DNA 200 Watt
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That's not going to happen. Users will still want a choice. And what about all the tube mech mods? Companies aren't going to stop making those. There will always be a market for 18650's.
LiPo has advantages and disadvantages, it's not better in every aspect. For example, one trade-off with LiPo is lower cycle life in certain applications. Depending on what the mod is designed to do, Lithium Ion batteries may be a much better choice than LiPo from an engineering perspective. Remember also that LiPo has been used before in mods (e.g., Innokin MVP), but despite that 18650s have remained quite popular.
Except for the fact that mechs will still use them, and that's the most dangerous application of them.Actually, it could be the best news Samsung, Sony, LG ever had. No more worrying about lawsuits, possible bad press when a cell bursts, people using their cells so far beyond recommended limits, individuals requesting datasheets, etc.
The yearly cell puchases of all vapers together might not even equal one order from one of their big customers.
Considering the fact that all the battery companies don't want people to use their batteries in vaping .... they don't care. they will be happy that people are dropping them. Nobody can sue them either. you are not using their batteries like they should be. that is like somebody shorting a battery on purpose and blowing up their hand and then suing
also considering that MOST vapers still use egos and stuff they won't feel it anyway(believe it or not but we aren't the majority) . And honestly the price point of DNA mod won't hurt the chinese mods that use 18650s.
also lets not forget that high quality lipos are pretty expensive compared to 18650s
That's likely been due to safety concerns. An 18650 battery comes with its own protection, while LiPos do not. The Innokin Disrupter will offer removable LiPo batteries, but they will be packaged using their InnoCell system to provide the required protection. From a consumer safety perspective, that sort of design should be included with any mod. When most consumers won't read manuals, letting them play with unprotected LiPos is a very bad idea.
Agreed....I wish the mod makers could get together and agree on a robust packaging standard for LiPo's but I don't think there is a ghost of a chance. If we're to be stuck with LiPo's that are nonreplaceable then I'll be forced to put DNA 200 off my possible list.
Duane
Are lipos really that fragile? I knew that puncturing them is bad but some people sound like looking at them makes them explode.
Personally I think that the whole lipo thing might hurt the DNA200 pretty bad. sure we know better but billy bob newbie that buys this thing because omg best thing evur and then the fricking lipo pack explodes because he was fiddling with it doesn't know better. innokin lipo's were either non-removable and their new stuff has it encased with a snap-on connection. while in terms of safety the DNA200 is limited to either build in or lipo batteries that are unprotected. or triple 18650s but I doubt the initial devices will use 18650s. Seems like the VS will be build in.
Inb4 innokin DNA 200 device with their battery system. wow that would be perfect.
Personally I think that the whole lipo thing might hurt the DNA200 pretty bad. sure we know better but billy bob newbie that buys this thing because omg best thing evur and then the fricking lipo pack explodes because he was fiddling with it doesn't know better. innokin lipo's were either non-removable and their new stuff has it encased with a snap-on connection. while in terms of safety the DNA200 is limited to either build in or lipo batteries that are unprotected. or triple 18650s but I doubt the initial devices will use 18650s. Seems like the VS will be build in.
Inb4 innokin DNA 200 device with their battery system. wow that would be perfect.
Obviously it's only a very small number of batteries that do fail, considering how many of any type are in use The question is if yours DO fail, would you rather have some heat and leakage or an explosive fireball?
I'm not really worried about safety with a properly packaged LiPo....but.......
My thing is that I want to be able to have my batteries available for a quick replace rather than having to let my mod sit wired to the wall to get it charged. I also want to be able to be able to carry an extra battery if I am going to be away from mains for more than a day. ... I have to have replaceable or I don't play the game.
Duane
I just eyeballed a new faceplate off of the pictures of the board with the DNA40 screen size. It will need work to get the dimensions right once the datasheet is released, but this board should be easier to design for since the buttons appear to be the same depth...that was one of the biggest issues with designing a faceplate for prior DNA boards (aside from getting the screen area correct). Here's what I have so far...mind you that I have no idea about spacing so this is just a rough sketch and the rails (height and depth) will likely require some adjustment in addition to button placement. The good news is that it just passed all Shapeways design checks in plastic and metals. I've made this tall enough and wide enough to accommodate this LiPo with an appropriate sized box: MultiStar Race Spec 3S 1400mAh 40-80C Multi-Rotor Lipo Pack For FPV Minis
Front View
Back View
Front View
Back View
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I don't know if fragile is the right word but LiPo's and all other lithium-cobalt cells, like ICR's, have a lower thermal runaway temperature than the lithium-manganese (IMR) cells. But it's still above 225°C. The biggest difference is that the reactions that take place during lithium-cobalt cell thermal runaway are much more energetic and reach much higher temperatures. This can ignite the solvents leaking from the cell, cause more thermal damage that potentially spreads to other cells, and increases the pressure inside a mod that is not vented well enough. All good reasons to repect LiPo's, but not to think of them as bombs waiting to go off.
The pouch cells not having physical protection is a huge concern in my opinion. At least cylindrical ICR's are protected from modest physical abuse. Pouch cells are incredibly delicate and need to be mounted carefully. And now many pouch cell users know that the edges of some pouches expose the conductive foil, possibly causing a short?
Lipos are great. You don't have anything that matches their power to weight ratio. That's why you use them in rc helicopters. However that performance comes with risks. I have a 400 dollar charger for them and I mark each lipo religiously and keep charging records for all of them. Yet failure is deem to happen sooner or later.
Sure, vaping lipos might never see the monstrous discharge rates of rc helis or gliders but they are volatile.
There was a time where most serious rc guys would use lipos to power the motor but lions to power the electronics. A heli can survive a motor failure but without electronics it's doomed.
Unfortunately, I forsee a bunch of accidents, especially on home brew mods using sub par lipos in high discharge applications.
A lipo can burst when over charged, when over discharged, while charging, while discharging, with a short... Heck, I only didn't see one go off while sitting quietly...
Wait... Sorry. I remember one lipo going off because a idiot charged it to 4.34V outside (cold) and then threw it inside his car. The lipo warmed up, voltage went up and boom.
I love lipos but they not for everyone.
Regards
Tony
Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.
Sure, vaping lipos might never see the monstrous discharge rates of rc helis or gliders but they are volatile.
There was a time where most serious rc guys would use lipos to power the motor but lions to power the electronics. A heli can survive a motor failure but without electronics it's doomed.
Unfortunately, I forsee a bunch of accidents, especially on home brew mods using sub par lipos in high discharge applications.
A lipo can burst when over charged, when over discharged, while charging, while discharging, with a short... Heck, I only didn't see one go off while sitting quietly...
Wait... Sorry. I remember one lipo going off because a idiot charged it to 4.34V outside (cold) and then threw it inside his car. The lipo warmed up, voltage went up and boom.
I love lipos but they not for everyone.
Regards
Tony
Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.
DNA 200 sounds very interesting...
Power source decisions seem to force significant questions.
The whole thing begs for a strong systems engineering approach and I'm not sure that the American industry has addressed that.
I hope so or some German or Chinese company will do it and I fear the Americans will be on the outside looking in.
Duane
Power source decisions seem to force significant questions.
The whole thing begs for a strong systems engineering approach and I'm not sure that the American industry has addressed that.
I hope so or some German or Chinese company will do it and I fear the Americans will be on the outside looking in.
Duane
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