Diy worm!

[clh2121]

So are you saying that the amount of space/liquid that is only nic is being converted to either pg/vg in the computers calculations? And that is what is throwing your mix off?

Sorry I'm still trying to understand/be empathetic to your dilemma... Even if I still think it's splitting hairs.

 

[zoiDman]

So are you saying that the amount of space/liquid that is only nic is being converted to either pg/vg in the computers calculations? And that is what is throwing your mix off?

Sorry I'm still trying to understand/be empathetic to your dilemma... Even if I still think it's splitting hairs.

This is Exactly what the OP is Saying. And She/He is Actually Correct.

From a Mathematical Standpoint, it is Incorrect to say that an e-liquid or Nicotine Base is PG___%:VG___% where these Two percentages add up to 100%.

Because it does Not Account for the Volume of the Nicotine that is in the Solution.

 

[clh2121]

Yes, but in that light you can't claim a liquid as 50/50, 70/30 or what have you... It'd be 49.47/49.47/.06 PG/VG/nic and that's saying its unflavored.

 

[zoiDman]

BTW - I Committed on it Mattering if the Nicotine Volume was Included in the Calculation or Not earlier in this thread...

To some it Matters. To Many it Doesn't. But once Again, it is Kinda a Word Thing.

It Matters to me that People Put Blind Faith in a piece of Software and do Not Question whether the Results are Correct. And it Matters to me that a Coder can't not make a Better piece of Code.

And it Really Matters to Me if Someone Can Not do the Math with a Pencil, a piece of Paper, and a Hand Held Calculator and Find the Correct Answer to a Math Problem like this.

But It Doesn't Matter to me if the e-Liquid I am Hitting on is Exactly 18mg/ml when in Actuality it is 17.8mg/ml.

Because there is a Threshold where Higher Levels of Accuracy to Arbitrary Numbers of mg/ml Can Not be Detected.

 

[Strangebrew]

Wasn't the ideal to splitting hairs.

 

[zoiDman]

Yes, but in that light you can't claim a liquid as 50/50, 70/30 or what have you... It'd be 49.47/49.47/.06 PG/VG/nic and that's saying its unflavored.

It does seem to be a Very Cumbersome Method of Describing what People have been using Without Problems for a Number of Years?

Doesn't It.

 

[clh2121]

To me, yes... To someone I suppose it matters...

 

[classwife]

We sort of negate the nic when it's in a carrier of PG or VG

 

[zoiDman]

To me, yes... To someone I suppose it matters...

To be Honest, I like that the OP has Considered the Actual Volumes that are in a Given Nicotine Base or e-Liquid. I have spent Countless Hours teaching people to Think in Totality when Evaluating a Math Problem. And that Errors Many Times are Based on a Lack of Understanding EXACTLY what you looking at.

But once a Person can Quantify All the Parameters in a Problem, I also think that For Real World Application, some consideration needs to be made to Relative Errors and Tolerances.

As a Math Problem, the Amounts in a Flavored e-Liquid should be Definable to ANY Level of Accuracy. And if a person wants to take them out to a 1,000 Decimal Places, so be it. They're just Numbers.

But as a Mixing Problem where Taste is Highly subjective, and where levels of Measuring Accuracy are Usually Exceeded after 2 Decimal Places, I sometimes Question how much Accuracy is Needed?

 

[clh2121]

Oh, I appreciate what he's getting at, but I think changing the calculator to reflect that would confuse many new DIYers.

 

[zoiDman]

Oh, I appreciate what he's getting at, but I think changing the calculator to reflect that would confuse many new DIYers.

I think it would Confuse a Lot of Veteran DIY-ers. LOL

I also think if you did the Pepsi Challenge on Two Batches of Flavored e-Liquids, One done Mathematically Correct for All Volumes, and the Other done with the Calculator that the OP referred to, that 90% of people could Not Tell the Difference between then two.

And of the 10% who said they Could, Half of them said they Could when they Couldn't. And One Third of the Half who Could tell the Difference would Chose the Other if the Bottle Were Switched and the Taste Test was done Again.

 

[classwife]

zoiD...reminds me of Shorty's puzzles !

haha...that's where we met so long ago !!

 

[zoiDman]

zoiD...reminds me of Shorty's puzzles !

haha...that's where we met so long ago !!

I Saw Her, I Saw Her, I Saw Her! Shorty70

She Posted in a Thread a couple of Days ago and I said Hello.

But she Didn't Reply. I Don't think she Remembered me.

 

[classwife]

I Saw Her, I Saw Her, I Saw Her! Shorty70

She Posted in a Thread a couple of Days ago and I said Hello.

But she Didn't Reply. I Don't think she Remembered me.

She was online ?? wow !!

She probably didn't see you - you are unforgettable

 

[zoiDman]

She was online ?? wow !!

She probably didn't see you - you are unforgettable

Yeah, I just went and looked at her profile and it looks like she has been Posting a Little Lately.

I miss those Puzzle Threads. And the Simpler Time that they were made during.

Hope you had a Great 4th. And it Hasn't been as Hot as it Has been here.

 

[Hoosier]

I'm fascinated by the concept that a mass is being converted to a set volume.

Which adds inaccuracy's which completely alters as the mass is heated and then altered yet again after inhaling.

Mass and volume are neat things. It's even more fascinating that the volume of a unit of nicotine is being assumed equal to pure water at a certain temp and altitude.

OK, now that needs to be stuck into the calculator.
Sent by big fingers on a tiny phone via Tapatalk

 

[classwife]

I'll pop the popcorn and watch

 

[zoiDman]

I'm fascinated by the concept that a mass is being converted to a set volume.

Which adds inaccuracy's which completely alters as the mass is heated and then altered yet again after inhaling.

Mass and volume are neat things. It's even more fascinating that the volume of a unit of nicotine is being assumed equal to pure water at a certain temp and altitude.

OK, now that needs to be stuck into the calculator.
Sent by big fingers on a tiny phone via Tapatalk

Ah Man... Don't Mention Mass.

Because then we will have to go down the "Mole" Rabbit Hole.

It's Bad Enough dealing with Missing Volumes and 1000mg per ml Round-Off Error.

 

[Hoosier]

If we're going to be chasing complexities for accuracy's sake, it's best to have all the factors on the table.



I suspect the vast majority will see all the factors and feel much better about their missing volumes.



Those who cannot stand any inaccuracy will be taking temp and barometer readings and doing spectrum analyses of all components so they can be fully accurate on volumes.



After all PG and VG are not 100% pure, and that should have a larger impact on actual PG/VG ratio than most nicotine content in finished juice.



Yep, I brought in the purity of bases too....



I've got more, but will save them for a bit later.

Sent by big fingers on a tiny phone via Tapatalk

 

[zoiDman]

...

Yep, I brought in the purity of bases too....



I've got more, but will save them for a bit later.

Great... Now I have to Include an Anhydrous Correction Factor Formula (ACFF) into my Excel Spreadsheet. As well as an Altitude Compensation Scalar (ACS).

Looks like it is Going to Long Night. Better put on some Mocha Espresso e-Liquid.