Don't let anyone tell you that nicotine is a poison...

[pcrdude]

I'm thinking JMarca is erring on the side of caution, and making sure no one misinterprets this thread and orally consumes nicotine.

Am I right JMarca? If so, good on you. Either way, this thread is chock full of good stuff about the science of toxicology. Did you read all of it? You might enjoy it.

vape On Veeples!

 

[DC2]

Are you serious? Have you ever had a bottle of 100mg in front of you and taken an inhale? The stuff makes you dizzy and light headed almost immediately.

Yes I'm serious.

I am aware that inhaling nicotine fumes is dangerous, but I've never heard it can "damage your lungs" as you stated.
Is this posted in the DIY subforum so everyone is aware of this issue?

 

[bluecat]

Ah, topic anyone?

These ladies are beautiful but they also have stylists, dressers and yeah even fake hair pieces that get clipped in for those red carpet walks. And they are very photogenic.

Now, if you can find pictures of them without all that (besides the one that showed that lady in the bikini. I wanna look like that when I'm her age!) and still think they are hot...... Kudos.

Topic please.

 

[pcrdude]

Toxicity of caffeine -> Acccording to Wikipedia (check the reference cited there if you doubt the accuracy), caffeine has an LD50 of 150-200 mg/kg.

Caffeine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That means about 10 grams of caffeine will kill a person.

Just some data in the thread in case anyone wants to have it handy.

 

[Lifted]

Biologically speaking, any substance is poisonous in large enough amounts. Legally speaking, the parameters used to define a poison are a bit more stringent. Medically speaking, the differences between a poison, a toxin, and a venom is much more useful to make. Getting caught up in semantics is is something we vapors should seek to avoid, or we end up doing the same thing the detractors are doing. Ex: smoking = vaping

Nicotine is a poison at the most basic level. It can have a toxic reaction within the human body. So can alcohol, caffeine, quinine, and oxygen. Matter of fact, most drugs consumed on a daily basis are highly toxic, and carry very strict usage recommendations.

The amount of nicotine present in my e-liquid will not "poison" me (create a toxic reaction) even if I vaped all day. Drinking pure nicotine is very dangerous, but there are much easier ways to kill oneself.

 

[volume control]

Nicotine is a poison though, so really im not going to try and educate someone on a falsity

 

[pcrdude]

snip Nicotine is a poison at the most basic level. snip

Please cite a reference for this claim.

Thanks!

 

[pcrdude]

Is caffeine a poison????

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/25/science/25qna.html?_r=0

 

[DC2]

I just learned that, based on currently accepted LD50 values, capsaicin is more "poisonous" than nicotine.
That was kind of a shocker. I wonder how many of those little red peppers in my Kung Pao chicken that would be.

 

[pcrdude]

Anyone here take, or know someone who takes the anticoagulant warfarin? It's also knon as coumadin. For those prone to blood clots, it is extremely useful for the prevention of strokes and other complications of blood clots.

Can you guess what else it is used as????

Ding ding ding.... Winner, winner, chicken dinner (except Kung Pao).

It's used as a RAT POISON!!!!

So is it a poison or a medicine?

 

[Robino1]

Topic please.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.


Join CASAA and have a voice for vaping.

 

[Uncle Willie]

Anyone here take, or know someone who takes the anticoagulant warfarin? It's also knon as coumadin. For those prone to blood clots, it is extremely useful for the prevention of strokes and other complications of blood clots.

Can you guess what else it is used as????

Ding ding ding.... Winner, winner, chicken dinner (except Kung Pao).

It's used as a RAT POISON!!!!

So is it a poison or a medicine?

Now I can consider that a generic for my Warfarin and save some money ..

 

[Ryedan]

100mg/ml Nicotine CAN kill you, you don't even need to drink it. I do handle 100mg though, only because it's cheaper to get in bulk than something that has to be cut down. Simply inhaling it can leave devastating trauma to the lungs. I DIY, I recommend everyone start around 24mg or 36mg but even that can have some pretty bad results if ingested.

This is the first time I've heard this. Got any hard data on that? I DIY and I don't take the kind of precautions with nic base that I would if this were true.

 

[bluecat]

This is the first time I've heard this. Got any hard data on that? I DIY and I don't take the kind of precautions with nic base that I would if this were true.

Hard data? Not sure it is that type.. But from our DIY sections, stickied... I started DIY a year ago or so... I am not going to search through the threads but can remember seeing a lot of warnings about high strength nic base. I want to say they even spoke about 60mg. (Maybe it has all changed in a year. I swear I read 60 would kill ya)

Mainly this part

"Do not DIY unless you understand the consequences and and can carry out your own testing, as it appears that some vendors are not familiar with how to test their products."


Another link to a thread

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ew-rules-applied-nicotine-discussion-ecf.html

Now time to correct myself.. 100 mg seems okay... it is above this it goes wonky.

 

[generic mutant]

Please cite a reference for this claim.

Thanks!

No reference needed - common usage.

Bleach is a poison. One of the most famous household poisons there is.

Nicotine, in the concentrations we're handling it at, is around that poisonous.

Really, you have to pick. Either you're claiming that there's no such thing as a poison. Or you're claiming that everything is equally a poison. Or you're claiming that everyone is wrong about bleach being a poison. Or you're claiming that nicotine is special, and doesn't count, because you can't bear to hear it spoken harshly of.

Pick.

 

[Fisheeboy]

Seems pretty obvious to me that nicotine is a poison. From what I've seen online (which isn't much) it doesn't take much to kill a person. But of course I am talking pure nicotine. Also seems like poison is poison no matter the amount. I vape 36mg and if I'm not careful I can get too much. First symptom is headache. But there is also the possibility of nausea, vomiting, the squirts, and other symptoms of too much nicotine consumption. Call it an over dose maybe. It's the body's way of reacting to being poisoned. But hey, this is just me giving my I'm no expert by any means. Just a guy that LOVES his nicotine

 

[pcrdude]

No reference needed - common usage.

Bleach is a poison. One of the most famous household poisons there is.

Nicotine, in the concentrations we're handling it at, is around that poisonous.

Really, you have to pick. Either you're claiming that there's no such thing as a poison. Or you're claiming that everything is equally a poison. Or you're claiming that everyone is wrong about bleach being a poison. Or you're claiming that nicotine is special, and doesn't count, because you can't bear to hear it spoken harshly of.

Pick.

Uh, no I really don't have to pick. Not at all. I have been entirely consistent with my argument in this thread. You, on the other hand, have not.

Common usage doesn't really mean anything now does it?

I gave plenty of examples, which you refuse to address.

Is warfarin a medicine or a poison? Usage and dosage dependent.

Are almonds poison because they contain cyanide? Nope.

If you dilute bleach 1:100000000 and drink a glass of it will it be a poison? Nope.

Is botulinum toxin a poison? Dosage dependent. Lots of people that have it injected in their faces are not trying to kill themselves now are they?

I could go on and on, but it just won't matter to you now will it?

I didn't think so.

Too bad, you really should open your mind to scientific principles. You might learn something.

 

[DC2]

Really, you have to pick. Either you're claiming that there's no such thing as a poison. Or you're claiming that everything is equally a poison. Or you're claiming that everyone is wrong about bleach being a poison. Or you're claiming that nicotine is special, and doesn't count, because you can't bear to hear it spoken harshly of.

Pick.

I don't know about anyone else, but I am claiming that pretty much everything is a poison depending on the dose.
That is not one of the options you decided to make available though.

And like everyone else on this thread, I am quite certain that I am right.


But I would go further and say that certain types of people will purposely call nicotine a poison in order to denigrate us.
And I will reject that characterization by those types of people, and encourage others to do the same.

 

[generic mutant]

As transparent attempts to evade the question go, that was pretty transparent. Common usage doesn't mean anything? You started by saying the word poison doesn't have a rigorous definition, now you're telling us common usage is irrelevant. Shall we just redefine 'poison' to mean 'cabbage stew', and be done with it?

My position has been entirely consistent.

Medicines are frequently poisons. Almonds contain poisons.

Please try to keep up.

What is the difference between the status as poisons of bleach and nicotine base liquid?

Just answer the question.

 

[pcrdude]

And the position that DC2 makes is shared by the science of toxicology. There are entire textbooks dedicated to the principle of dosage and toxicity.

Mutant doesn't want to actually think about what has been presented.

For clarity, I reject the concept of the word "poison" a priori. It is a meaningless term in the world of modern toxicological science.

Level of toxicity? Scientific. Dose dependent toxicity? That too.

There is plenty of evidence I (and others) have placed in this thread to support that position.

What is the retort?

Well, nothing but semantics.