Maybe at first but once both flavors are completely steeped I think you would wind wind up with the same end result as if you mixed both flavors at the same time. I think percentage plays a bigger part then add flavor 1, steep then add flavor 2.
Doubting the "Science" behind steeping
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Maybe at first but once both flavors are completely steeped I think you would wind wind up with the same end result as if you mixed both flavors at the same time. I think percentage plays a bigger part then add flavor 1, steep then add flavor 2.
If the liquid smells like perfume or alcohol I leave it uncapped to evaporate the alcohol.
I set the container of my DIY mixes in hot water until it's thin from the warmth then shake the heck out of it to blend.
Usually it sits a day or two until I get around to trying it, and I shake it again before I sample.
If I still don't like the taste after those measures, I never will. At least I haven't found any exceptions yet.
I set the container of my DIY mixes in hot water until it's thin from the warmth then shake the heck out of it to blend.
Usually it sits a day or two until I get around to trying it, and I shake it again before I sample.
If I still don't like the taste after those measures, I never will. At least I haven't found any exceptions yet.
What about Black Honey tobacco? It's pretty darn gross on day 1, gets better week by week until week 4/5 when it becomes pretty darn great. What gives?
Great theories all around. As for anecdotal evidence, you go to the juice bar and try some new flavors. You find one that is really great and just cannot leave without getting a bottle to take home. With great anticipation, you arrive home and load it up into your tank, dripper, what have you, and vape it ... errrrghh... where is that great taste you fell in love with at the juice bar? Well, at the juice bar, that juice has been sitting in the sample tanks for a while. A day or two? A week? A month? They steeped in the tanks at the juice bar and the flavor fully developed...
Here's my 2 cents on it...
For those that have made a big pot of chicken and dumpling, spaghetti sauce or anything that has a 'soup' type liquid taste and had left overs for the next day will notice that even though it tasted really good the day it was made, it seems to be a LOT better the next day. Even though we are talking about a 'food' with my last statement, the theory would still hold true with the flavors in our mixes we create... IMO
For those that have steeped their own tobacco and/or coffee age and steeping is an absolute must... it intensifies over time. (along with the bitterness of both)
Now back to our flavors and juice mixes... I believe what's changes the flavors in the 'blend' is heat, then cold, then back to normal room temperature. We see this happen in our cooking, so why would it be any different in our mixes...?
The secret, I believe, is in temperature... making it hot, then cold then back to the ambient 'room' temperature. Personally, I think the only reason for any color change in Nic or the individual flavors is just it's reacting to oxygen... (very simply put)
I'm going to do an experiment in a few minutes to prove a theory either way...
I have a really good TFA Strawberry/TFA- Pomegranate mixture with the TFA-Sweetener mixed at 50/50 VG/PG at 18% Nicotine.
Here is what i'm going to do:
From the same bulk bottle, i'm going to take equal amounts of the mix and put them into 3 empty bottles of boiled and cleaned out "5 hour energy" and fill each with 20ml.
One of them i'm going to just set-up on the shelf, capped for one full week, untouched
With the second one i'm going to heat up once a day at noon to 130 degrees and put back on the shelf and allow it to cool naturally.
The third one i'm going to do the same as bottle 2 only, this time i'm going to put it in the fridge (our fridge temp is kept at 46 degrees) as soon as I have it heated up to 130 degrees and let it cool in there for one hour, then place it on the shelf to return to room temperature and not touched until the next day when it's time to heat it back up again.
I'll make SURE that this same procedure is followed for a full 7 days. I too would like to know the actual truth of what steeping does to our mixes and if it truly changes or not. We all already know that there is a color change so, that's not as important but, if steeping does actually work, (which I truly think it does) then we'll have a "proof" of something here. If it DOES make it better then, i'll have a procedure that i'll follow each time I make a new batch.
I think the secret is in the heating and cooling as it might blend it better molecularly... but, question is, what will it do to the juice where the flavor is concerned....? I have a couple friends that i'm going to let try them and i'll post their opinions as well. Also I'll be posting pics as well to show any color differences too... this will be fun.
Danoman...
For those that have made a big pot of chicken and dumpling, spaghetti sauce or anything that has a 'soup' type liquid taste and had left overs for the next day will notice that even though it tasted really good the day it was made, it seems to be a LOT better the next day. Even though we are talking about a 'food' with my last statement, the theory would still hold true with the flavors in our mixes we create... IMO
For those that have steeped their own tobacco and/or coffee age and steeping is an absolute must... it intensifies over time. (along with the bitterness of both)
Now back to our flavors and juice mixes... I believe what's changes the flavors in the 'blend' is heat, then cold, then back to normal room temperature. We see this happen in our cooking, so why would it be any different in our mixes...?
The secret, I believe, is in temperature... making it hot, then cold then back to the ambient 'room' temperature. Personally, I think the only reason for any color change in Nic or the individual flavors is just it's reacting to oxygen... (very simply put)
I'm going to do an experiment in a few minutes to prove a theory either way...
I have a really good TFA Strawberry/TFA- Pomegranate mixture with the TFA-Sweetener mixed at 50/50 VG/PG at 18% Nicotine.
Here is what i'm going to do:
From the same bulk bottle, i'm going to take equal amounts of the mix and put them into 3 empty bottles of boiled and cleaned out "5 hour energy" and fill each with 20ml.
One of them i'm going to just set-up on the shelf, capped for one full week, untouched
With the second one i'm going to heat up once a day at noon to 130 degrees and put back on the shelf and allow it to cool naturally.
The third one i'm going to do the same as bottle 2 only, this time i'm going to put it in the fridge (our fridge temp is kept at 46 degrees) as soon as I have it heated up to 130 degrees and let it cool in there for one hour, then place it on the shelf to return to room temperature and not touched until the next day when it's time to heat it back up again.
I'll make SURE that this same procedure is followed for a full 7 days. I too would like to know the actual truth of what steeping does to our mixes and if it truly changes or not. We all already know that there is a color change so, that's not as important but, if steeping does actually work, (which I truly think it does) then we'll have a "proof" of something here. If it DOES make it better then, i'll have a procedure that i'll follow each time I make a new batch.
I think the secret is in the heating and cooling as it might blend it better molecularly... but, question is, what will it do to the juice where the flavor is concerned....? I have a couple friends that i'm going to let try them and i'll post their opinions as well. Also I'll be posting pics as well to show any color differences too... this will be fun.
Danoman...
We need to get some 'hard' facts on the subject... Personally, I think it DOES change as mentioned before. Thing is, I believe it's at a molecular level. Warming and then rapidly cooling it will help break up the molecules so they should be more evenly blended. (it's works this was when i'm making a batch from raw tobacco and coffee, should do the very same here with just the flavoring) So, it's a test i'd really like to know for myself...
P.S. Speaking of, I have 3 bottles set up in different "5 Hours energy" drink containers to start the full test tomorrow at 12:00 Noon. (of course, the containers were boiled out, dried and clean before I filled it with 20ml per bottle. Each are labeled for real world test... who knows...? But, this should prove something either way...
Just to add my 0.02's
SO If I steep a juice and find after 2 weeks it's perfect, what happens if I let it steep longer? if the flavor continues to mellow or come out and I like it at 2 weeks but not at a month as it has mellowed to much....Should I make a 5ml bottle everyday and then everyday pull the 2 week to the day steep juice and vape it until the 24 hours is up and throw excess away...
Not really just saying what is the flat line of or point that it does not affect it anymore?
SO If I steep a juice and find after 2 weeks it's perfect, what happens if I let it steep longer? if the flavor continues to mellow or come out and I like it at 2 weeks but not at a month as it has mellowed to much....Should I make a 5ml bottle everyday and then everyday pull the 2 week to the day steep juice and vape it until the 24 hours is up and throw excess away...
Not really just saying what is the flat line of or point that it does not affect it anymore?
We need to get some 'hard' facts on the subject... Personally, I think it DOES change as mentioned before. Thing is, I believe it's at a molecular level. Warming and then rapidly cooling it will help break up the molecules so they should be more evenly blended. (it's works this was when i'm making a batch from raw tobacco and coffee, should do the very same here with just the flavoring) So, it's a test i'd really like to know for myself...
P.S. Speaking of, I have 3 bottles set up in different "5 Hours energy" drink containers to start the full test tomorrow at 12:00 Noon. (of course, the containers were boiled out, dried and clean before I filled it with 20ml per bottle. Each are labeled for real world test... who knows...? But, this should prove something either way...
Sounds like a very interesting experiment. Please keep us posted.
Or you can make 5 batches at different flavor persentages and steep them all at once. After a pre determined amount of time regardless if its 2,3,4,5 weeks test them all at once. I'm sure one of them will be to your satification.
Different Flavors and flavor combinations will have different maturity times so there's no real way of nailing it down until you've actually steeped the juice. After that you will know how long it takes.
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I don't know how to answer your question Kaos. I have made and bought liquids that were pretty bland then turned wonderful then vaped them all up before they had a chance to go bad. I only vape 3 to 6 mls per day, and I have 20 or 30 bottles of liquids here, so I would say they are very very well steeped. Flavor fade does happen, but for me, it happens in the first few days, not after weeks or months.
I think some of y'all are overthinking this. I'm not a scientist or a business owner, I'm just a tinkerer, trying to make decent liquids to keep me off cigarettes, and save some money in the process. If I have anything to tell you, it's do whatever works for You. You're creating it, you're vaping it, your hobby, your time spent testing and tweaking mixes until they are perfect for you. Steep as you will
I think some of y'all are overthinking this. I'm not a scientist or a business owner, I'm just a tinkerer, trying to make decent liquids to keep me off cigarettes, and save some money in the process. If I have anything to tell you, it's do whatever works for You. You're creating it, you're vaping it, your hobby, your time spent testing and tweaking mixes until they are perfect for you. Steep as you will
interesting...but
my local vape shops dont go in the back and whip me up a fresh batch of juice....
side note , why do we still say "steep"? we arent infusing anything into our juices while they sit in the closet are we? ie a teabag steeping in water
interesting topic none the less, because shouldnt the flavors from the vendors had plenty of time to "steep" already?
dumb question? idk, im here to learn like everyone else, im sure theyve sat on a shelf somewhere for weeks? months? before going in a mailbox
is it like soaking yourself in perfume or cologne? ( which would more be accurate to steeping lol ) you drive people away with your potency? even after applying layer upon layer of your perfume/cologne you'll eventually mellow out and be bearable, even likable
who really knows
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Idk. I used the term steep because it seems to be an accepted term for this process by the community, as opposed to its function. As far as the question of what really happens to the juice, no one really knows (yet). I have a hunch that it is about air exchange. There is no doubt that some substances (such as alcohol) have volatile fractions that will off-gas when the cap is left off the bottle. Other changes can happen to other substances when the air is exchanged in the bottle. The air in the mixing lab where the juice was made has different levels and types of "impurities" than the air in your home, and perhaps this is responsible for some of the changes. Other hypotheses include oxygenation and other gas exchanges (remember that air is only about 20% oxygen, the rest is nitrogen and other gases). Flavor components "spreading out" into the VG and/or PG base(s) in the bottle would occur whether the lid is on or off, so length of time in sitting is the factor there. Without an analysis lab equipped with a gas chromatograph olfactometer, an electrogustometer, and other fancy expensive machines to test juices in different stages, it is really hard to determine what is actually occurring. Anecdotal evidence suggests that, whether you want to call the process steeping, aging, breathing, what-have-you, cap-on/cap-off, shaking, letting it sit for ? hours/days/weeks, etc., improves the flavors of some juices. Why? How? Good questions.
Edit: side note, I received a card with my most recent arrival from Halo that said, "The taste of your Halo e-liquid will change considerably over the first 24-48 hours after being opened. When Halo e-liquid is kept too cold, the flavor can be diminished and even taste flavorless. As your e-liquid adjusts back to room temperature, the flavor will increase dramatically. Please do not refrigerate." This suggests to me that regardless of how long the juice sits after being made, it requires the act of opening to start the "steeping" process, lending to my theory about air exchange.
Edit: side note, I received a card with my most recent arrival from Halo that said, "The taste of your Halo e-liquid will change considerably over the first 24-48 hours after being opened. When Halo e-liquid is kept too cold, the flavor can be diminished and even taste flavorless. As your e-liquid adjusts back to room temperature, the flavor will increase dramatically. Please do not refrigerate." This suggests to me that regardless of how long the juice sits after being made, it requires the act of opening to start the "steeping" process, lending to my theory about air exchange.
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just another idk question but arent three of the main four ingredients ( nic, pg, vg )all degraded by heat and or air?
ie cap on/cap off, warm bath
man we need a chemist or scientist in here asap
ie cap on/cap off, warm bath
man we need a chemist or scientist in here asap
"Our results show that a plot of the percentage of (+)-(R)-nicotine as a percentage of the total amount of nicotine is flat across the temperature range 200–1000°C"
Translated into layman's English, nicotine subjected to a heat test does not degrade below temperatures of 1000°C. Here is the study: The Pyrolysis of (
Vegetable glycerine is stable up to 278°C. When VG reaches this point, it pyrolyzes (burns) and releases a toxic substance called acrolein. Propylene glycol can acidify slightly at temperatures above 40°C, but sunlight (UV-A) is what damages it the most.
Yes, I am a scientist, LOL.
I like the term RELAXING the liquid.
A while a go a guy on Reddit ran some tests using a spectrum analyzer, the untreated liquid is almost 100% the same as the steeped liquid except for a very tiny perfumey bit. Here is a link: Final result of chemical analyses of steeping
When you get real science involved and not perception... Anyway there is an actual flavor change. That tiny bit that changes may have large impact on perception of flavor. The whole idea of things blending like salsa or spaghetti sauce was disproven by an organic chemist. Basically if it could blend like salsa it could spoil like salsa. e-liquid is organically dead. The relaxing process is a chemical degradation that some people find enjoyable.
A while a go a guy on Reddit ran some tests using a spectrum analyzer, the untreated liquid is almost 100% the same as the steeped liquid except for a very tiny perfumey bit. Here is a link: Final result of chemical analyses of steeping
When you get real science involved and not perception... Anyway there is an actual flavor change. That tiny bit that changes may have large impact on perception of flavor. The whole idea of things blending like salsa or spaghetti sauce was disproven by an organic chemist. Basically if it could blend like salsa it could spoil like salsa. e-liquid is organically dead. The relaxing process is a chemical degradation that some people find enjoyable.
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Say what? Chemical & physical reactions (most certainly) do take place between "organically dead" chemicals. They may be different than the actions & reactions that occur with live microbes, but a chemical/substance 'without life' can & does react with different chemicals. 'Just throw some dead/pasteurized vinegard (acid) in with some dead bicarbonate of soda...puhWOOF - FIZZ!
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