Doctor's Opinions On Vaping

[stols001]

Not exactly. But, FDA studies are 12 weeks LONG. WE are the guinea pigs for all new medications going to market in any type of long term fashion. That's actually why the FDA has a site to report side effects, and will sometimes yank a drug if too many people die.

I also read a book by a dude who made his living via clinical trials. It was an interesting read, for sure. They'd "isolate" you from the pool tables and TV and other patients if you had "side effects" and questioning would go like this, "Any side effects?"
"I have a headache."
"How bad is it, is it really that bad?"
"Continued talk and questions trying to minimize reporting of side effects etc." It's really not a good system at all.

There are also many drugs that get to "Human patient 0" who immediately dies, the whole thing is hushed up and paid off and etc. My dad told me about that and I believe him. But, someone has to be "Human Patient 0" and they are paid well (good if it works not so good if it doesn't.)

WE are the guinea pigs for about the first 20 years or so as to long term data. I always go with something that's been around for a long time if I possibly can, and certain drugs I WILL not take like statins (besides which bile sequestrants work just as well, and the side effects aren't crippling). I also see more data about cholesterol "numbers" not being quite as predictive as first noted.

I mean look at "hormone replacement" during menopause. There was a non-causal effect meaning the women who took hormones appeared to live longer, but it was generally because they tended to take better care of themselves. Once they figured out that this was the effect, and hormones actually INCREASED the risk of stroke and heart attack, that news traveled pretty quickly....

So yes, WE are the real guinea pigs with many, many medicines. It sucks, but that's the system here...

Anna

 

[CMD-Ky]

Twelve weeks? Sounds to me like the final clinical trial is the release to the general public. I'll stick with generics, if it is old enough for the patent to have run then the data is probably in for the side effects to become knowable for those who want to know.

Not exactly. But, FDA studies are 12 weeks LONG. WE are the guinea pigs for all new medications going to market in any type of long term fashion. That's actually why the FDA has a site to report side effects, and will sometimes yank a drug if too many people die.

I also read a book by a dude who made his living via clinical trials. It was an interesting read, for sure. They'd "isolate" you from the pool tables and TV and other patients if you had "side effects" and questioning would go like this, "Any side effects?"
"I have a headache."
"How bad is it, is it really that bad?"
"Continued talk and questions trying to minimize reporting of side effects etc." It's really not a good system at all.

There are also many drugs that get to "Human patient 0" who immediately dies, the whole thing is hushed up and paid off and etc. My dad told me about that and I believe him. But, someone has to be "Human Patient 0" and they are paid well (good if it works not so good if it doesn't.)

WE are the guinea pigs for about the first 20 years or so as to long term data. I always go with something that's been around for a long time if I possibly can, and certain drugs I WILL not take like statins (besides which bile sequestrants work just as well, and the side effects aren't crippling). I also see more data about cholesterol "numbers" not being quite as predictive as first noted.

I mean look at "hormone replacement" during menopause. There was a non-causal effect meaning the women who took hormones appeared to live longer, but it was generally because they tended to take better care of themselves. Once they figured out that this was the effect, and hormones actually INCREASED the risk of stroke and heart attack, that news traveled pretty quickly....

So yes, WE are the real guinea pigs with many, many medicines. It sucks, but that's the system here...

Anna

 

[CMD-Ky]

I have wondered the exact same thing. I think we are on to something here.

Mattiem, this is one more incident of anecdotal evidence that, in fact, great minds do think alike.

 

[HauntedMyst]

My doctor was all for me vaping. I told her I finally quit cigarettes and she was excited. Then she checked my prostate with a baseball bat. I really shouldn't have asked her if her new haircut was an homage to Peggy Bundy.

 

[Walee]

I would source a new doctor if mine gave advice per the MSLSD talking head.

 

[ScottP]

I would source a new doctor if mine gave advice per the MSLSD talking head.

I see a lot of people think the same way. However, leaving them in their ignorance and getting a new Dr. only allows them to keep preventing smokers from converting. If you don't at least try to open their eyes, at least part of the blame is on you.

On the other hand, if you do manage to change their mind then every person they convert to vaping is also because of you.

 

[Walee]

the other hand, if you do manage to change their mind then every person they convert to vaping is also because of you.

How magnanimous. I'll stick to hitting them in their pocket book.

 

[Letitia]

It's so easy to say get a new doctor, but for some there are no other options. If the Dr. is arrogant and has a closed mind and you are stuck with said Dr. you are better off to just give them links and let the subject drop.

 

[EIHYPI]

For me it is very easy to say to get a new doctor. I just have to use the Yelp app and many come up in my area. I live close to NYC so in a way I'm lucky. This topic of educating a doctor reminds me of a different thread I once made concerning converting smokers into vapers called "How To Approach A Smoker: The Right Way". The bottom line in that thread was that you don't approach a smoker and try to convert them.

Everything depends on the doctor's personality. I think that if the doctor is all official in his or her beliefs and you can't really bend them, then they are like the smoker in the sense that you don't approach them or try to convert them. But obviously if they are a nice people's person and are very interested in what you have to say that's obviously a different story.

 

[Kickingthesticks]

The same thing happened to me, my doctor asked if I wanted to be put on chantix. Told her nope.

 

[sofarsogood]

Doctors and scientists are not the same thing. Learn the difference. Medicine is very old. Science is very new. They do very different things. Doctors know about illnesses that they treat. They don't know anything about electronic cigarettes because they aren't treating any illnesses caused by them.

 

[WillyZee]

if they don't succeed in killing vaping to save Big Tobacco ... pretty soon, all doctors will have to support vaping.

 

[mattiem]

Doctors and scientists are not the same thing. Learn the difference. Medicine is very old. Science is very new. They do very different things. Doctors know about illnesses that they treat. They don't know anything about electronic cigarettes because they aren't treating any illnesses caused by them.

I personally think it is time for them to exert the effort to learn so they can help their smoking patients. Those that refuse to dig deeper than what they hear from the talking heads are breaking their oath to first do no harm. JMHO

I had to start seeing a new to me doctor when mine retired. He was one that still thought our e-liquid had anti-freeze in it. I couldn't let that pass. He now knows my thoughts on that de-bunked piece of information.

 

[ScottP]

Doctors and scientists are not the same thing. Learn the difference. Medicine is very old. Science is very new. They do very different things. Doctors know about illnesses that they treat. They don't know anything about electronic cigarettes because they aren't treating any illnesses caused by them.

I agree. If those Dr's, when asked about vaping, responded "I don't know that is out of my field of expertise", then I would be fine with that. However, I view a Dr that has no clue, has done no studying, and is completely ignorant of facts, giving BAD, UNHEALTHY ADVICE as a direct violation of their Hippocratic Oath. Giving incorrect advice, on a topic they know nothing about, that causes someone to make unhealthy choices, IS DOING HARM. That we ALL should have a problem with.

We can try to point this out to the Dr and at least try to be part of the solution, or we can choose a different Dr and vanish with them never knowing why and be part of allowing the problem to continue.

 

[Beamslider]

The primary care doctor I go to only started looking into vaping because several of his patients switched to vaping from smoking. Otherwise he probably wouldn't have bothered to look at it.

 

[ScottP]

The primary care doctor I go to only started looking into vaping because several of his patients switched to vaping from smoking. Otherwise he probably wouldn't have bothered to look at it.

Exactly. I think most Dr's do want to be able to answer patient questions correctly, but until they start getting questions on a particular topic they don't care about it. We can help guide them to the correct information or let them stumble around and find the propaganda.

 

[CMD-Ky]

The primary care doctor I go to only started looking into vaping because several of his patients switched to vaping from smoking. Otherwise he probably wouldn't have bothered to look at it.

A physician with an open mind, quickly snap a picture for posterity. These are not often found in the wild.

 

[papergoblin]

Does their opinion matter? That's a question that I got in my head when I visited this doctor for the first time today. She asked me if I smoke cigarettes so I told her not for about 3 and a half years. Although I did mention after that I had been using electronic cigarettes for about 3 and a half years. Her reaction upset me very much. She said I should seriously think about quitting e-cigarettes too. I asked her what's safer, cigarettes or e-cigarettes and she says, well you read in the news all the time how unhealthy they are so you can't say one is better than the other.

I got really mad inside. If I was ignorant and listened to her, I would have felt terrible because I'd think to myself that my body is Still unhealthy. I actually felt dreadful inside for a moment but then reminded myself that vaping is 95% safer than smoking.

I feel that if a doctor is going to give their 2¢ about vaping to me, they should do it from research and studies or basically hard facts. Something to give them a say on the matter. Don't just pop out of your mouth what every other e-cigarette critic is saying, be it from the paper, the news or your friends. Your label is Doctor for a reason so keep what you tell your patients at that same level.

Nothing against doctors (well may be some of them, lol) but I don't put a lot of faith in them. Some are good and some are just there to get the paycheck. The one I have now is pretty sharp, she actually tells people to go to electronic, gum and patches before she'll even let people use Chantix.

Now what I really wanted to say was, I have some papers where they did the whole family history stuff. In it were where a doctor made a home visit, cost them a basket of green beans, 1 dozen eggs, and some potatoes. The script he wrote was for a baby with a bad cough, it said 1 thimble of whiskey and 1 thimble of honey mixed with 1/2 bottle of milk twice a day, then he'd be back in 2 days for a check up.

So doctors are like the rest of us, they just get paid more and owe more for college, lol.

 

[CMD-Ky]

Nothing against doctors (well may be some of them, lol) but I don't put a lot of faith in them. Some are good and some are just there to get the paycheck. The one I have now is pretty sharp, she actually tells people to go to electronic, gum and patches before she'll even let people use Chantix.

Now what I really wanted to say was, I have some papers where they did the whole family history stuff. In it were where a doctor made a home visit, cost them a basket of green beans, 1 dozen eggs, and some potatoes. The script he wrote was for a baby with a bad cough, it said 1 thimble of whiskey and 1 thimble of honey mixed with 1/2 bottle of milk twice a day, then he'd be back in 2 days for a check up.

So doctors are like the rest of us, they just get paid more and owe more for college, lol.

I don't need a doctor to prescribe whiskey.

 

[Letitia]

I don't need a doctor to prescribe whiskey.

That's because you're in KY, already in your blood.