DIY Ejuice Q's

[IDJoel]

I do want to try playing around a bit with salt. However, I think now I need to focus more on getting my footing down a bit more and feel more confident in my mixing before I add more to the equation.

And that is certainly a wise consideration. Making an effort to keep the variables limited helps me understand which ingredient is having what affect.

However, ingredients like saline and water, are easy enough to experiment with in a secondary fashion too. Neither really require any long aging to homogenize. So, it is reasonable to mix up a recipe, let it age, then do your taste sampling and record your observations. Then, with your left-overs (or a portion thereof), add a bit of DW... or saline, give it thorough mix and just a couple of days to stabilize (neither requires any significant aging), and then taste/vape test again.

With your fresh memories (and perception notes); it should be relatively easy to see what (if any) difference it makes. A couple of benefits of doing these secondary tests are: it saves (recycles if you will) your precious stockpile of ingredients; and the fairly short time frame gives you a better opportunity to recognize differences.

I want to do it all RIGHT NOW, lol. But I know, most likely, thats a sure way to failure.

That's half the battle: to recognize the potential pitfalls of doing too much at once. I can't speak for anyone else; but, for me, I don't have the (pick one or more: intelligence, sensitivity, expertise, skill, capacity) to be able to separate out what is doing what.

If I can limit myself to doing just one change (be it: increasing/decreasing the amount of ONE ingredient; adding/removing ONE ingredient; making one hardware change; etc.) at a time, even my poor old addled brain can grasp that "that" change had "that" affect.

I think I will experiment a bit with DW in smaller test batches.

"Small" is usually good. It saves supplies and it minimizes waste. Repurposing previous test batches also can help.

Some of the things I think about when I am deciding how much I want to mix up:

• How likely am I going to like it (have something that I am going to want to vape)? Very questionable recipes and/or ingredients get made in the smallest batches I can accurately, and conveniently measure.
• How difficult is it to measure? The strength of the ingredient(s), and the percentage(s) I am wanting to use them at, often will dictate the "minimum" batch size. If it has higher percentage expectations; it may be an easy task to mix up a 5mL, or even 3mL tester. But, if I have an ingredient that I only want to use say 0.25%; that can result in the recipe calling for less than a single drop of concentrate (physically impossible for me to measure accurately) if I make less than 10mL.
  
• How long do I think it is going to need to age? Because I like to taste unfamiliar ingredients/recipes repeatedly throughout the aging process; longer aging requires more to sample.
  
• How close to a finished/completed recipe is it? If it is brand new (to me); it is likely a total crapshoot whether I will like it enough to even bother tweaking it to my preferences. So, I make as little as possible. If it is familiar to me, and I am fairly confident I am going to enjoy vaping the whole thing; I may want to make more.
  
• Is this a base/starting point/foundation for trying multiple additions? Maybe I have a good start to a recipe; but it still needs something... say the banana flavor is two one-dimensional. I am thinking the addition of a second (different) banana will provide the depth I am wanting. The problem is; I have 6 additional banana concentrates to choose from. I could mix up one batch at a time using each of the concentrates in turn. Or, I could make up a larger batch of the basic recipe, divide it up into 6 individual containers; and add one extra banana concentrate to each of these. Now, all six are aging simultaneously, and are available for side-by-side comparisons. Once I find the "right" secondary banana; I can then focus on refining the precise ratio of just those two bananas.

All of these thought, or any combination of them; helps me decide if I want 3mL, 5mL, 10mL, 15mL, or even larger sample size.

One main thing I’m learning is more flavoring doesn’t mean more flavor. I’m still working on finding what works best for me because now that I have a new approach it’s sorta like starting over. Though I know my juices will be better for it. It took me long enough to get out of that mentality! lol

The common/popular mantra of "Start low; and work your way up as needed" still holds true for me. As my capacity to taste has improved (however little it seems), and as my DIY has developed; I have noticed only one (for the most part) consistency. And that is my need for less and less flavoring. So, to me, it only makes sense to start at the low end of the spectrum.

I have been exclusively DIYing now for more than three years. I am still constantly learning, changing, adopting, and discarding ideas and practices. What worked for me last year, last month, yesterday; may not work for me today. Maybe someone has taught me an easier, more efficient, way to accomplish my goals. Maybe I just am not concerned about "that aspect" any more.

My only "constant" in my DIY is; I am constantly changing!

I still stand by the idea that DIY is a journey. We individually can choose to make it as long, or as short, as we desire. A couple of tried-and-true recipes may be enough for some. For others; the reward is in a never-ending quest for the next great recipe. But all of us can make what we want of it. That is the beauty of DIY.

 

[FranC]

5-6 years ago I bought some 6ml glass bottles for mixing those recipes I wasn't at all sure to like.I used them for quite awhile but gave it up for the most part because it's just difficult to impossible to measure some small amounts. Now I just usually use 15ml bottles to mix the doubtful ones

 

[Letitia]

I don't do less than 15ml. Haven't stumbled onto an unvapable yet.

 

[DancingHeretik]

5-6 years ago I bought some 6ml glass bottles for mixing those recipes I wasn't at all sure to like.I used them for quite awhile but gave it up for the most part because it's just difficult to impossible to measure some small amounts. Now I just usually use 15ml bottles to mix the doubtful ones

I agree. Batches that small are really only good for testing individual flavorings to get some idea about them before you actually start combining flavorings.

 

[dc99]

And that is certainly a wise consideration. Making an effort to keep the variables limited helps me understand which ingredient is having what affect.

However, ingredients like saline and water, are easy enough to experiment with in a secondary fashion too. Neither really require any long aging to homogenize. So, it is reasonable to mix up a recipe, let it age, then do your taste sampling and record your observations. Then, with your left-overs (or a portion thereof), add a bit of DW... or saline, give it thorough mix and just a couple of days to stabilize (neither requires any significant aging), and then taste/vape test again.

With your fresh memories (and perception notes); it should be relatively easy to see what (if any) difference it makes. A couple of benefits of doing these secondary tests are: it saves (recycles if you will) your precious stockpile of ingredients; and the fairly short time frame gives you a better opportunity to recognize differences.

That's half the battle: to recognize the potential pitfalls of doing too much at once. I can't speak for anyone else; but, for me, I don't have the (pick one or more: intelligence, sensitivity, expertise, skill, capacity) to be able to separate out what is doing what.

If I can limit myself to doing just one change (be it: increasing/decreasing the amount of ONE ingredient; adding/removing ONE ingredient; making one hardware change; etc.) at a time, even my poor old addled brain can grasp that "that" change had "that" affect.

"Small" is usually good. It saves supplies and it minimizes waste. Repurposing previous test batches also can help.

Some of the things I think about when I am deciding how much I want to mix up:

• How likely am I going to like it (have something that I am going to want to vape)? Very questionable recipes and/or ingredients get made in the smallest batches I can accurately, and conveniently measure.
• How difficult is it to measure? The strength of the ingredient(s), and the percentage(s) I am wanting to use them at, often will dictate the "minimum" batch size. If it has higher percentage expectations; it may be an easy task to mix up a 5mL, or even 3mL tester. But, if I have an ingredient that I only want to use say 0.25%; that can result in the recipe calling for less than a single drop of concentrate (physically impossible for me to measure accurately) if I make less than 10mL.
  
• How long do I think it is going to need to age? Because I like to taste unfamiliar ingredients/recipes repeatedly throughout the aging process; longer aging requires more to sample.
  
• How close to a finished/completed recipe is it? If it is brand new (to me); it is likely a total crapshoot whether I will like it enough to even bother tweaking it to my preferences. So, I make as little as possible. If it is familiar to me, and I am fairly confident I am going to enjoy vaping the whole thing; I may want to make more.
  
• Is this a base/starting point/foundation for trying multiple additions? Maybe I have a good start to a recipe; but it still needs something... say the banana flavor is two one-dimensional. I am thinking the addition of a second (different) banana will provide the depth I am wanting. The problem is; I have 6 additional banana concentrates to choose from. I could mix up one batch at a time using each of the concentrates in turn. Or, I could make up a larger batch of the basic recipe, divide it up into 6 individual containers; and add one extra banana concentrate to each of these. Now, all six are aging simultaneously, and are available for side-by-side comparisons. Once I find the "right" secondary banana; I can then focus on refining the precise ratio of just those two bananas.

All of these thought, or any combination of them; helps me decide if I want 3mL, 5mL, 10mL, 15mL, or even larger sample size.

The common/popular mantra of "Start low; and work your way up as needed" still holds true for me. As my capacity to taste has improved (however little it seems), and as my DIY has developed; I have noticed only one (for the most part) consistency. And that is my need for less and less flavoring. So, to me, it only makes sense to start at the low end of the spectrum.

I have been exclusively DIYing now for more than three years. I am still constantly learning, changing, adopting, and discarding ideas and practices. What worked for me last year, last month, yesterday; may not work for me today. Maybe someone has taught me an easier, more efficient, way to accomplish my goals. Maybe I just am not concerned about "that aspect" any more.

My only "constant" in my DIY is; I am constantly changing!

I still stand by the idea that DIY is a journey. We individually can choose to make it as long, or as short, as we desire. A couple of tried-and-true recipes may be enough for some. For others; the reward is in a never-ending quest for the next great recipe. But all of us can make what we want of it. That is the beauty of DIY.

Very good write up. That last paragraph should be printed for it is a perfect description of us

 

[JCinFLA]

I agree. Batches that small are really only good for testing individual flavorings to get some idea about them before you actually start combining flavorings.

Well, I'm probably in a smaller group that disagrees. With any new recipe I've come across and am making for the first time, and/or any new recipe I'm trying to come up with...I still do Bill's 100DTT (100 drop taste test) first. By doing it, I use minimal amounts of my ingredients, do my tweaking and note taking, make any changes in flavorings %, etc., and end up with a final recipe that I know I'll like...each time I use it to make a much larger batch. Have been doing it since I first started DIY in Jan. 2016. My test sample usually ends up being about 4-5mL max. in size.

But, what size sample we each choose to make, is just another variable that's perfectly OK and helps to make DIYing so enjoyable, IMO. I couldn't imagine having fun with it, nor wanting to continue it, if there was no allowance for different preferences in: sample sizes, measuring methods used, the order of steps in our own DIY routine, the flavorings and brands we prefer, etc., etc.

 

[stols001]

Tasted a few PEG400 juices last night and I won't go into major specifics but seems as if flavor has increased slightly in comparison to my VG juices. They just seem slightly more advanced than other mixes at the same steep time. Not noting any off notes or yuck, they pretty much taste like I expect, only perhaps a bit more flavorful than other mixes I've tried at this point. I'd say (for me) give them another week and I think they will be pretty close to done.

Ah, I wish I was more articulate concerning this post, still on my first cup of coffee but don't want to forget. Less cloudy vapor too. I believe (unless something goes horribly wrong, LOL) that I will be getting more of it for my new mixes. I'm pretty happy with how the steepage is going. YMMV, I'd guess, but I am happy... so far.

Anna

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Tasted a few PEG400 juices last night and I won't go into major specifics but seems as if flavor has increased slightly in comparison to my VG juices. They just seem slightly more advanced than other mixes at the same steep time. Not noting any off notes or yuck, they pretty much taste like I expect, only perhaps a bit more flavorful than other mixes I've tried at this point. I'd say (for me) give them another week and I think they will be pretty close to done.

Ah, I wish I was more articulate concerning this post, still on my first cup of coffee but don't want to forget. Less cloudy vapor too. I believe (unless something goes horribly wrong, LOL) that I will be getting more of it for my new mixes. I'm pretty happy with how the steepage is going. YMMV, I'd guess, but I am happy... so far.

Anna

Your assessment seems to be spot on. VG has always been known to slightly mute flavoring so a little more flavoring when mixing with max vg is warranted to achieve the same taste as one would have with an all PG ejuice. VG also needs a longer steep period due to its thickness. And of course, VG is what produces mass clouds as compared to PG.

PG = more flavor and throat hit with moderate vapor production
VG = less flavor and smooth hit with heavy vapor production.

So the PEG sounds like it is more in line with PG.

 

[dc99]

Tasted a few PEG400 juices last night and I won't go into major specifics but seems as if flavor has increased slightly in comparison to my VG juices. They just seem slightly more advanced than other mixes at the same steep time. Not noting any off notes or yuck, they pretty much taste like I expect, only perhaps a bit more flavorful than other mixes I've tried at this point. I'd say (for me) give them another week and I think they will be pretty close to done.

Ah, I wish I was more articulate concerning this post, still on my first cup of coffee but don't want to forget. Less cloudy vapor too. I believe (unless something goes horribly wrong, LOL) that I will be getting more of it for my new mixes. I'm pretty happy with how the steepage is going. YMMV, I'd guess, but I am happy... so far.

Anna

Exactly what I get. Top notes seem more vivid. Keylime is way brighter. To me it seems to be right between PG and VG as far as flavor. 70/30 seems to be my sweetspot with it.

 

[ilporcupine]

If I can limit myself to doing just one change (be it: increasing/decreasing the amount of ONE ingredient; adding/removing ONE ingredient; making one hardware change; etc.) at a time, even my poor old addled brain can grasp that "that" change had "that" affect.

This is a key takeaway! Whether your trying to sort out flavors, troubleshoot your car, or figure out why Windows won't work right. If you can develop the discipline to only make a single change, and then revert if necessary, you will eventually find the one which is problematic. Wonderful advice.
I am striving to have the same methodical approach, myself.
On a somewhat related note, have you done technical writing? You could make a living at it.

 

[ilporcupine]

Just for completeness, as I don't disagree with anything here, for sure.
If you want to measure tiny amounts for small batches, you can use secondary dilutions. If your preferred ending ratio is 70/30, for example. You could measure one drop of a flavor(or by weight) into a 70/30 base, and then use a proportional amount of that mix to measure the flavor. If you needed 1/3 of a drop, you could mix 1 drop flavor with 2 drops base, and then use 1 drop of that solution.

 

[IDJoel]

This is a key takeaway! Whether your trying to sort out flavors, troubleshoot your car, or figure out why Windows won't work right. If you can develop the discipline to only make a single change, and then revert if necessary, you will eventually find the one which is problematic. Wonderful advice.
I am striving to have the same methodical approach, myself.
On a somewhat related note, have you done technical writing? You could make a living at it.

Nope. Just the result of growing up the son of an Engineer/educator. Everything had to have purpose. Purpose had to be understood. Purpose had to be able to be explained.

 

[DancingHeretik]

Well, I'm probably in a smaller group that disagrees. With any new recipe I've come across and am making for the first time, and/or any new recipe I'm trying to come up with...I still do Bill's 100DTT (100 drop taste test) first. By doing it, I use minimal amounts of my ingredients, do my tweaking and note taking, make any changes in flavorings %, etc., and end up with a final recipe that I know I'll like...each time I use it to make a much larger batch. Have been doing it since I first started DIY in Jan. 2016. My test sample usually ends up being about 4-5mL max. in size.

But, what size sample we each choose to make, is just another variable that's perfectly OK and helps to make DIYing so enjoyable, IMO. I couldn't imagine having fun with it, nor wanting to continue it, if there was no allowance for different preferences in: sample sizes, measuring methods used, the order of steps in our own DIY routine, the flavorings and brands we prefer, etc., etc.

I forgot about that! That's because I never got around to actually understanding it before. But, I think I get it now. I may just finally try it!

 

[ilporcupine]

I don't know who Bill is, and not having luck searching. 100 drop taste test?

 

[JCinFLA]

@ilporcupine - Link is to his Blog, where the 100DTT is explained, and you'll also find many more invaluable DIY hints, tips, tricks, etc., as well as many recipes. Most of his recipes are high total flavoring % ones, but they're easily adaptable to use lower %, too.


Bill's Magic Vapor's blog | E-Cigarette Forum

 

[DancingHeretik]

This is what explained it best to me:
Can't find Bill's Magic Vapor 100 DT for testing flavors Help

 

[ilporcupine]

This is what explained it best to me:
Can't find Bill's Magic Vapor 100 DT for testing flavors Help

Thanks, that is what i suspected it might be. 100 drops=100percent. Wonderfully simple.

 

[kas122461]

No mater how many time's I read up on how to use the drop test, I could not wrap my head around it. I saved all the instruction's for how to do it a long time ago, I just did not understand it. I will try again sometime this weekend, to figure it out again.

KAS

 

[ilporcupine]

100 drops = 100percent. Each drop is 1percent. Use 100 drops total. Easy Peasy
He goes on to explain using dilution to get fractional drops/percentages. Maybe that is where people got tripped up?
That's easier if you don't overthink it, as well. To get a half drop you just dilute 1 drop with an equal part of your base VG/PG, and use 1 drop of the combined solution.

 

[kas122461]

I just read it again and it does make sense now, not sure why it confused me before. The notes I saved he did go on a bit talking about the high flavor mix's, which I never really tried either. I think I tried a few of his recipes, mixed at a lower percentage, and liked them fine, that was a long time ago though. I will try this test thingy soon.

KAS