Dr. Eissenberg got a KR808...
- Thread starter Belletrist
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
Belle, you could be right that the lack of increase in heart rate is an artifact due to not measuring at the right times. If it's a real/consistent effect it might be a good thing. If the absorbed nicotine doesn't increase heart rate it could be one more line of evidence that vaporized nicotine is safer than tobacco smoke.
I vaped up to 120 accidentally once... normally @70. Have done the same thing by accidentally smoking while on patches, and with cigarettes alone. But if I'd pulled in as much from a cig as I was vaping that night I'd have vomited. Nice thing about that liability is that it's really about impossible to OD on nicotine intake that you're controlling - you feel it well before the danger zone and it's nasty. But ya, it's nicotine - heart rate goes up if you overdo. (Went back to normal within 15 minutes.)
Last edited:
thanks- i thought heart rate increases were part of the effects of nicotine. was just hoping that perhaps increases were primarily a signal of too much nicotine, and that they might be less with "normal" use. that's what i get for speculating about things that haven't been completely tested yet. 
oh, but i think it's a worthwhile speculation, CES... it may not be across the board consistent anecdotally spealking--but if there's a reason behind his initial results, one that can be reproduced... i think there's the potential for something good there. but yeah, it's all very very preliminary. still, just awesome he tested to begin with.
it is great that he tested. this may be OT, but when i started grad school my first rotation was in a lab that tested pain thresholds (without causing harm/damage). before i could administer the tests, i had to have them done to me first. two primary reasons: so i knew how to administer them properly and knew exactly what they felt like.
I hope he doesn't end up with the "Madam Curie" award, experimenting with himself on such an addictive drug, but he's an expert - don't try that at home, you non-smokers!
I'm suddenly swamped, but I'm kinda kicking around building a wearable simple realtime datalogging HRM/EEG/GSR. I think I could leverage a little arduino and build it in an afternoon. Maybe just a single button to tap when I start vaping and when I stop vaping so the data can be correlated. May provide some interesting datapoints.
Yes, I agree the absorption could be a time-release effect. Mucosa? Might not even be coming in through the lungs, maybe gastric or intestinal mucosa?
Belle, since you seem to have some inside line somewhere, I'd be curious to hear given the other NRT delivery methods how they effect (and affect) uptake and heart-rate. If we take a patch, for example, that's being delivered into the bloodstream in a time-release form. How does it impact heart rate and BP? NRT Gum has to operate in some form of uptake from the oral, esophageal, or gastric/intestinal mucosa - how does it effect HR? If there's correlation than maybe combining those data-points will yield a hypothesis that can then be tested?
I'm just throwing stuff against the wall here, obviously it's a big fat unknown mechanism today. Fascinating - wish I were in a better place to explore it, but I say that about darned near everything.
I'm suddenly swamped, but I'm kinda kicking around building a wearable simple realtime datalogging HRM/EEG/GSR. I think I could leverage a little arduino and build it in an afternoon. Maybe just a single button to tap when I start vaping and when I stop vaping so the data can be correlated. May provide some interesting datapoints.
Yes, I agree the absorption could be a time-release effect. Mucosa? Might not even be coming in through the lungs, maybe gastric or intestinal mucosa?
Belle, since you seem to have some inside line somewhere, I'd be curious to hear given the other NRT delivery methods how they effect (and affect) uptake and heart-rate. If we take a patch, for example, that's being delivered into the bloodstream in a time-release form. How does it impact heart rate and BP? NRT Gum has to operate in some form of uptake from the oral, esophageal, or gastric/intestinal mucosa - how does it effect HR? If there's correlation than maybe combining those data-points will yield a hypothesis that can then be tested?
I'm just throwing stuff against the wall here, obviously it's a big fat unknown mechanism today. Fascinating - wish I were in a better place to explore it, but I say that about darned near everything.
well, after calling around some, it's possible that if the nicotine is being absorbed through the GI system somehow, it could be processed through the liver in a different way (i'm sorry i don't have the medical know how to explain this technically, but the person i asked does, and i'm sure one of you can translate it into real science, lol), which could mitigate the slam-bam-wow physiological effects on the cardiovascular system. all hypothetical...
i do have a pal with access to a lot of studies on pubmed, etc, i'll have 'im pull some of the NRT stuffs.
i do have a pal with access to a lot of studies on pubmed, etc, i'll have 'im pull some of the NRT stuffs.
I OD'ed on nicotine once and it was horrible! I was working alone one night outside and was really craving a cig. I remembered a co-worker had some nicorette gum stashed so I took a piece. Never having used it before I didn't know you were supposed to chew it slowly and sporadically. About 5 minutes of chomping away on the gum [ and doing hard work], I became nauseous, dizzy and my heart felt like it was going to jump out of my chest8-o
Never touched the stuff again!
Never touched the stuff again!
Ya, we have mountains of anecdotal stuff and the rest is largely dismissible for one reason or another. O well. I'm old, and in my experience mountains of anecdotes generally prove out. Not always, but generally. They move the lawmakers, also - good to remember that. (Confirming the fact that the things deliver nicotine doesn't seem particularly helpful - or unhelpful - on that front. What am I missing, except that someone is actually doing objective research?)
... but maybe i'm so jaded that this is enough to get me excited.
It shows we are getting what we pay for. At least from V4L. And that is important to me as a consumer in general. Beyond that, I am still wrestling with what I think constitutes good news in terms of FDA regulation. Not sure if this it or not.
Hey guys I will chime in with my medical knowledge. Nicotine is absorbed through the oral and gi mucosa as well as the parenchyma of the lung. With ecigs I would bet we are still absorbing a significant amount through our lungs, but also a small amount through our oral and gi mucosa(which is slower than the lungs). There is a significant first pass metabolism through the liver 80/90 percent breakdown of any absorbed through our gi tract so the majority is still being absorbed by our lungs which bypass that to a significant extent. My question is whether or not the pg has an effect of slowing down the absorption rate in the lungs.
Determining for sure where the nic is absorbed is fairly important to me. It shapes how I vape. When I read most of it is in the mouth and throat, I bypassed direct inhale for the more traditional "smoking way" of mouth first, then lungs. Also hung on to it a bit longer. If lungs are still a primary source of absorption, then a change is needed to get the most of a vape.
Here is a link of a study on Monkeys living in PG vapor for months straight. Published in 1942 Medicine: Air Germicide - TIME
Maxx, yes - I think I commented on the study I'd like to see in Director Eissenberg's thread.
Feta, that's an interesting conjecture vis PG altering point of uptake and/or bioavailability and timeline. Just as a single datapoint, I seem to have more carry-over in the morning. I don't have that incredible desperation when I roll out of bed that I had with cigarettes.
From my work in video production and having to scrub the sticky PG residue off the floors on-location from the fog machines, I'm wondering if, related to your point, if there's possibly some encapsulation mechanism there, then the body breaks down the PG residue releasing further nicotine or metabolites of nicotine into the bloodstream either directly or through the GI tract, or even through some lung mechanism where maybe the cilium agitate and "clean up" the PG there-by exciting the encapsulated material. Your thoughts/speculations?
Feta, that's an interesting conjecture vis PG altering point of uptake and/or bioavailability and timeline. Just as a single datapoint, I seem to have more carry-over in the morning. I don't have that incredible desperation when I roll out of bed that I had with cigarettes.
From my work in video production and having to scrub the sticky PG residue off the floors on-location from the fog machines, I'm wondering if, related to your point, if there's possibly some encapsulation mechanism there, then the body breaks down the PG residue releasing further nicotine or metabolites of nicotine into the bloodstream either directly or through the GI tract, or even through some lung mechanism where maybe the cilium agitate and "clean up" the PG there-by exciting the encapsulated material. Your thoughts/speculations?
It does seem that he used Vapor4Life. And I think it very likely that he'll now use Vapor4Life in future more formal tests because it is the one brand he's tried so far which he can be fairly sure to be delivering the goods.I would also like to point out that he used Cowboy flavor, which as far as I know is a name only used by Vapor4Life!!
- Status
