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Dramatic loss in taste and smell of EVERYTHING since vaping

Discussion in 'Health, Safety and Vaping' started by Amerglass, Dec 12, 2018.

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  1. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    I got no clue honestly. It sounds like a pretty horrendous, watery vape to me. I think the common wisdom is not more than 10% distilled water, which I have not done. I have inadvertently filled tanks that weren't dry and it got pretty bad, tho.

    Thing is, you aren't at the "common wisdom" point, so I'd kind of say, what do you have to lose by trying it? I think it may suck A LOT, but like, if a watery terrible vape doesn't make you sick, well that's not so horrible, I guess.

    I would say try it to see what happens, but I'd keep my fingers firmly crossed. I'm not sure if 50/50 good old water is even VAPABLE, and you'd need to heat it to more or less STEAM, etc.

    But again, I have no clue.

    Anna
     
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  2. Amerglass

    Amerglass Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 12, 2018
    You're that winner to me... 10 ml + a day.... that would get me off the cigs. No wonder U have some PG intollerance with that intake. However lower than 3mg of nic makes it some 30 mg/day which equals a pack of smokes.

    I'd be happy to just come closer to 8,9,10 mg tops a day.

    Dear rabbit RDA ordered but will take time, some 3 weeks probably.
    Thanks Anna.
     
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  3. Fiestylillady

    Fiestylillady Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 14, 2017
    USA
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  4. tailland

    tailland Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 11, 2018
    Germany
    Inhalation_1.jpg
    Anyone who has ever done that may probably remember the following:
    - Water vaporizes at much lower temps than PGVG. That gives you the chance for a cool vape, plus it's the reason why I'd advise for lower wattage use than normal.
    - You can dissolve NaCl (table salt) in water to get antibacterial/fungal properties you'd otherwise have with PG. HOWEVER, this could make the distilled water conductive. Careful experimentation is due.

    I think there is a real chance to make it work. Will take some thoughtful testing with temps, pre-heat, power cuve, etc.. but hey, better than running around with a sore mouth, right? And if you make it work, you can pride yourself in having a completely unique setup and call other vapers "amateurs" when they ask you about your VGPG juice ratio :p

    Well, what can I do? I LOVE chucking big clouds, so the ml-use per day comes with the territory. Lowering nics then is only logical. The consequence of all potential problems being magnified with such a large intake gives you the chance to troubleshoot your setup to a very high degree. I'm okay with that.
     
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  5. Amerglass

    Amerglass Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 12, 2018
    Perfect!!!! Out of allindications I might just be close to increased sugar in my blood and in danger for diabetes.

    But, for 100% sure those symtopms of mine only appear with vaping. So, they should add vaping as one of possible causes.

    The most interesting thing is that the sympthomes described are 100% of what I am being through.

    My docor's therapy for sure will sound: 'quit vaping'..... so that doesn't really help.

    Many many thanks, at least this is the most complete description of signs which proves I am not making it up, if nothing else.

    Great support
     
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  6. Amerglass

    Amerglass Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 12, 2018
    Well Tailland I am thankful for any possible idea that may help. And yours is the most developped and engineered so to say.
    You're optimistic with your idea but have you ever tried it?
    I am sceptic cause VG doesn't seem to be friedly to my mouth so why would it be in combo with water.... Besides I ll be increasing water content in steps of 5% starting from 15% upwards. So, I ll still be vaping mostly VG the first few days. Don't think that would bring result.

    But ready to test anything I'll follow the advice.

    Now, could you please think of what coil to use? And what wattage ?

    Anyways, 3 weeks to go until the dripper arrives from China.
     
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  7. Amerglass

    Amerglass Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 12, 2018
    So Anna,
    thanks for this Snus suggestion. Did order 3 cans from Sweden, hopefully it does deliver as I read it is prohibited in EU?
    Kindly ask for more info: how to use, how long do you keep it under one's lips, how to avoid any damage.... Can I vape along with using snus ? What quality/type would you recommend ?

    Read some articles about it. I was not aware how popular and useful it is in Sweden with lowest cancer rate etc...

    Will give it a shot. Thanks a lot
     
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  8. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    Glad you did some preliminary research. Here is your thread for everything snus. You don't have to start from the beginning either, just ask your questions and you will get tons of knowledgeable answers: What's under your lip/in your nose right now? - Part 2

    Me, I use different strengths at different times and they're all different and etc. If you can get some into the EU I'm sure someone will know what's a good site.

    How much, what portion strength you use, and how often depends on a host of factors, it's kind of like figuring out your nic level. I actually use a lot less now that I used to I was kind of giving myself nic overload.

    Good luck with it, some of the brands are really delicious and I believe the portion sizes range from like 8 mg to 22 mg, something like that. Etc.

    Anna
     
  9. tailland

    tailland Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 11, 2018
    Germany
    Most I've ever tried was about 20%. Funniest property was that the vapor cools down much quicker. If you blow the vapor out, upwards from your lips, you'll find a soft rain of tiny water droplets coming down onto your lips again just a moment later. That wetness is quite pleasant, actually. And the more the VG is already saturated with water, the less water it will pull from its surrounding.

    And as I said: Replace what you think caused you problems with the water, VG or PG. I suppose you've never tried a commercially produced VG35/PG55/H2O10 mix before?

    Simplest single wire coil will do, starting at the low end of what that coil would normally be good for.
     
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  10. Amerglass

    Amerglass Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 12, 2018
    Thanks Anna, as said ordered 3 boxes from Sweden already. Exactly, 8mg - 22 mg.
    However I take snus more as a must do in order to quit the smokes, but no fun. That's why I look forward more to the idea of vaping 20% or more distilled water (as per Tailland) which would hopefully enable usage of over 6 ml/day. 4 ml remains my daily max without burnt mouth and loss of taste. Anything above starts problems.
    Merry Christmas
     
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  11. Amerglass

    Amerglass Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 12, 2018
    No, not yet. Do you think if I made it myself at home just mixeng PG VG and distilled water - wouldn't it be the same?

    Listen, I am curious about 20% water or more. Can I try it in any of my existing tools, not to wait for that dripper to arrive? What tank could I use to test it - out of mine Nautilus 2, Siren 2 mtl RTA, Kensei RTA or mybe the mesh coiled Freemax Pro tank? The problem with the last 2 is I will need to run them on at least 50 Watts. Oh yes, forgot about my new Kaifun clone and Kylin V2 RTA. Which one would do if any of those ?

    Many thanks
     
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  12. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    I find vaping infinitely more fun than snus, but I am grateful for it because it is far cheaper and more effective than nicotine lozenges, and also you do get that WTA hit that you kind of don't (as much) with vaping, and the ability to go up to 12 hours without vaping (my hands and mouth are usually busy though) without craving or needing to vape are pretty helpful things.

    I'm not suggesting you use snus alone, but it may help you become cig free as you move up to like, vaping as much as you can in the way that you can.

    Honestly, I really hope the solution above WORKS for you. Etc.

    Anna
     
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  13. Amerglass

    Amerglass Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 12, 2018
    So, to report shortly as promised: the snus has not been helpful, it is just not for me. Even the lowest nic content burns my under lip area almost instantly. Tried 2 x and spitted out after 30 secs.
    The H2O thing, got my Dead rabbit RDA for that purpose. Needed to learn the hard way RDA-s are only made for thick juices, not 70VG 15PG 15H2O. Spitting back like hell I almost got burnt.... Besides an RDA is not for me, can't take it with me around as spilleage makes a mess...

    But, I did have results impoving my condition by:
    1) drinking much more water, I'd say a gallon per day.... which drives me to the toillet every hour or so; still it does help a great deal
    2) only the salted nic is for my use, the straight one causes itching
    3) using higher or max VG

    That's my experience, I did come to a level being able to vape through 10 ml of e-juice per day. However it causes the flavours of e-juice to be less and less noticeable thru the day. In the morning my vape is perfect. In the evening I can hardly sense how it tastes.
    So, there is some improvement I am glad to see. However can't stop the dual use. The smokes are still the 1st choice in the morning around the coffee. Because my mouth is dry like the pepper and a smoke or two seems to help. After it I can go vaping.

    Still am decided to put the stinkies aside but need to collect the strength and will...
     
  14. Zazie

    Zazie Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Nov 2, 2018
    Maine, USA
    This is my experience as well. I have five mods going, each topped with a tank containing a different flavor, and sometime I might try vaping them one at a time, instead of rotating among all of them throughout the day, to see if that makes a difference. But so far I haven't cared enough to conduct this experiment. When I smoked, some cigarettes tasted better than others (used to love a cigarette right after eating an orange, for example), and, by the end of the day, they pretty much all tasted awful. Now, no matter what or when I'm vaping, the taste is only ever that bad if I've burnt a coil, and that's good enough for me.
     
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  15. susieqz

    susieqz Super Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 11, 2018
    high plains
    you don't use much nic.
    i wonder if increasing it would stop the cig cravings?
    i use 24mg for mtl n 12mg for dl.
    that eliminates my need for tobacco.
    my mtl vapes won't work with too much vg.
    if you wanna do only vg, you will have to cut with water.
    that won't help with taste tho.
    i find i get more taste from high pg mixtures.
    not that i get much taste anyway.
    i just enjoy the process of vaping.
     
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  16. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    . Sounds like it was wicked wrong and juiced waaay too heavily. Possibly also too exotic a coil. Added water can spit a bit in high doses like you are using. Water boils at a higher temperature than other bases. The only time I see water above say 2H2O is when someone is trying to make stealth juice, and then the rest is all PG. spitting can also happen when a coil is too hot.
    Spitting is explosive vaporization. There was something really really hot in that atty that hit a bit of juice and dumped all its energy into it.
    A high wattage or an exotic coil could also do this. I’ve learned a bit about exotic coils recently and exactly why they vape warm. Exotic coils aren’t efficient juice boilers they’re inefficient juice boilers. They hear more air than they do juice. This is good if you want a warm vape though.
    that’s a lot of water. Good for you though likely. Healthy kidneys.
    [/QUOTE]
    2) only the salted nic is for my use, the straight one causes itching
    [/QUOTE] does the straight one have more PG in it?
    Yours is an unusually tough situation it seems. We’ll do what we can to help you through it though. Dry mouth in the morning huh? Do you sleep with your mouth open? Snore? Use a CPAP?
     
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  17. Amerglass

    Amerglass Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 12, 2018
    2) only the salted nic is for my use, the straight one causes itching
    [/QUOTE] does the straight one have more PG in it?
    Yours is an unusually tough situation it seems. We’ll do what we can to help you through it though. Dry mouth in the morning huh? Do you sleep with your mouth open? Snore? Use a CPAP?[/QUOTE]
    Thanks buddy,

    to answer from the end:
    1. I don't have problems in the morning with dry mouth in case I don't vape; smoking a pack of stinkies per day never caused anything like that. It is definitely the vape. Hydrating myself during the day with lots of water did help. But, the morning 'Sahara' in my mouth is a regular thing I can't cure.
    2. no such extra coil used in my Dead rabbit, I put the SS316 24ga several wraps to come to 0.6 Ohms. Should I try any of those prebuilt Claptons?
    3. As for nic I think I already made my Phd from it. No, even 100VG nic itches my throat. I keep like 50 x 10ml bottles of various nicotine suppliers (Inawera, Riccardo from Germany) that were just left there once I found the nic salts. Say ZAP! nic salt sells out immediately here in Europe for 2€/10 ml, the usual retail would be 2.90€. Similar in UK. While any regular nicotine can be purchased almost 50% cheaper. Why? I don't think that is just pods. There are people sensitive to nicotine. I was not at the beginning of my vaping neither. 6 months no problems. Then it started. I was reading about that, it is not so rare. Obviously my body is saying: don't use the nicotine. But, I can smoke 3 packs a day and would be perfectly ok !?

    Thanks for your explanations about the H2O content, I understood that upto 5% should not even be noticed. And, a member on this forum suggested to go as far as 20-30%. So, 15% seemed nothing extra to try. Until my tongue got burnt with hot water from the Dead rabbit...

    Steel struggling but at least I can vape more now. That would not happen without your help, guys. Thanks.
     
  18. Amerglass

    Amerglass Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 12, 2018
    Thanks Susieqz,
    20ml/mg sorrowfuly is the stupid max limit one can buy in Europe. So even vaping just the nicotine base a max ine can do in Europe is 20mg/ml.
    Well, 12mg/ml is real high for DTL. Is that pure nicotibe or nic salt? Let alone 24mg/ml !! How much of it do you vape daily??
    I do 10 ml of e-juice per day which means I intake some 40-50 mg of nicotine/day. That should equal to approx. 2 packs of cigarettes. While as smoker my top daily rate was 20 cigs. So, my intake of the nic should be ok, maybe even too high.
    You should check your high levels!!

    Well, to some point I agree, if I was to use 20mg/ml I should be ok with 2-4 ml of e-juice per day. But, I enjoy vaping, I love flavors and vaping substitutes for my 'hobby' if smoking around a cup of coffee. So, 2 ml with my coffee and I have 4-5 cups a day....

    Pod systems never will bring you that joy as mtl/dtl tanks do.

    As for the PG and flavour - yes correct, PG is the flavour maker while VG is clouding. But, as explained my PG sensitivity brought me to using max. VG which prevents me from loss of taste/vaper's tongue. Sure, for the cost of less flavor in my vape.

    One has to take compromises in my situation.
     
  19. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    Good idea about the end thing. The site seems to have issues when a multi-quote conversation goes on too long.

    Interesting about the protonated vs unprotonated nic. I personally have no problems with unprotonated nic, but protonated nic my lungs don’t seem to like. Takes all kinds I guess. Yours is the first time I’ve ever heard of a sensitivity specifically to unprotonated nic at all. This is why I went looking for other possibilities.

    The protonated nic selling out faster is interesting. Depending on the particular protonating acid, of which there are many, protonated nic can have a much more sharply spiked nicotine delivery than even cigarettes. Which traditionally translated directly into how addictive it is. Unprotonated nic is much better studied than the various protonated versions. Do you know if the EU has only one type of legal protonating acid? Also, are the nic concentrations higher in the protonated vs non protonated liquids? If they are it just means people may be buying nic by weight.

    UPDATE:
    Gah. I got that backwards. I think. NaCl would be protonated chlorine not protonated sodium. Chlorine is the base and sodium is the proton donor.
    I’m not a chemist. I went to art school. It’s about as far from chemistry or engineering as you can get and still have a bachelors degree :/ ecigs seem to be mostly about both. Hence I fumble a lot.
     
  20. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    i tried vaping 100mg/ml VG nic base mixed down to 20mg/ml with only water once. The vape was really really hot. Uncomfortably so. I also did it with 140 proof grain alcohol which was worse. This was a bit weird because alcohol has a lower boiling point than water.
     
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