E-Cigarette Forum Discussion Thread

[MustangSallie]

Great posts DC2, I was a bit worried about the first one until I read the last line. If your posts stand and you don't get flamed, I might be able to keep within those boundaries. But I'm still having a problem coming up with a satisfactory answer for the question "do I need to give up nicotine entirely?"

 

[LibertariaNate]

Great posts DC2, I was a bit worried about the first one until I read the last line. If your posts stand and you don't get flamed, I might be able to keep within those boundaries. But I'm still having a problem coming up with a satisfactory answer for the question "do I need to give up nicotine entirely?"

I think the decision on whether or not to abstain from nicotine is a deeply personal one. I would leave it up to the individual. Something like: "Only you can make the decision of if/when/how you give up nicotine."

You're not giving your personal opinion on it, you're letting them decide which is ultimately what they have to do anyway.

 

[DC2]

Great posts DC2, I was a bit worried about the first one until I read the last line. If your posts stand and you don't get flamed, I might be able to keep within those boundaries. But I'm still having a problem coming up with a satisfactory answer for the question "do I need to give up nicotine entirely?"

The approach I am going to take is to indicate that the policy of this forum is to work towards zero nicotine.
And note that electronic cigarettes offer you the ability to do that over a timeframe that you are comfortable with.

EDIT: And by "this" forum I mean, of course, "that" forum
EDIT:

 

[Randyrtx]

Great posts DC2, I was a bit worried about the first one until I read the last line. If your posts stand and you don't get flamed, I might be able to keep within those boundaries. But I'm still having a problem coming up with a satisfactory answer for the question "do I need to give up nicotine entirely?"

Well, technically, Fred didn't say you had to have a definite timeline for giving it up.

 

[MustangSallie]

Well, technically, Fred didn't say you had to have a definite timeline for giving it up.

So I could say something along the lines of "absolutely, by the time you're dead you need to have given it up!"

 

[Randyrtx]

Another very good post I have to quote here:

I'd have to paraphrase how another poster had responded to the heroine statement. Long and short, recovering heroine addicts were asked if they could give up their cigs, basicically they said no way, and to them smoking cigs was way better in just about every way to having heroine get a grip on you (there are REAL and DEVESTATING withdrawl effects when leaving heroine). No real scientific study was made, people have looked at this scenario and decided, on the face of it, cigarettes must be extremely addictive with their nicotine if even hard-drug addicts can't quit. Totally missed the point of the inverviews.

If I was ever in that boat (and thank goodness I've never placed myself in that situation), I would continue smoking if it helped keep me off that crazy stuff.

I can speak of this, since I've seen it first hand myself:

I have a father in law that is currently undergoing methadone withdrawl symptoms after becoming addicted to morphine while in the hospital and during recovery for back surgery. The docs slowly removed the morph from his system with smaller doses, then gone completely for 2 weeks (that was really REALLY hard on him, made him physically sick, and he wasn't that good to begin with). The docs, because of the symptoms, put him on methadone (essentially synthetic morph) which is used by heroine addicts to help with their withdrawl. Now the docs are slowing the intake, weaning him off, and the withdrawl is almost as bad, and now there is no cushion medication wise other than stuff to keep his food down. It's a horrible, horrible undertaking.

After seeing this, knowing what true addiction is, how physical addiction can start destroying you (for real, cells can start dying after they become accustomed to getting heroine) I cannot ever consider putting nicotine in the same universe, much less in the MORE addictive catetory.

Nice response, Renstyle.

 

[Randyrtx]

So I could say something along the lines of "absolutely, by the time you're dead you need to have given it up!"

I certainly don't think you'd have to worry about giving it up after!

 

[MustangSallie]

Another very good post I have to quote here:



Nice response, Renstyle.

Yes. Excellent response (and I'm sorry about your FIL - that's awful!).

Did someone really compare nicotine to ...... addiction? Or am I misreading that?

 

[Randyrtx]

I wish Mizzou would join us here... she's asking great questions!

 

[renstyle]

OT: just got off the phone for a preliminary job interview. It went quite well and I will hopefully be moving to the next stage and a face-to-face interview with the VP of Engineering next week!

I'm extremely stoked because it's in an area that I have wanted to be involved in for a long time, and I seem to be a good fit for the position. (well that, and I really need a job! )

Wish me luck!

I shall keep you in my prayers, cuz every little bit helps! Plus engineering is kewl....

 

[MustangSallie]

I certainly don't think you'd have to worry about giving it up after!

Why? You don't think the nicodemon bothers you once you're dead?

 

[renstyle]

Another very good post I have to quote here:



Nice response, Renstyle.

It is really sad in some ways that I had the "opportunity" to witness this first-hand, but it is a true story and very accurate. With time things will get better. His support comes from us (family), and he loves nothing more than to get a sore lap after having kids sit with him watching TV.

I highly doubt it will change anybody's mind regarding nicotine as "the demon", but I hope it illustrates to others what hard-core addiction can be like.

PS: My FIL has never smoked cigs, did some MJ back in the 70s, then had a family.

 

[renstyle]

Yes. Excellent response (and I'm sorry about your FIL - that's awful!).

Did someone really compare nicotine to ...... addiction? Or am I misreading that?

It was the old "nicotine is more addictive than heroine" thing that has been brought up for at least the last 20years.

He's getting better every day, with family and love. Thanks for your kind words.

 

[ShannonA]

I am really struggling with what I am going to do now.

I am not sure I can, in good conscience, post within those guidelines.
I think it's possible, but what an incredibly fine line it would be to walk.

And I really don't want to have to be asking Fred all the time how he feels I should respond under various circumstances.
So I THINK I have decided to try my best, and let the chips fall where they may.

What are you guys gonna do?

Well his guidelines as told to DC specifically allow us to point people here... from his response to me I'd say we don't have to hide from harm reduction in the e-cig sub forum it just has to be secondary to nicotine cessation. He specifically stated we had our sub forum for that in his reply to my thread.

 

[Randyrtx]

Why? You don't think the nicodemon bothers you once you're dead?

I think the only demons I may have to worry about would kick Nicodemon's little ...!

 

[MagnusEunson]

The nicodemon looks like a piece of pocket lint from your Halloween costume when you were five complete with candy-corn horns. I've got goatee hairs that would kick the smoking .... out of that thing. Actually, my 3yo daughter has a barbie doll who leg humped this nicodemon into submission. Twice. -Magnus

 

[renstyle]

This is starting to have the feeling of "great compromise" floating about it.

The folks who want to quit smoking really do hit up QSMB to be done with smoking. That has been shown with several posters that are not connected to ECF or other PV sites stopping by to ask for information, plus some other members (Simon being the main one) who are sticking around to offer their voice to those that really want to try ecigs to quit smoking.

I wonder if Fred would allow an ecig "sticky" all its own. For its part, it can give the basic concept of how to stop smoking with ecigs, and offer up the decision (nic or no) afterwards. Kinda like a "heads up" for those that stop by and don't realize what they are getting themselves into with all of the "demon" talk. Even if they use QSMB as a springboard to another site (here or elsewhere), they will have some common sense information to help guide them making their path.

 

[Randyrtx]

It is really sad in some ways that I had the "opportunity" to witness this first-hand, but it is a true story and very accurate. With time things will get better. His support comes from us (family), and he loves nothing more than to get a sore lap after having kids sit with him watching TV.

I highly doubt it will change anybody's mind regarding nicotine as "the demon", but I hope it illustrates to others what hard-core addiction can be like.

PS: My FIL has never smoked cigs, did some MJ back in the 70s, then had a family.

I actually think that comparing quitting smoking to a serious addiction is very disrespectful to those who have had to go through it.

 

[MustangSallie]

Not a bad idea Ren. The nic or no would have to be carefully worded IMO but it could be done I think within the guidelines. I would love a sticky that would be locked after the first post.

 

[renstyle]

I am really struggling with what I am going to do now.

I am not sure I can, in good conscience, post within those guidelines.
I think it's possible, but what an incredibly fine line it would be to walk.

And I really don't want to have to be asking Fred all the time how he feels I should respond under various circumstances.
So I THINK I have decided to try my best, and let the chips fall where they may.

What are you guys gonna do?

I am sure I can, and you can too. Personally I take the "personal responsibility" approach. If somebody is psyched enough to be done with it all, there is no downside to the ecig. They can vape zero or drop it entirely like several other former vapers have.

If they keep vaping using nicotine, that is a decision they can make for themselves.

Once we get past the actual smoking, the burning fire kind, it's pretty much whatever you want to make of it. And that is how I believe Fred sees things too.

First and foremost, is providing information so that individuals can make informed decisions for their own lives. It's pretty simple from where I sit:

Here are your choices, newbie:

1. quit completely, cold turkey, and use the support system in place for those that see nicotine as the ultimate force for evil in the universe. Some people need that level of hate for the chemical to stay away from it.

or

2. quit using an alternate method, like NRT, ecigs. Mention that the NRT will give you nicotine, but not the other pleasurable experiences of your former smoking ritual. Here we can mention that ecig does give you options. Start high nic if you want, start low nic if you want, find a flavor you like, give yourself something to keep your mind occupied while the body heals.

Decide for yourself, based on the whyquit links and those you have posted, how you really feel about nicotine.

I'm fine either way, and will support your decision. You've already quit smoking by taking either avenue, so I feel like I've already won.

I plan on sticking around and giving timely information to those that ask for it. As much as I'd like to evangelize my success and method, it's quite difficult to work past the negativity.