Don't let anyone tell you that nicotine is a poison...
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Oh, we don't want to educate people about vaping? I kind of do...i'd like people to understand.
And, while my degree is not in toxicology, i do have a degree in neuroscience. I have actually run dose response curves using nicotine on isolated tissues. I have worked with strychnine and other toxic substances, because i study nicotinic receptors for a living. My research isn't about vaping, but in describing how the receptors function in basic physiological processes.
Toxicology
See also: Nicotine poisoning
The LD50 of nicotine is 50 mg/kg for rats and 3 mg/kg for mice. 30–60 mg (0.5–1.0 mg/kg) can be a lethal dosage for adult humans.[5][62] However the widely used human LD50 estimate of 0.5–1.0 mg/kg was questioned in a 2013 review, in light of several documented cases of humans surviving much higher doses; the 2013 review suggests that the lower limit causing fatal out-comes is 500–1000 mg of ingested nicotine, corresponding to an oral lD50 of 6.5–13 mg/kg .[7] Nevertheless nicotine has a relatively high toxicity in comparison to many other alkaloids such as ......., which has an LD50of 95.1 mg/kg when administered to mice. It is unlikely that a person would overdose on nicotine through smoking alone, although overdose can occur through combined use of nicotine patches or nicotine gum and cigarettes at the same time.[6][unreliable source?] Spilling a high concentration of nicotine onto the skin can cause intoxication or even death, since nicotine readily passes into the bloodstream following dermal contact.[63]
Historically, nicotine has not been regarded as a carcinogen and the IARC has not evaluated nicotine in its standalone form or assigned it to an official carcinogen group. While no epidemiological evidence supports that nicotine alone acts as a carcinogen in the formation of human cancer, research over the last decade has identified nicotine's carcinogenic potential in animal models and cell culture.[64][65] Nicotine has been noted to directly cause cancer through a number of different mechanisms such as the activation of MAP Kinases.[66] Indirectly, nicotine increases cholinergic signalling (and adrenergic signalling in the case of colon cancer[67]), thereby impeding apoptosis (programmed cell death), promoting tumor growth, and activating growth factors and cellular mitogenic factors such as 5-LOX, and EGF. Nicotine also promotes cancer growth by stimulating angiogenesis and neovascularization.[68][69] In one study, nicotine administered to mice with tumors caused increases in tumor size (twofold increase), metastasis (nine-fold increase), and tumor recurrence (threefold increase).[70] N-Nitrosonornicotine (NNN), classified by the IARC as a Group 1 carcinogen, is produced endogenously from nitrite in saliva and nicotine.
The teratogenic properties of nicotine have been investigated. According to a study of about 77,000 pregnant women in Denmark,[citation needed] women who used nicotine gum and patches during the early stages of pregnancy were found to face an increased risk of having babies with birth defects. The study showed that women who used nicotine-replacement therapy in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy had a 60% greater risk of having babies with birth defects compared to women who were non-smokers.[citation needed]
tobacco use among pregnant women has also been correlated to increased frequency of ADHD. Children born to mothers who used tobacco were two and a half times more likely to be diagnosed with ADHD.[71] Froelich estimated that "exposure to higher levels of lead and prenatal tobacco each accounted for 500,000 additional cases of ADHD in U.S. children".[72]
Effective April 1, 1990, the Office of Environmental Health Hazard Assessment (OEHHA) of the California Environmental Protection Agency added nicotine to the list of chemicals known to cause developmental toxicity.[73]
See also: Nicotine poisoning
The LD50 of nicotine is 50 mg/kg for rats and 3 mg/kg for mice. 30–60 mg (0.5–1.0 mg/kg) can be a lethal dosage for adult humans.[5][62] However the widely used human LD50 estimate of 0.5–1.0 mg/kg was questioned in a 2013 review, in light of several documented cases of humans surviving much higher doses; the 2013 review suggests that the lower limit causing fatal out-comes is 500–1000 mg of ingested nicotine, corresponding to an oral lD50 of 6.5–13 mg/kg .[7] Nevertheless nicotine has a relatively high toxicity in comparison to many other alkaloids such as ......., which has an LD50of 95.1 mg/kg when administered to mice. It is unlikely that a person would overdose on nicotine through smoking alone, although overdose can occur through combined use of nicotine patches or nicotine gum and cigarettes at the same time.[6][unreliable source?] Spilling a high concentration of nicotine onto the skin can cause intoxication or even death, since nicotine readily passes into the bloodstream following dermal contact.[63]
Historically, nicotine has not been regarded as a carcinogen and the IARC has not evaluated nicotine in its standalone form or assigned it to an official carcinogen group. While no epidemiological evidence supports that nicotine alone acts as a carcinogen in the formation of human cancer, research over the last decade has identified nicotine's carcinogenic potential in animal models and cell culture.[64][65] Nicotine has been noted to directly cause cancer through a number of different mechanisms such as the activation of MAP Kinases.[66] Indirectly, nicotine increases cholinergic signalling (and adrenergic signalling in the case of colon cancer[67]), thereby impeding apoptosis (programmed cell death), promoting tumor growth, and activating growth factors and cellular mitogenic factors such as 5-LOX, and EGF. Nicotine also promotes cancer growth by stimulating angiogenesis and neovascularization.[68][69] In one study, nicotine administered to mice with tumors caused increases in tumor size (twofold increase), metastasis (nine-fold increase), and tumor recurrence (threefold increase).[70] N-Nitrosonornicotine (NNN), classified by the IARC as a Group 1 carcinogen, is produced endogenously from nitrite in saliva and nicotine.
The teratogenic properties of nicotine have been investigated. According to a study of about 77,000 pregnant women in Denmark,[citation needed] women who used nicotine gum and patches during the early stages of pregnancy were found to face an increased risk of having babies with birth defects. The study showed that women who used nicotine-replacement therapy in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy had a 60% greater risk of having babies with birth defects compared to women who were non-smokers.[citation needed]
tobacco use among pregnant women has also been correlated to increased frequency of ADHD. Children born to mothers who used tobacco were two and a half times more likely to be diagnosed with ADHD.[71] Froelich estimated that "exposure to higher levels of lead and prenatal tobacco each accounted for 500,000 additional cases of ADHD in U.S. children".[72]
Effective April 1, 1990, the Office of Environmental Health Hazard Assessment (OEHHA) of the California Environmental Protection Agency added nicotine to the list of chemicals known to cause developmental toxicity.[73]
Some do and some don't. Or they don't understand that vaping may well be equivalent (if not better
) than the NRTs. If they don't really understand, the our choice of terminology is even more important. And if they're working on outdated toxicology information, then our job of helping them understand that we're trying to use a less harmful alternative becomes even more of an uphill battle.People who think we're exhaling poison because they can see it. Some don't get that we breathe each other's air all the time... all sorts of stuff that comes about because people react rather than think. I'm on the side of encouraging thought rather than reactivity.
Some do and some don't. Or they don't understand that vaping may well be equivalent (if not better
People who think we're exhaling poison because they can see it. Some don't get that we breathe each other's air all the time... all sorts of stuff that comes about because people react rather than think. I'm on the side of encouraging thought rather than reactivity.
I would say that vaping is more effective than NRT but not safer, NRT you are basically getting pure pharmacutical grade nicotine with nothing else, vaping there are more variables... I am not in any way against vaping, I am just saying. Vaping is great for stopping smoking and much more appealing than NRT to smokers, but I would not say it is safer than NRT if thats what you mean.
I was thinking more about effectiveness... there are still some unknowns, but the important comparison for me is relative risk compared to smoking. That one i think we can all agree on.
OK, back to work. interesting discussion though. thanks DC
I'm gonna try and help you again Nirk.
The logical fallacy you used in the above quote is the fallacy of False Dichotomy.
You can Google a whole bunch of Logical Fallacies if you want. It may be usefull to identify flaws in a debate opponent's arguments.
Just sayin'
I think the problem is the condescending comments from some people in this thread, suggesting that referring to nicotine as a poison is wrong. I understand the point of this thread, I was just saying that by any definition, nicotine is actually a poison. Vaping is great and nicotine is relatively harmless compared to smoking, but it is a poison, call me pedantic if you want, but it is!
I'm gonna try and help you again Nirk.
The logical fallacy you used in the above quote is the fallacy of False Dichotomy.
You can Google a whole bunch of Logical Fallacies if you want. It may be usefull to identify flaws in a debate opponent's arguments.
Just sayin'
Please be quiet.
Lord, I should be dead. I've smoked many times WHILE wearing the patch. And not the low dose one. I never got nic sick either. I'm so damn lucky I guess.
Oh Nirk, you were almost there......
The term poison doesn't have meaning in the science of toxicology. All you had to do was read the first page of the Cornell pdf....
Would it help if I just copied it and posted it directly?
Ok you are right then, the word poison does not actually exist and it was not used in the title of this thread, clearly I am just imagining it all.
Lets face it here, by any stretch of the imagination, nicotine is not good for you, except that it improves your mood and may help with some disorders such as parkinsons, this thread gives the impression that nicotine is 100% harmless which is not the case. As someone who vapes nicotine I am willing to accept this, I am not going to try to convince myself or anyone else that it is completely harmless even at low doses.
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I agree that nicotine is NOT completely harmless. There is the "smoker's paradox" that describes some of the benefits of nicotine, and there are now ways to administer nicotine without the harmful smoke. Hopefully, more scientific studies will be performed to help elucidate this paradoxical molecule.
@ Nirk -> I didn't write that the word didn't exist, nor that it is without use in colloquial speech and writing.
I wrote that it is scientifically meaningless without the inclusion of dose as it pertains to toxicology.
Two entirely different things.
@ Nirk -> I didn't write that the word didn't exist, nor that it is without use in colloquial speech and writing.
I wrote that it is scientifically meaningless without the inclusion of dose as it pertains to toxicology.
Two entirely different things.
Lucky is right! I barfed my freaking brains out once from that. Lol
Sent from my LG G2, using Smack-a-talk HD.
Yes I agree but you have changed your tune a lot since the start of the thread.
Stop arguing with people that don't want to listen. Starting topics of this nature on public forums and screaming to the world how Nicotine is not toxic... please!
There will be some fool one day in the newspaper that drank a quarter gallon of Nicotine while doing god knows what and will get seriously hurt or killed one day. When they ask the family members what lead him to it why he/she did such a thing they'll say ummm... Nicotine isn't poisonous, I read it on a forum on the internet, it must be true!
Then that family will start another anti-campaign and these guys can come on here and say what the family is doing is wrong. These guys are about as smart as the guys why showed up to the NYC hearing and started smoking their PVs in the hallway.
There will be some fool one day in the newspaper that drank a quarter gallon of Nicotine while doing god knows what and will get seriously hurt or killed one day. When they ask the family members what lead him to it why he/she did such a thing they'll say ummm... Nicotine isn't poisonous, I read it on a forum on the internet, it must be true!
Then that family will start another anti-campaign and these guys can come on here and say what the family is doing is wrong. These guys are about as smart as the guys why showed up to the NYC hearing and started smoking their PVs in the hallway.
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