Dr. Siegel's New Website!

[sherid]

Where did you get the idea that 4,000 chemical existed in 2nd hand smoke? Do you have any citations to analyses other than anti-smoking rhetoric?

Trolls surround us, even here.

 

[HK45]

Bull crap. You would do better to post this crap on ASH's site; however you have to pay to do that. Any semi intelligent person would be able to recognize a troll.

I'm sure you do everytime you look in a mirror.

 

[grimmer255]

Your experiences mirror mine. The denormalization campaign has created some great little soldiers even on this board.

well I was a soldier in the US Army.

 

[grimmer255]

i'm sure you do everytime you look in a mirror.

lol.......

 

[grimmer255]

If you are a supplier, remind me to NEVER buy anything from you. Really....third hand smoke, a joke inflicted upon the people, a series of questions in a telephone survey with absolutely NO scientific basis.

when did I say i was a supplier.

 

[Two-A-T]

... the definition of abuse also includes acts or circumstances that threaten the child with harm or create a substantial risk of harm to the child's health or welfare.4

Can you cite any specific and provable examples of any court in the United States using this as grounds to convict a parent/guardian/caregiver/ANYONE with "child abuse" for exposing them to ANY form of smoke (cigarette, fireplace, camp fires, fireworks, food smokers, ... the list of activities and things that produce smoke with harmful carcinogens goes ON and ON!)?

If your answer is no then it is NOT recognized or interpreted by the legal system as child abuse and until it is, you need to back off on such claims as being anything more than YOUR OWN OPINION!!!

 

[ladyraj]

When statistics are against e-cigs we blame big pharma and tobacco. When statistics from these same sources come in and suit our position we say look at this they say I'm not doing anything wrong. You believe them when it suits your purpose yet cry lies! conspiracy! when they don't. Kind of hypocritical, don't you think?

Big pharma and tobacco money is behind this just like everything else. You just cherry-pick to suit your agenda. ;-)

AHHH...UMMM...! Glimmer was asking us to check "facts" so I used facts that anti-smokers use. By the way you haven't refuted the figures. But then again, it's as Homer Simpson succinctly stated: "You can get statistics to say anything." Same problem we are facing with the e-cig fight!

 

[grimmer255]

Can you cite any specific and provable examples of any court in the United States using this as grounds to convict a parent/guardian/caregiver/ANYONE with "child abuse" for exposing them to ANY form of smoke (cigarette, fireplace, camp fires, fireworks, food smokers, ... the list of activities and things that produce smoke with harmful carcinogens goes ON and ON!)?

If your answer is no then it is NOT recognized or interpreted by the legal system as child abuse and until it is, you need to back off on such claims as being anything more than YOUR OWN OPINION!!!

Im giving you the definition ......not example.....the above definition is why they want to ban parents from smoking in front of children.

 

[grimmer255]

Jeesh this is a waist of time....some people no matter how much facts and test are put in front of them they just dont understand that some things kill regardless if you like it or not.

 

[ladyraj]

well I was a soldier in the US Army.

Air Force vet here, husband-special forces 24 years still works for DoD, sons in Navy and USAF (1 in Iraq as we type), father a vet of WWII, great uncles served in WWI, g-grandfather was a drumerboy in the Civil War.

 

[sherid]

I'm sure you do everytime you look in a mirror.

Wrong forum, bucko. If you want to insult smokers, head over to ASH or Topix.

 

[grimmer255]

Air Force vet here, husband-special forces 24 years still works for DoD, sons in Navy and USAF (1 in Iraq as we type), father a vet of WWII, great uncles served in WWI, g-grandfather was a drumerboy in the Civil War.

lady lets not go there my family was military up to 6 generations. So lets leave that out of it.

 

[sherid]

when did I say i was a supplier.

Thank God, you are not.

 

[HK45]

Bull crap. You would do better to post this crap on ASH's site; however you have to pay to do that. Any semi intelligent person would be able to recognize a troll.

A psychologist resorting to swearing and name-calling. That kind of strong, juvenile, emotional response is usually ellicited by the truth or guilt, wouldn't you say?

By the way, you don't sound like a very good psychologist. I would never come to you in private practice...really. Oh, maybe that's why you're not in private practice. What does your shrink say?

 

[ramblingrose]

believe what you want but cigs contain 4000 chemicals and 40 carcinogens and 2nd hand smoke contains the same. Give me numbers and better proof than that because I already know people who suffer from 2nd hand smoke. cigarettes killl 400,000 people every year. 2nd hand smoke kills 35,000-65,000 people every year these are facts not some random B.S. Believe what you want but by I go by numbers and facts. And many doctors will tell you that 2nd hand smoke kills.

Grimmer, there's no question that smoking kills and is unpleasant to be around. But, while there's little doubt second hand smoke effects some people's health, thanks to the antis' data manipulation, the actual risk is less clear. It has been proven that the second hand smoke data used by the Surgeon General was manipulated to exaggerate the results. The selected - seriously skewed! - results have been cited ever since in the war on smoking. Studies that did not agree with the desired results were not included in the pooled data. One study that was included had results based on rats DIRECTLY INHALING second hand smoke through a tube from the smoke emitting device. As in no outside air and no time off the machine. An independent study concluded that it was actually at least 3,000 times the pollutants of second hand smoke humans are exposed to in a smoking environment. That's just one example; there are others.

Just as the FDA is reporting what they choose to report to suit their anti e-cig agenda, the surgeon general's report reported only the results that fit an anti-smoking policy.

Grimmer255
2nd hand smoke carries the same risk because they contain the same chemicals. Again children cant simply tell mom and dad to put out there smokes. You guys are lucky not to have problems as many other have had. Im not some activist. I simply believe that knowingly placing your child around an environment that can cause many ailments is child abuse.

Child abuse? If you believe 2nd hand smoke is as dangerous as smoking, I have a nice bridge to sell ya. Don't you find it just a little amazing that so many of these childhood diseases linked to 2nd hand smoke only came to be at the same time smokers became evil pariahs? And that societies are spewing more and more pollutants into the atmosphere at the same respiratory illnesses are on the rise?

I'm certainly not advocating smoking around kids. But I have to say... many of us older forum members grew up as children of smokers in a society where smoking was virtually everywhere - planes, trains, buses, cars, movie theaters, restaurants, bars, casinos, schools, universities, even in hospitals. We did just fine, thank you.

 

[grimmer255]

all im saying figure out folks 2nd hand smoke contains the same chemicals as first hand smoke...do the math be back tomorrow have fun.

 

[ladyraj]

Jeesh this is a waist of time....some people no matter how much facts and test are put in front of them they just dont understand that some things kill regardless if you like it or not.

When one fails to refute the queries of evidence contrary to one's convictions and beliefs they bow out and leave the field. Honorable people allow a honorable retreat. Have a great day and please check out a little more of the Doc's website. -Ruth

 

[HK45]

Wrong forum, bucko. If you want to insult smokers, head over to ASH or Topix.

If I read correctly you started the insults by calling people trolls, bucko! How's your short-term memory?

 

[ladyraj]

A psychologist resorting to swearing and name-calling. That kind of strong, juvenile, emotional response is usually ellicited by the truth or guilt, wouldn't you say?

By the way, you don't sound like a very good psychologist. I would never come to you in private practice...really. Oh, maybe that's why you're not in private practice. What does your shrink say?

AHHH...your mixing my friend Sherid with ladyraj, please re-read the entries before you attack the wrong person to make your point.

Me...ladyraj, not sherid...8-o Got it?

 

[grimmer255]

Grimmer, there's no question that smoking kills and is unpleasant to be around. But, while there's little doubt second hand smoke effects some people's health, thanks to the antis' data manipulation, the actual risk is less clear. It has been proven that the second hand smoke data used by the Surgeon General was manipulated to exaggerate the results. The selected - seriously skewed! - results have been cited ever since in the war on smoking. Studies that did not agree with the desired results were not included in the pooled data. One study that was included had results based on rats DIRECTLY INHALING second hand smoke through a tube from the smoke emitting device. As in no outside air and no time off the machine. An independent study concluded that it was actually at least 3,000 times the pollutants of second hand smoke humans are exposed to in a smoking environment. That's just one example; there are others.

Just as the FDA is reporting what they choose to report to suit their anti e-cig agenda, the surgeon general's report reported only the results that fit an anti-smoking policy.

Child abuse? If you believe 2nd hand smoke is as dangerous as smoking, I have a nice bridge to sell ya. Don't you find it just a little amazing that so many of these childhood diseases linked to 2nd hand smoke only came to be at the same time smokers became evil pariahs? And that societies are spewing more and more pollutants into the atmosphere at the same respiratory illnesses are on the rise?

I'm certainly not advocating smoking around kids. But I have to say... many of us older forum members grew up as children of smokers in a society where smoking was virtually everywhere - planes, trains, buses, cars, movie theaters, restaurants, bars, casinos, schools, universities, even in hospitals. We did just fine, thank you.

Last thing and i have to go....there were never studies done of 2nd hand smoke then and if you go back 30-40 years you will see these same ailments and most of the parents were smokers. figure that one out.....