Dramatic loss in taste and smell of EVERYTHING since vaping

[bombastinator]

Thanks Susieqz,
20ml/mg sorrowfuly is the stupid max limit one can buy in Europe. So even vaping just the nicotine base a max ine can do in Europe is 20mg/ml.
Well, 12mg/ml is real high for DTL. Is that pure nicotibe or nic salt? Let alone 24mg/ml !! How much of it do you vape daily??
I do 10 ml of e-juice per day which means I intake some 40-50 mg of nicotine/day. That should equal to approx. 2 packs of cigarettes. While as smoker my top daily rate was 20 cigs. So, my intake of the nic should be ok, maybe even too high.
You should check your high levels!!

Well, to some point I agree, if I was to use 20mg/ml I should be ok with 2-4 ml of e-juice per day. But, I enjoy vaping, I love flavors and vaping substitutes for my 'hobby' if smoking around a cup of coffee. So, 2 ml with my coffee and I have 4-5 cups a day....

Pod systems never will bring you that joy as mtl/dtl tanks do.

As for the PG and flavour - yes correct, PG is the flavour maker while VG is clouding. But, as explained my PG sensitivity brought me to using max. VG which prevents me from loss of taste/vaper's tongue. Sure, for the cost of less flavor in my vape.

One has to take compromises in my situation.

I think I read that nic in e-cigarettes doesn’t absorb into the blood as well as with cigarettes, so the actual dose is lower even though the total amount is higher. Part of the problem is there just isn’t much research on the various protonated nic compounds. Protonating the nic could make that blood level higher or lower than unprotonated nic or cigarettes depending on which compound it is

 

[bombastinator]

View attachment 787809
Anyone who has ever done that may probably remember the following:
- Water vaporizes at much lower temps than PGVG. That gives you the chance for a cool vape, plus it's the reason why I'd advise for lower wattage use than normal.
- You can dissolve NaCl (table salt) in water to get antibacterial/fungal properties you'd otherwise have with PG. HOWEVER, this could make the distilled water conductive. Careful experimentation is due.

I think there is a real chance to make it work. Will take some thoughtful testing with temps, pre-heat, power cuve, etc.. but hey, better than running around with a sore mouth, right? And if you make it work, you can pride yourself in having a completely unique setup and call other vapers "amateurs" when they ask you about your VGPG juice ratio

Well, what can I do? I LOVE chucking big clouds, so the ml-use per day comes with the territory. Lowering nics then is only logical. The consequence of all potential problems being magnified with such a large intake gives you the chance to troubleshoot your setup to a very high degree. I'm okay with that.

seems you’re right about higher boiling point. I always though the boiling point of VG was lower than water. It seems it’s not though. Boiling point of VG is 290c

 

[Amerglass]

Nic salts explained by a famous e-juice producer

 

[bombastinator]

Nic salts explained by a famous e-juice producer

Not sure if that was a joke or not. I’m going to give it a funny in case it is but explain below in case it is not.

NO!
That stuff has nothing at all to do with nic salts at all. The guy even says so. He’s adding NaCl to NETs. He’s also full of it. “Artisan sea salts from around the world” my left buttock. NaCl has ZERO flavor change based on where it is mined. The difference is purely cosmetic. There is more difference between the shape of the salt crystal itself (kosher vs “regular” salt) than between “types” of salt. Some people can taste the difference between iodized salt and mined salt but that’s generally the addition of the iodine. Most can’t even do that. His salt is in solution so even crystalline structure is not there.

This is why I like the terms protonated and unprotonated nic to “salts”. Using that methodology NaCl is protonated sodium. Protonated with chlorine specifically. There are other protonated sodium types. Many do not taste salty at all, some are flat out poisonous and a few like MSG have other odd properties.

 

[Amerglass]

... and I returned "Informative" - as that's what it is.

Still, interesting that the "salted nicotine" is increasing in consumption. At higer prices !
Would you explain that ? If it was that unuseful why would anyone reach out for it ?

No, it was not meant as a joke but an interesting information of what is going on. I mean, vaping is on the evolving stage, who knows what will we vape in 10 years ?

Thus, any attempt to improve things should be accepted with caution but also with appreciation.

As for flavor: do you prefer salted food or none at all ? How does your food taste better, with some salt or without it ?

It is not a direct analogy but it does explain it a bit.

However, the most important thing is there are many of us that just can't stand the regular (unprotonated) nic. So, the salted one came as a very useful and helpful alternative.

I need to respond the other subject - you were asking about the nic regulations which in Europe are different: there's much regulation by law going on in Portugal, Slovenia, elsewhere possibly. The general rule is nicotine for vaping can be sold in a max 10 ml bottles and the max. allowed is 20mg/ml.

As a result 1 liter (100 x 10 ml) is a cost of approx. 100-150 EUR while the salted (protonated) nic is 200-300 EUR. In USA you can purchase even 100% nicotine, dilluting it by VG/PG yourself .... for 50-70% cheaper.

It should be interesting to see this:
Milwaukee filmmaker looks into health benefits of nicotine

and his previous one: A Billion Lives (2016)

Well, you being from Minnesota sure have heard of it...

 

[bombastinator]

... and I returned "Informative" - as that's what it is.

Still, interesting that the "salted nicotine" is increasing in consumption. At higer prices !
Would you explain that ? If it was that unuseful why would anyone reach out for it ?

so far as I can tell because there are a percentage of people who cannot tolerate unprotonated nicotine, it has become something of a fad due to some carefully and IMHO cynically orchestrated news events in the United States, and the information available on it had been jumbled and glossed over by various groups either accidentally or on purpose.

No, it was not meant as a joke but an interesting information of what is going on. I mean, vaping is on the evolving stage, who knows what will we vape in 10 years ?

agreed

Thus, any attempt to improve things should be accepted with caution but also with appreciation.

As for flavor: do you prefer salted food or none at all ? How does your food taste better, with some salt or without it ?

It is not a direct analogy but it does explain it a bit.

that assumes a perceptible difference in flavor behavior between protonated and non protonated nics. To my knowledge there is none with the exception that protonated juices do not steep.

However, the most important thing is there are many of us that just can't stand the regular (unprotonated) nic. So, the salted one came as a very useful and helpful alternative.

I need to respond the other subject - you were asking about the nic regulations which in Europe are different: there's much regulation by law going on in Portugal, Slovenia, elsewhere possibly. The general rule is nicotine for vaping can be sold in a max 10 ml bottles and the max. allowed is 20mg/ml.

As a result 1 liter (100 x 10 ml) is a cost of approx. 100-150 EUR while the salted (protonated) nic is 200-300 EUR. In USA you can purchase even 100% nicotine, dilluting it by VG/PG yourself .... for 50-70% cheaper.

It should be interesting to see this:
Milwaukee filmmaker looks into health benefits of nicotine

and his previous one: A Billion Lives (2016)

Well, you being from Minnesota sure have heard of it...

Heh. I kickstartered for that film just recently. To my knowledge it hasn’t even been made yet let alone released.
There is a thread on it around here somewhere.

 

[Zazie]

NaCl has ZERO flavor change based on where it is mined. The difference is purely cosmetic.

This is true for 100% NaCl. But salt--especially of the "artisanal" stripe--can contain impurities that do affect the way it tastes.

 

[bombastinator]

This is true for 100% NaCl. But salt--especially of the "artisanal" stripe--can contain impurities that do affect the way it tastes.

I’ve read claims that this is untrue and entirely marketing based. I suppose I should cite a source though, the info was old and came out in response to the beginning of the popularity of artisanal salt.
Here’s one, but doesn’t include artisinal salt specifically.
Salt is Salt - The Rest is Hype
here’s another, but it doesn’t directly contradict the statement
Sea salt scam?
Here’s one about hymalain salt but talks about medical benefits only
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/pink-himalayan-sea-salt-an-update/
This one talks about Hawaiian salt and says that there can be a taste difference, but it’s largely about adding red clay. Which apparently can be any red clay
Hawaiian Sea Salt: The Flavor the Pacific - SPICEography

 

[Zazie]

I’ve read claims that this is untrue and entirely marketing based. I suppose I should cite a source though, the info was old and came out in response to the beginning of the popularity of artisanal salt.
Here’s one, but doesn’t include artisinal salt specifically.
Salt is Salt - The Rest is Hype
here’s another, but it doesn’t directly contradict the statement
Sea salt scam?
Here’s one about hymalain salt but talks about medical benefits only
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/pink-himalayan-sea-salt-an-update/
This one talks about Hawaiian salt and says that there can be a taste difference, but it’s largely about adding red clay. Which apparently can be any red clay
Hawaiian Sea Salt: The Flavor the Pacific - SPICEography

Oh, yeah, there's tons of bunkum and chicanery in the salt biz, but there really are taste differences among some salts. I mean, this only makes sense: if there's stuff other than salt in the mix, it's going to have an influence.

 

[zomin]

Yes, 60 watts on a mesh coil 0.12 Ohm resistance. That's normal use of it. Best subohm tank for my taste. Now, I understand your question. What's he doing on a subohm at 60watts explaining he even has problems with mtl is above 4 ml?
Well, I like DTL style as well, surely even more with this Freemax mesh. It' s because of the flavour again. This tank is perfect for some menthol-fruit mix althoug I just run it with Pacha mama original juice. I enjoy it very much. But, the catch is you must not go lower than 60-70 VG or the thinner PG might end as spit back in your mouth. As VG dries my mouth immensly I can only vape few puffs daily. Some days even don't touch it.
Use 2 mg nic in it. Huge intake of vapour and very smooth.
I did only once empty the whole tank 4ml in a day. It does have even worse impact on my senses. So, I use it very occasionally. But I found it like opens, cleans my nose instantly. Some people use high menthol for running nose.

 

[bombastinator]

Yes, 60 watts on a mesh coil 0.12 Ohm resistance. That's normal use of it. Best subohm tank for my taste. Now, I understand your question. What's he doing on a subohm at 60watts explaining he even has problems with mtl is above 4 ml?
Well, I like DTL style as well, surely even more with this Freemax mesh. It' s because of the flavour again. This tank is perfect for some menthol-fruit mix althoug I just run it with Pacha mama original juice. I enjoy it very much. But, the catch is you must not go lower than 60-70 VG or the thinner PG might end as spit back in your mouth. As VG dries my mouth immensly I can only vape few puffs daily. Some days even don't touch it.
Use 2 mg nic in it. Huge intake of vapour and very smooth.
I did only once empty the whole tank 4ml in a day. It does have even worse impact on my senses. So, I use it very occasionally. But I found it like opens, cleans my nose instantly. Some people use high menthol for running nose.

Huh what? That made no sense to me.

 

[Amerglass]

Hi Zomin,

I suppose this quote: "What's he doing on a subohm at 60watts explaining he even has problems with mtl is above 4 ml?"

refers to me - to my explanation of my way of vaping.

Yes, interestingly, I vape more and more DTL (Freemax, exactly: 0.12 Ohms, 60W, Nic 3mg, interestingly - Pacha mama mint & kiwi exactly my favourite for this tank ran on double mesch coil) and do not feel much problems anymore, provided that went for MAX VG !!

As long as vaping 50/50 or higher PG - even those small puffs ona a MTL device - it caused me problems.
Also, the classic nicotine higher than 4-5mg had bad impact. With nic salts I can now go upto 20mg in my pod (Renowa Zero), but you know: you can't empty a tank in a day ... small and slow intake.

Today I can do 10mg of E-liquids per day with various devices. Use all of them along the day.

The 3 steps I learned and changed to avoid my vaping problems:
1. keep away from E-liquids with PG higher than 30%
2. start to use nic salts
3. drink -drink - drink ... being maybe the most important

I do still taste better my juices in the morning than in the evening, but prety much the same used to be with the stinkies: the 1st in the morning was always a winner, after 10 smokes couldn't tell the difference...

Finally, as much as I loved MTL I still use the MTL device (Aspire Nautilus 2), but on a sub ohm coil (0.7 Ohm) which allows me to vape in restricted DTL way. That's best and that's 80% of my vaping. Yes, the old Nautilus 2 is my 1st tank and still on the top today. Best for flavour, performance, ease of use...