Do Coils actuallly need to be 'COILs"?

[Salt&PePPer]

I asked myself this question today while brainstorming. Do atomizer coils need to be in a COIL configuration?

What is the science behind make the liquid into vapor and why does A Coil make that happen?

From what I gather the wire needs to run Parallel to itself for a length of distance.

What would stop me from running the same wire next to itself, FLAT, rather closely together like coils are spaced when wound around a wick? I have some, what I think are good, ideas for making rebuildable wicks.

Thinking about taking the whole VAPORIZING Apparatus into a new direction. Once I can really understand the science behind it just watchout!

 

[DaveP]

To make a coil, you measure off the point at which the resistance of a piece of nichrome wire equals the resistance you want (using an ohm meter). To fit it into a small space, you wrap it around a rod to make coils so it will fit.

Coils provide some spring effect and rigidity that allows them to stand up and not easily bend and touch each other. Wrapping back and forth parallel in lines would require a fireproof form to keep them from touching. It could be done, but not as easily as the coil method, which is the most compact way to make a long wire short.

To vaporize juice, you need heat. About 200 degrees is good. The science behind a nichrome coil is that the resistance of the coil impedes current flow and the electrons tend to back up in the wire. When electrons are crowded and rub against each other, they generate heat at that point. If you have a low resistance wire, those same electrons zip through without crowding together and come out the other end without heating up the wire. We call that wire a good conductor. Nichrome wire is not a good conductor and it slows the electrons down. Heat occurs and there's voltage drop along the wire.

With the right wire in your coil, that heat is transferred to the juice, which heats up to the atomization point and begins to boil and give off vapor as the heat causes it shed heat into the surrounding air. With that heat comes atomized particles of whatever the juice contains. This creates a fog and you have vapor. It's very similar to a tea kettle filled with water creating steam.

 

[Salt&PePPer]

Thanks makes perfect sense.

So the effect of the Nichrome being wound into a Coil and the fact that the wire has very low conductive properties heats it up. Essentially the electricity doesn't have a straight line of sight and it has to make this turn at a very high rate of resistance, comparative to other materials. That's why copper and aluminum wouldn't work too well for such things?

By that same token Nichrome wouldn't work too well it making Twisted Pair Voice and Data Cabling!

With other varieties of wire I can achieve around 1.5ohms to 2.0ohms of resistance with two or three inches, or more, or wire?

The whole idea is to make the electricity 'turn' direction to heat up the wire; and we're trying to achieve at least 200 degree F?

 

[Salt&PePPer]

How about if I can place single coils two or three millimeters apart from one another while trying to keep at least three or four complete 360 degree 'turns' before continuing? The coils don't need to be continuous?

 

[BJ43]

Here is a cig lighter I modded for dripping, it came with a stove type coil.

 

[Salt&PePPer]

OK you just might have something there.

You just took a length of wire. Grabbed it in the middle and start to twist it while pulling it up a whee bit, so that the negative and positive ends are sitting just a little bit lower than the very middle/upper-tip?

I'm working with probably 3/4th of a square inch of total surface area where making a traditional 'COIL' doesn't make much sense. Don't want to let el gato out of el bosa just yet what I'm doing.

But I just saw in another thread where Kenthal and Nichrome wires are used in cutting FOAM for Hobby Purposes and there are no twist and turns in it! Heat is generated that cuts the foam. Granted that method is using multiple inches of the wire at a time so the resistance is much hire.

I wonder how many linear inches are needed to come to 200 Degrees in order to make vapor.

Now only if I had that lathe so I could start making parts. Might have to look into an electronics solution along with what I'm thinking to make it work.

 

[P1NkY]

Thanks makes perfect sense.

So the effect of the Nichrome being wound into a Coil and the fact that the wire has very low conductive properties heats it up. Essentially the electricity doesn't have a straight line of sight and it has to make this turn at a very high rate of resistance, comparative to other materials. That's why copper and aluminum wouldn't work too well for such things?

By that same token Nichrome wouldn't work too well it making Twisted Pair Voice and Data Cabling!

With other varieties of wire I can achieve around 1.5ohms to 2.0ohms of resistance with two or three inches, or more, or wire?

The whole idea is to make the electricity 'turn' direction to heat up the wire; and we're trying to achieve at least 200 degree F?

The way the wire is formed (coiled, straight or what have you) has no direct effect on its ability to give off heat.

What DaveP is saying is the wire is coiled to make the most efficient use of space in an atomizer, as well as having a sturdy shape and being able to absorb shock not to mention being in secure contact with the wick at all times (open spaces create unwanted "hot spots" along the wire).

To have the wire in any other form would either compromise its stability or be difficult to keep attached to the wick, but it would still heat up the same (although in a tight coil form, the heat would be concentrated in a much smaller space).

 

[zoiDman]

All the Atomizer wire does is get Hot. But to make Vapor, you need e-Liquid to be on Contact with the Atomizer wire.

I have given the "Coil" concept a Lot of thought. I don't know of too many Ways that a Wick and an Atomizer wire can be Joined which works much Better than "Coiling" the Atomizer Wire around a Round Wick.

One concept I did try was putting the Coil Wire Inside a Wick.

 

[2GLR]

One thing to remember is you are heating up metal. This metal is going to want to expand and contract with each firing. The bends in the coil allow it to expand and contract while putting less compressive and tensile stresses on the actual wire. This helps prevent premature breaking in the wire and causing an open. If it wasn't formed in a coil then it would be pretty much just a fuse waiting to pop.

 

[TomCatt]

From nicotime

Since you guys using cotton will be changing wicks a lot due to its inherent filtering effect gumming it up...you may want to use a "taco" type coil that I used to use on my CE2's...much easier to change. Have fun!

Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

 

[Salt&PePPer]

Thanks 2GLR, I had originally mentioned Thermal Expansion in my first response above before I went back over it to edit.

I'm working on a way to give the array, that's what I'm calling it, a bit of flex at the mounting points. That is where it is wound and the wire makes the 180 turn to go back the way it came. That and another reason why I need to use some lower resistance wire because I can see using three inches or some of wire.

Man I so need a job to buy the things I need to make what I want. Don't know when that is going to happen.

BUT, at the moment I'm looking at probably 6 to 7.5 inches of linear wire!

The DCT tanks run their circuits in parallel correct?

 

[asdaq]

If you want 6 or seven inches of wire for what you are doing but want the same resistance, just use a lower gauge wire which is thicker. It allows more electricity to pass through it, or has less resistance.

Another point of the coil is it's insulative effect. Take a straight wire apply current and it heats, this heat dissipates in the air or liquid around it and it cools itself by releasing the heat. Take the same wire and coil it, or make a taco or a gato, and as one wrap of the coil sends off it's heat it sends it warms the one next to it preventing the cooling effect of dissipation. My hair dryer which forces a lot of air through has a heating element that looks like a spring wrapped around 4 posts in a diamond shape.My toaster just has a bunch of straight lines in it as it doesn't move any air and is basically an insulated box. My space heater I forget what it looks like but is basically something in between the hair dryer and the toaster.

 

[Salt&PePPer]

My idea is to run four or five lengths of wire parallel to each other a long about 3/4ths.of an inch a long two axis, in an X & Y 90* degrees configuration. That is why I'm looking at about ~6 to 7.5 inches. So using a larger AWG wire is suitable. Odds are pushing the idea of what most modders are use to and thus think is even acceptable for an atomizer configuration.

And I plan on.using two of these. Would I need some Batts that could push all the extra electricity. Would an eGo be able to keep up with pushing all that electricity? Would a 5.0V extremely high mAh source be necessary?

I haven't worked out how to keep the wire from touching itself when it intersects! If I run five lengths a long both axis that is 25 intersections. Do I try to keep each intersection individually which is labor intensive? Or is there some material I can.place between each run of five lengths that is extremely thin, heat resistant and non toxic? Thinking about no wider than a piece of 200lb printer paper! What is that something like .01 millimeter?

At the moment just thinking about modifying a higher quality rebuildable.

A good friend of mine father just spent about $10K on a Lathe and CNC Mill. Now if I could have crashed that Industrial Machine and tool making course at the local CC.

 

[asdaq]

Something like this? /////// under \\\\\\\ ?

 

[Salt&PePPer]

Four or five runs on top running parallel then the same number running 90*. Does it really matter if the wires touch each other? In this type on an application where the wires are used to heat up is there an issue of shorting out?

 

[asdaq]

If the wires touch then the path of least resistance is shorter, so yes it matters.

 

[Salt&PePPer]

Darn shorting...

 

[BJ43]

If the wires touch then the path of least resistance is shorter, so yes it matters.

And as asdag stated, I would add that only that shorter path will heat up and the rest would stay cold with no current going thru it.

 

[DaveP]

The coil is the most efficient way to create a heating element. The coils provide rigidity and compact heat concentration. When wrapped around a wick that's immersed in a juice bowl, they excel at producing vapor.

Any configuration will work, provided you maximize contact with juice. Parallel runs will require an insulator, such as a mica sheet to prevent adjacent runs from touching each other. The coil also provides contact with a wick that is immersed in a bowl. The silica wick provides support and alignment stability for the coil. It's a proven design that works.

The smaller the nichrome wire gauge, the higher the resistance per inch and the greater the fragility of the wire. Finding the right combination of wire thickness (gauge) and resistance (related to diameter) is critical to your application. Thickness gives you durability, but lower resistance. Experimentation will reveal the winner.

If you really want to innovate, find a point source heating element that works at ecig mod voltages. i.e. an LED type device that produces the right temperature in a small space. There are infrared laser diodes, but they require specialized power. There would also be the eye hazard protection to deal with.

Piezo crystals can produce vapor also, but they do it without heat. One of the first Ruyan ecigs used a piezo. They operate using ultrasonic vibrations instead of heat, so the vapor is cold.

 

[asdaq]

Roughly speaking I'm imaginig you are planning something like a waffle iron with a paper towel soaked in juice in the middle, which is a very crude ananlogy I'm sure. I'm rather in agreement with Dave that it is hard to beat a coil, but would like to add that airflow is also crucial to producing vapor as it provides a cooling effect to the heating element and takes the vapor away from the heating area. You can see what I mean by firing an atty for as long as you would draw on it and only thereafter inhaling the draw, you get no decent vapor. Draw on it as you normally do and you get vapor. The waffle iron setup might sizzle the juice, but doesn't allow for airflow.