspberries... that means a second round of taste testing.

Okay, I have the raspberry figured out. I have the start of my recipe:
Raspberry A 6%
Raspberry B 2%

Now I switch my focus to the blueberry. Repeat the same process I used for the raspberry for the blueberry. The process leads me to a profile of Blueberry A will work. I like it (as a stand-alone) "best" at 4%.

Next I have to figure out how to use the raspberries, and blueberry, together. The common inclination is to use both at full strength; but that is not often best. Instead I will start lower. My thinking might be something like this: I like my raspberry blend at 8% (by itself), and the blueberry at 4% (by itself), and I want basically a blend of the two. So lets start with half of each.
First trial:
Raspberry A 3%
Raspberry B 1%
Blueberry A 2%
Mix up a small batch (again; 2mL is enough, though slightly larger may make measuring easier. I wouldn't go much above 5mL just to conserve ingredients) of this, shake the stuffings out of it, and take a vape taste. I write down my thoughts. "Raspberry get totally lost in the blueberry."

Now I have a choice to make. I don't want to make multiple adjustments; because I then wouldn't know what is doing what. So, do I want to raise the raspberry, or lower the blueberry? The raspberry seems kind of a "weak" flavor to me; so I will start by raising it. I want to keep the 3:1 ratio that I liked; so I think I will split the difference of my original reduction. "A" went from 6% to 3%; half way in between is 4.5%. "B" went from 2% to 1%; half way in between is 1.5%.
Second trial:
Raspberry A 4.5%
Raspberry B 1.5%
Blueberry A 2%
Repeat test vaping and notes. "Better. Raspberry has now shown up to the party... still a little weak to the blueberry."

Choice time again. Raspberry has made its presence known; but blueberry is still hogging the stage. This time I think I should ramp back the blueberry. I don't want to be as drastic as I was initially; so I will
just cut it by a quarter.
Third trial:
Raspberry A 4.5%
Raspberry B 1.5%
Blueberry A 1.5%
Repeat test vaping and notes. "Raspberry is finally the star; has the candy raspberry I was hoping for. Blueberry is now a little weak... but doesn't need much."

The raspberry is good, so I leave it alone. The blueberry is weak, but the concentrate is potent, so I think I will bump it by just a tenth of a percent (0.10%). Testing time.
Fourth trial:
Raspberry A 4.5%
Raspberry B 1.5%
Blueberry A 1.6%
Repeat test vaping and notes. "Good. This is the ras/blue balance I was looking for. Seems to be missing the "brightness" I want. Try Lemon C."

Finally I have the base profile I wanted. But it needs some brightness. I have used Lemon C for this in the past with success. So, applying that knowledge, I am going to try Lemon C at 0.5% (I want its influence without tasting "lemon")
Fifth trial:
Raspberry A 4.5%
Raspberry B 1.5%
Blueberry A 1.6%
Lemon C 0.5%
Repeat test vaping and notes. "Bingo! Lemon C brightened perfectly. Perfect base for BlueRaz candy."

Yay! I have my core. Now, probably while vaping some of this base, I return to my written goal:
"I want a hard candy, with a blue-raz flavor profile. Raspberry is most important; with a significant blueberry right behind. I want a strong "sour" note that is like I get from sour gummy worms."

How does this base work? Raspberry? Check. Blueberry right behind? Check.

What is still missing? Is it candy-like enough? Not really; flavors are candy-like in flavor; but the sweet sugar character is absent. How is the sour? Nonexistent. Which is next most important' sweet or sour? That will be the next addition I focus on; using the same methodical trial and error. Then the next. Then the next.

As I said in the beginning; this can be tedious, but it is the only way I can understand, what each ingredient is bringing to the party. It can be further drawn out, if I am using ingredients that require more time to develop. This is why I don't toss the various trials created during the process. I can go back, and revisit them if needed, to see how they might have changed. And, if they have, I don't have to start from scratch.

Perhaps others will share how they create their own recipes.

 

[dc99]

Thanks! Any suggestions on bringing the sour?

Been chasing sour for quite a while but I have never found it. Even TFA sour isnt really sour to me. Its a little tart but not sour. IDJoel says he gets sour from it but I dont. Im after that sour like that white powdery coating on candy. Airheads I think. As far as I know it doesnt exist.

 

[NatashaTMT]

Although I was replying to @IDJoel & @dc99 , I’d love anyone’s advice with my “sour” issue!

 

[Fidola13]

You can buy the authentic coilmaster kit at FT or various components of it if you'd rather.

I would go to FT, go to "vape tools" and then search for "authentic coilmaster kit v-whatever." You should get some results. I got mine off amazon, it was a bit more expensive but much faster, but yes you can get one there if you so desire.

Anna

I got mine on Amazon as well. I’m glad I have it. Everything I need nice and organized in a case. Perfect imo.

 

[NatashaTMT]

I have not (to my knowledge) used ascorbic acid; so I can't offer any experience. The first thing that comes to my mind is LorAnn's Tart & Sour (uses citric acid, sodium citrate, and malic acid)(start at 2%). You often can find it locally. I have seen it here in Boise in craft stores like Michael's, Hobby Lobby, and Joann's. Even Walmart was carrying it. Look in the bakery or cake decorating areas.

Malic acid (TFA-Sour 20% malic acid) I have never used above 1%. That could just be my own preference.



I had to laugh when I read your ingredient list; with over 300 different concentrates in my current stash, your recipe contains only one that I own... FA-Forest Fruit. So, please keep in mind, everything I am say going forward, is nothing more than wild-buttocked guessing.

Initial thoughts:
(offered with zero judgement, teasing, or condemnation)

• Waaay over-flavored. You have 21.5% flavoring before you add your 12% of malic and hard candy.
  
• It also looks way too "busy." Blue raspberry is blueberry and raspberry... period. I am not sure what Forest Fruit, Yumberry, and Pomegranate are doing there. (I understand you said "... w/ notes of sweet berries." and you are likely going for those additional berry notes; but they are just muddying the overall profile).

What to do:

• My first thought is the "easy way out." One Stop DIY Shop makes a very decent Blue Raspberry Slush one-shot, that many find quite good. Start with that as your base; and gently tweak to your preference.
• Or, you can research existing recipes. I look for recipes that have as many positive user feedback (I differentiate users as those who have actually mixed the recipe vs. those who merely say things like "looks good," or "I'll have to try this.") as I can find. Then, using that as a starting point, I will tweak to meet my palate. What is too much, to little, not necessary, or missing?
  
• Or, take this effort as a learning experience and start over. (I think there are too many variables, to take what you currently have, and make anything useful).

How I generally, kinda-sorta, build a recipe from the ground up:
(please note that I am obsessive to a fault. This may be too tedious for you, or anyone else. I can only speak to how I do it.)

• Get a well-defined idea of what I want the end result to be like. For me, this means writing it out. What are the most important things I want? What do I want for the main/base note? What secondary/accent notes might be nice.
• Create in steps, or "layers." Ideally, I have tried the ingredients as stand-alones (single flavor vapes), and understand what percentages they work best for me.

So, if we use your “sour blue razz candy w/ notes of sweet berries” recipe, as our example, It might go something like this:

I want a hard candy, with a blue-raz flavor profile. Raspberry is most important; with a significant blueberry right behind. I want a strong "sour" note that is like I get from sour gummies.

So, now that I look at this, I see that raspberry is the foundation everything else is going to be built on. If the raspberry isn't right... nothing else will be. This is where I will start.

I will look at all the raspberry concentrate notes, and pick the one that best fits my need. If I don't have any notes; I will start doing some single flavor testing. This is some small (2mL) mixes, at various percentages, that are based on what research I have been able to find (ELR, AllTheFlavors, vendor sites that post customer comments). As I am doing these initial samplings, I am noting (in writing) how the flavor(s) are tasting to me (fresh, candy, jam, Nestle Quik, artificial, fake, perfumey, incense, green/unripe, etc.).

Once I find the "best" percentage for me, I ask myself "Does this have everything I need/want for my recipe I am building (thinking of the base note only)?" Is it right? It may be "good" but not "right" for the recipe. Is it complete? It might be the right one for the recipe; but it is lacking something. In this case I might look to combining two raspberries... that means a second round of taste testing.

Okay, I have the raspberry figured out. I have the start of my recipe:
Raspberry A 6%
Raspberry B 2%

Now I switch my focus to the blueberry. Repeat the same process I used for the raspberry for the blueberry. The process leads me to a profile of Blueberry A will work. I like it (as a stand-alone) "best" at 4%.

Next I have to figure out how to use the raspberries, and blueberry, together. The common inclination is to use both at full strength; but that is not often best. Instead I will start lower. My thinking might be something like this: I like my raspberry blend at 8% (by itself), and the blueberry at 4% (by itself), and I want basically a blend of the two. So lets start with half of each.
First trial:
Raspberry A 3%
Raspberry B 1%
Blueberry A 2%
Mix up a small batch (again; 2mL is enough, though slightly larger may make measuring easier. I wouldn't go much above 5mL just to conserve ingredients) of this, shake the stuffings out of it, and take a vape taste. I write down my thoughts. "Raspberry get totally lost in the blueberry."

Now I have a choice to make. I don't want to make multiple adjustments; because I then wouldn't know what is doing what. So, do I want to raise the raspberry, or lower the blueberry? The raspberry seems kind of a "weak" flavor to me; so I will start by raising it. I want to keep the 3:1 ratio that I liked; so I think I will split the difference of my original reduction. "A" went from 6% to 3%; half way in between is 4.5%. "B" went from 2% to 1%; half way in between is 1.5%.
Second trial:
Raspberry A 4.5%
Raspberry B 1.5%
Blueberry A 2%
Repeat test vaping and notes. "Better. Raspberry has now shown up to the party... still a little weak to the blueberry."

Choice time again. Raspberry has made its presence known; but blueberry is still hogging the stage. This time I think I should ramp back the blueberry. I don't want to be as drastic as I was initially; so I will
just cut it by a quarter.
Third trial:
Raspberry A 4.5%
Raspberry B 1.5%
Blueberry A 1.5%
Repeat test vaping and notes. "Raspberry is finally the star; has the candy raspberry I was hoping for. Blueberry is now a little weak... but doesn't need much."

The raspberry is good, so I leave it alone. The blueberry is weak, but the concentrate is potent, so I think I will bump it by just a tenth of a percent (0.10%). Testing time.
Fourth trial:
Raspberry A 4.5%
Raspberry B 1.5%
Blueberry A 1.6%
Repeat test vaping and notes. "Good. This is the ras/blue balance I was looking for. Seems to be missing the "brightness" I want. Try Lemon C."

Finally I have the base profile I wanted. But it needs some brightness. I have used Lemon C for this in the past with success. So, applying that knowledge, I am going to try Lemon C at 0.5% (I want its influence without tasting "lemon")
Fifth trial:
Raspberry A 4.5%
Raspberry B 1.5%
Blueberry A 1.6%
Lemon C 0.5%
Repeat test vaping and notes. "Bingo! Lemon C brightened perfectly. Perfect base for BlueRaz candy."

Yay! I have my core. Now, probably while vaping some of this base, I return to my written goal:
"I want a hard candy, with a blue-raz flavor profile. Raspberry is most important; with a significant blueberry right behind. I want a strong "sour" note that is like I get from sour gummy worms."

How does this base work? Raspberry? Check. Blueberry right behind? Check.

What is still missing? Is it candy-like enough? Not really; flavors are candy-like in flavor; but the sweet sugar character is absent. How is the sour? Nonexistent. Which is next most important' sweet or sour? That will be the next addition I focus on; using the same methodical trial and error. Then the next. Then the next.

As I said in the beginning; this can be tedious, but it is the only way I can understand, what each ingredient is bringing to the party. It can be further drawn out, if I am using ingredients that require more time to develop. This is why I don't toss the various trials created during the process. I can go back, and revisit them if needed, to see how they might have changed. And, if they have, I don't have to start from scratch.

Perhaps others will share how they create their own recipes.

I thought I did pretty well flavor testing but now I see where I’ve failed. I tested them individually but not together slowly adding, testing, adding, testing etc. Initially, the recipe had fewer ingredients. I kept adding chasing "that particular flavor” I’m chasing. The way they tasted as stand alones has completely disappeared. After reading your mixing technique I know it’s because it’s too "muddy.” I didn’t consider well how one can drown another. So this is making me think more on that. I’ve broken my nose a couple times which has caused a muted sense of smell. So I know from experience I need a little bit more flavor but this recipe has come to the point of ridiculousness. I’m wondering if you’re not right about starting over completely. Actually, I know you’re right. Also, I don’t think the brands I have are the right ones for the job at hand. Earlier today I was thinking if I could only make sour and raspberry up front it’d be right. Though now I feel it’s probably a lot easier than I’m making it and less is more in quantity of flavorings and percentages. I absolutely LOVE fresh raspberries and blueberries and they’re my favorite with that tart juiciness. One of my favourite commercial juices is blue razz candy and although I really like it I always wanted it sour. So, maybe I’ll figure it out soon. Think I’ll order some different brands and try again more in the way you’ve described. This is great though! Thanks IDJoel!

 

[NatashaTMT]

Been chasing sour for quite a while but I have never found it. Even TFA sour isnt really sour to me. Its a little tart but not sour. IDJoel says he gets sour from it but I dont. Im after that sour like that white powdery coating on candy. Airheads I think. As far as I know it doesnt exist.

Nooo! Don’t say that lol. So, can sweetener mute malic?

 

[IDJoel]

Part of the problem I think(?) with these "sour"acids is their boiling points:

Ascorbic acid: 374°F(153°C) melting point; 1,027°F(553°C) boiling point.
Citric acid: .... 307.4°F(190°C) melting point; 590°F(310°C) boiling point.
Malic acid:..... 266°F(130°C) melting point; (couldn't find) boiling point.
(source: wiki, and PubMed)

None of them "boil" at the temperatures we vape at (in/around the 400°F/204°C range). As such, I am theorizing that they don't convert to vapor well.

The only thing I can think to suggest @NatashaTMT, it to test by vaping solo (no other flavors/sweeteners to start). I'm guessing it won't be particularly exciting, and maybe even a bit unpleasant (so keep the tester sizes small), but it's the only way I can think of, to figure out how/if they will do anything for you... and at what levels.

Another thing I know nothing about; is acid's relation to nicotine. I know citric acid is sometime used to convert freebase nicotine into nicotine salts, which lowers the pH of the nicotine base. But I don't know if this removes, or reduces, any perceived sourness.

Perhaps testing some TFA Sour, first in a PG/VG base without nicotine, and then again in a PG/VG base with nicotine, might shed some light? (Sorry; I am not a sour chaser, so I have little interest...)

 

[NatashaTMT]

This is what Nude Nicotine (where I purchased) says about it...
Malic Acid – The most well-known ‘tart’ener which comprises TFA’s “Sour” and many other branded sour additives. Mixed in similar fashion to citric acid, and can be purchased similarly as a powder, concentrated, or diluted liquid.
I know TFA’s Sour is 20% and mines 15%. So it seems they’d be similar.

 

[NatashaTMT]

Part of the problem I think(?) with these "sour"acids is their boiling points:

Ascorbic acid: 374°F(153°C) melting point; 1,027°F(553°C) boiling point.
Citric acid: .... 307.4°F(190°C) melting point; 590°F(310°C) boiling point.
Malic acid:..... 266°F(130°C) melting point; (couldn't find) boiling point.
(source: wiki, and PubMed)

None of them "boil" at the temperatures we vape at (in/around the 400°F/204°C range). As such, I am theorizing that they don't convert to vapor well.

The only thing I can think to suggest @NatashaTMT, it to test by vaping solo (no other flavors/sweeteners to start). I'm guessing it won't be particularly exciting, and maybe even a bit unpleasant (so keep the tester sizes small), but it's the only way I can think of, to figure out how/if they will do anything for you... and at what levels.

Another thing I know nothing about; is acid's relation to nicotine. I know citric acid is sometime used to convert freebase nicotine into nicotine salts, which lowers the pH of the nicotine base. But I don't know if this removes, or reduces, any perceived sourness.

Perhaps testing some TFA Sour, first in a PG/VG base without nicotine, and then again in a PG/VG base with nicotine, might shed some light? (Sorry; I am not a sour chaser, so I have little interest...)

Thats actually some extremely great points to consider! I haven’t even considered temp to be the issue here. How clever! Makes a lot of sense considering no one’s really found it! I think I’ll do that tomorrow though... test solo w/o flavoring or sweetener. That’ll be a great way to find out exactly what they bring to the mix. Thanks for looking up that info and for great advice!

 

[IDJoel]

I’ve broken my nose a couple times which has caused a muted sense of smell. So I know from experience I need a little bit more flavor

I completely understand. Smell is an integral part of tasting. I try to never judge another person's preferred percentages. I know folks who would never dream of going over 5%,; and others who regularly mix up around 30 even 35%. It doesn't matter as long as it is right for them!

less is more in quantity of flavorings and percentages.

That is one of the basic DIYer's mixing mantras! I commonly read about experienced mixers; who instead of becoming more ingredient-laden, are simplifying with fewer, and fewer ingredients. If an ingredient isn't serving some specific purpose... get rid of it.

I absolutely LOVE fresh raspberries and blueberries and they’re my favorite with that tart juiciness. One of my favourite commercial juices is blue razz candy and although I really like it I always wanted it sour.

Stop and think. I wholly believe you are a fan of fresh fruits but when was the last time a candy fruit tasted anything like "fresh?" This is why I suggest chosing the right flavor for the purpose intended.

Think I’ll order some different brands and try again more in the way you’ve described.

A suggestion for choosing flavors: Research before you buy. I try to read everything I can find first. Bull City Flavors, ecigexpress, Nicotine River, ELR, ECF, VU, and Reddit all have reviews, opinions, and comments on individual flavor concentrates, and how they are used. Pay attention to how people describe them (fresh, candy, fake, jam, sweet, tart, perfumey, etc.). It is still a complete crapshoot that you will taste the same thing as anybody else; but it is something. I look for general consensus.

 

[IDJoel]

This is what Nude Nicotine (where I purchased) says about it...
Malic Acid – The most well-known ‘tart’ener which comprises TFA’s “Sour” and many other branded sour additives. Mixed in similar fashion to citric acid, and can be purchased similarly as a powder, concentrated, or diluted liquid.
I know TFA’s Sour is 20% and mines 15%. So it seems they’d be similar.

15% is a bit on the low end; but not horrible. TFA, as you said, is 20%; and Wizard Labs Super Sour is 40%.

As for NN saying "(fill in the blank with your choice);" take it with a grain of salt. I found some problems with some of their information early on, so I have lost some confidence. This is just a personal issue, for me; I know many are quite happy with their product and service.

 

[NatashaTMT]

If you get to the point you want to replace it; several of us use the Badger 121 Paint Mixer.

I ordered this today. Looks like great alternative to the milk frother I have. Looking forward to receiving and using it. Thanks again!

 

[IDJoel]

Thats actually some extremely great points to consider! I haven’t even considered temp to be the issue here. How clever! Makes a lot of sense considering no one’s really found it! I think I’ll do that tomorrow though... test solo w/o flavoring or sweetener. That’ll be a great way to find out exactly what they bring to the mix. Thanks for looking up that info and for great advice!

Please understand me; I am not encouraging ramping up temperatures. Other flavors may suffer. Wicking material can burn. And, there is some credible research coming from the pro-vaping side of science, that is finding higher temp. vaping is much riskier (less safe(?)).

It may take higher percentages to get the sour you want. It may take combinations of acids to achieve the result you want. It may just not be practical for some folks palates. But, I personally, would not risk high temperatures just to get "sour."

 

[NatashaTMT]

I completely understand. Smell is an integral part of tasting. I try to never judge another person's preferred percentages. I know folks who would never dream of going over 5%,; and others who regularly mix up around 30 even 35%. It doesn't matter as long as it is right for them!

That is one of the basic DIYer's mixing mantras! I commonly read about experienced mixers; who instead of becoming more ingredient-laden, are simplifying with fewer, and fewer ingredients. If an ingredient isn't serving some specific purpose... get rid of it.

Stop and think. I wholly believe you are a fan of fresh fruits but when was the last time a candy fruit tasted anything like "fresh?" This is why I suggest chosing the right flavor for the purpose intended.

A suggestion for choosing flavors: Research before you buy. I try to read everything I can find first. Bull City Flavors, ecigexpress, Nicotine River, ELR, ECF, VU, and Reddit all have reviews, opinions, and comments on individual flavor concentrates, and how they are used. Pay attention to how people describe them (fresh, candy, fake, jam, sweet, tart, perfumey, etc.). It is still a complete crapshoot that you will taste the same thing as anybody else; but it is something. I look for general consensus.

I know your right in all you’re saying! When buying all the flavors I purchased initially I read the store review for that product only and judged based on that alone. Then on “that recipe calc site” I found the census for many were the exact opposite. So huge lesson learned there!

 

[NatashaTMT]

Please understand me; I am not encouraging ramping up temperatures. Other flavors may suffer. Wicking material can burn. And, there is some credible research coming from the pro-vaping side of science, that is finding higher temp. vaping is much riskier (less safe(?)).

It may take higher percentages to get the sour you want. It may take combinations of acids to achieve the result you want. It may just not be practical for some folks palates. But, I personally, would not risk high temperatures just to get "sour."

I’m 100% with you there! I couldn’t and wouldn’t! I have mods that go WAY past where I vape at the highest but no, not for me! I have to step out now. Thanks against much! You’re great

 

[IDJoel]

Nooo! Don’t say that lol. So, can sweetener mute malic?

I knew I was forgetting one (and that you were asking dc99).

Sweeteners (in general) can play havoc with just about anything. I try to always make it the last component I add to a recipe. I try to get everything else about the recipe right first; and then add sweetener only if needed... and then only as little as needed.