Does this seem right to you?

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skoony

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OK... Can you post a Link to where you got this Definition to the word "Derived"?
the definition is in the the family tobacco control act i beleive.
i'll track it down.
prior to 2009 it was a derivative of tobacco or tobacco product.
this of course was considering first generation products.
snus,chewing tobacco,and especially cigarettes.
it was written before e-cigs became a concern.
this link is what they mean by derivative of.
Derivative Synonyms, Derivative Antonyms | Thesaurus.com
derivative of and derived from do not mean the same thing.
regards
mike
 
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zoiDman

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the definition is in the the family tobacco control act i beleive.
i'll track it down.

prior to 2009 it was a derivative of tobacco or tobacco product.
this of course was considering first generation products.
snus,chewing tobacco,and especially cigarettes.
it was written before e-cigs became a concern.
this link is what they mean by derivative of.
Derivative Synonyms, Derivative Antonyms | Thesaurus.com
derivative of and derived from do not mean the same thing.
regards
mike

That would be Great. :)

BTW - The link you provided was for "Synonyms" of words. And it wasn't even for Synonyms of the word "Derive". It was for the word "Derivative".

LOL
 

Jazzman

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IIRC, there is a clause in the proposed regs that states they have power to regulate anything that is "intended for use" with a tobacco product as a tobacco product. Which would include mods, tanks, etc. and leaves pretty much anything open for interpretation as being intended for use. Vague, but effective to regulate the majority of hardware we use for the purpose of vaping. I don't have time right now to go through the regs for the reference, but I'm pretty sure that was the catch-all that was included to provide regulation for hardware.
 

zoiDman

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IIRC, there is a clause in the proposed regs that states they have power to regulate anything that is "intended for use" with a tobacco product as a tobacco product. Which would include mods, tanks, etc. and leaves pretty much anything open for interpretation as being intended for use. Vague, but effective to regulate the majority of hardware we use for the purpose of vaping. I don't have time right now to go through the regs for the reference, but I'm pretty sure that was the catch-all that was included to provide regulation for hardware.

Yeah... There is also the words...

Section 201(rr) of the FD Act (21 U.S.C. 321(rr)), as amended by the Tobacco Control Act, defines the term “tobacco product” to mean “any product made or derived from tobacco that is intended for human consumption,..."

And that's Cool. Because everything thing I buy is Not Intended for Human Consumption.

LOL
 
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beckdg

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We know all that.

I want to know where you are getting this from....

"derived from means any thing that copies,mimics,takes the place,used instead of, a facemlie of,
looks like,is a clone of tobacco or a tobacco product."


What is your source for the Definition of the word "Derived" ?

Such as something like this...

derive
(Receive), verb acquire, come into possession, draw from, extract, get, glean, obtain, procure, secure, take, trahere

derived legal definition of derived
From your link...

derive (Deduce), verb conclude, construe, deducere,draw a conclusion, draw an inference, extract, infer, make a deduction, obtain by reasoning, reason, theorize, trace

derive (Receive), verb acquire, come into possession,draw from, extract, get, glean, obtain, procure, secure, take,trahere

Looks to be covered to me...

Tapatyped
 

caramel

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IIRC, there is a clause in the proposed regs that states they have power to regulate anything that is "intended for use" with a tobacco product as a tobacco product. Which would include mods, tanks, etc. and leaves pretty much anything open for interpretation as being intended for use. Vague, but effective to regulate the majority of hardware we use for the purpose of vaping. I don't have time right now to go through the regs for the reference, but I'm pretty sure that was the catch-all that was included to provide regulation for hardware.

I don't think they can do much over "devices". One could always sell "Flavour inhalers" "not for use with tobacco products". And "flavours" for said inhaler. You don't even need to go all the way to "510 universal flashlights"" and "soap making supplies". The FSPTCA gives them clear authority over nicotine and other stuff extracted from tobacco plants but that's all.
 

Lessifer

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Section 201(rr) of the FD&C Act (21 U.S.C. 321(rr)), as amended by the Tobacco Control Act, defines the term "tobacco product" to mean "any product made or derived from tobacco that is intended for human consumption, including any component, part, or accessory of a tobacco product (except for raw materials other than tobacco used in manufacturing a component, part, or accessory of a tobacco product)."1 Products that meet the statutory definition of "tobacco products" can include currently marketed products such as certain dissolvables, gels, hookah tobacco, electronic cigarettes, cigars, and pipe tobacco. Components and parts of tobacco products, but not their related accessories, would also be included in the scope of this proposed rule. Components and parts are included as part of a finished tobacco product or intended for consumer use in the consumption of a tobacco product. Components and parts that would be covered under this proposal include those items sold separately or as part of kits sold or distributed for consumer use or further manufacturing or included as part of a finished tobacco product. Such examples would include air/smoke filters, tubes, papers, pouches, or flavorings used for any of the proposed deemed tobacco products (such as flavored hookah charcoals and hookah flavor enhancers) or cartridges for e-cigarettes.

Now, you can argue the logistics, but the intent seems pretty clear. I believe the part about "raw materials" would exclude cotton, kanthal, silica. Removable batteries that can be used in other equipment would fall under accessories, I think, so wouldn't be covered by the regulations.
 

skoony

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Section 201(rr) of the FD&C Act (21 U.S.C. 321(rr)), as amended by the Tobacco Control Act, defines the term "tobacco product" to mean "any product made or derived from tobacco that is intended for human consumption, including any component, part, or accessory of a tobacco product (except for raw materials other than tobacco used in manufacturing a component, part, or accessory of a tobacco product)."1 Products that meet the statutory definition of "tobacco products" can include currently marketed products such as certain dissolvables, gels, hookah tobacco, electronic cigarettes, cigars, and pipe tobacco. Components and parts of tobacco products, but not their related accessories, would also be included in the scope of this proposed rule. Components and parts are included as part of a finished tobacco product or intended for consumer use in the consumption of a tobacco product. Components and parts that would be covered under this proposal include those items sold separately or as part of kits sold or distributed for consumer use or further manufacturing or included as part of a finished tobacco product. Such examples would include air/smoke filters, tubes, papers, pouches, or flavorings used for any of the proposed deemed tobacco products (such as flavored hookah charcoals and hookah flavor enhancers) or cartridges for e-cigarettes.

Now, you can argue the logistics, but the intent seems pretty clear. I believe the part about "raw materials" would exclude cotton, kanthal, silica. Removable batteries that can be used in other equipment would fall under accessories, I think, so wouldn't be covered by the regulations.
BINGO!
depending on how you interpret it it can mean cotton,
kanthol and silica but not the cotton plant or materials
needed to make kanthal or silica.
it also covers batteries because it what makes it all work.
it also covers any other power source.
it covers the whole nine yards.
please also note it doesn't say one thing about nicotine
or ones intent to use or not use nicotine.
:2c:
regards
mike
 

skoony

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The deeming regs start and finish with deeming ecig products as tobacco. Without this passing there is nothing else on the table for the FDA. Minors in a vaping shop is not a separate issue in the deeming and can't be enacted or enforced by the FDA without deeming ecigs as tobacco with the way the current regs are written. Don't lose focus on the one and only real issue by ancillary issues that sound reasonable, but require the deeming as tobacco to pass. That is the road to defeat for vaping.

Underage vaping and access to vaping establishment can and should be handled by localities, states, or a completely separate FDA reg than what is currently on the table. I don't see any movement on the FDAs part for rewriting the proposed regs to encompass just those issues we agree with, and the FDA has stated that they intend to pass the regs as written without amendment. Unless they change their point of view, and I see no willingness on their part to do so, we are fighting the deem as tobacco issue regardless of the other issues attached to it. Reasonable measures for reasonable actions can be handled by reasonable regulations that don't include deeming ecig products as tobacco.
the deeming proposal is not the regulations.
its there proposal outlining the things they will
consider in writing the regulations.
mike
 

zoiDman

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My Batteries and Cotton was not Made or Derived from Tobacco. And neither is intended to be Consumed by a Human. Neither was/is my NiChrome 80.

And they are Not Accessories of a Tobacco Product.

Because I use them in my Personal Variable Wattage Incense Burner. Which I use in accordance with The Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993.

LOL
 

skoony

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My Batteries and Cotton was not Made or Derived from Tobacco. And neither is intended to be Consumed by a Human. Neither was/is my NiChrome 80.

And they are Not Accessories of a Tobacco Product.

Because I use them in my Personal Variable Wattage Incense Burner. Which I use in accordance with The Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993.

LOL
they don't have to be.
they only have to be derived of tobacco or a tobacco
product.the tobacco product in question is the cigarette.
a PV with juice takes the place in whole of the cigarette
tanks,coils,wicks and batteries are intended to be used
in the consumption of tobacco or a tobacco product.
other wise you could not consume the juice.
mike
 

beckdg

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My Batteries and Cotton was not Made or Derived from Tobacco. And neither is intended to be Consumed by a Human. Neither was/is my NiChrome 80.

And they are Not Accessories of a Tobacco Product.

Because I use them in my Personal Variable Wattage Incense Burner. Which I use in accordance with The Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993.

LOL
Tree hugger!

Tapatyped
 
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