E-Cigarette Forum Discussion Thread

[DC2]

I'm guessing that is probably acceptable to him for now.
He probably doesn't want to be too obvious.

He has his best threads above just about everything else.
Even the "You have no threat" thread sort of works in his favor, at least in my opinion.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if some of the useful and positive threads got bumped.

On the other hand, maybe he got banned over there.
It's quite possible he is the same guy that launched that attack on this forum the other day.

 

[Randyrtx]

I still need to go back and read in more detail, in addition to getting my brain somewhat more fully functional, but DC, I would strongly suggest suggest not posting what I think you're thinking of posting.

The "Q" only know one thing: nicotine is the root of all evil. No amount of logic or science is going to change it. It's relatively quiet there now, but if you did make that one final post, it would erupt all over again.

Not that I don't agree with you that it needs to be said (and I'll say more of that later, er, tomorrow). But most of the world isn't ready to hear it yet. It's going to take a good plan to introduce it in the right way. That's not supposed to sound conspiritorical.

 

[MagnusEunson]

After you eliminate the harms and byproducts of combustion, what harm is left to eliminate?

See, that's where some of this came to head. Some people ~feel~ it necessary for themselves. It doesn't matter why as long as they don't ~feel~ it due to blatant wrongs and lies. I don't expect you to catch up on hundreds of pages but that's really the issue here.

If people are still struggling and want to cease nicotine use or want to better understand what they're going through even w/ nicotine and vaping, where do they turn? Now that we're hundreds of pages in and intimately discussing many things it's one thing. There was just some though that when we were all new, how much better these conversations could have gone.

So we're trying to brainstorm where the gaps lie and where we can help collectively. -Magnus

 

[MustangSallie]

On the other hand, maybe he got banned over there.
It's quite possible he is the same guy that launched that attack on this forum the other day.

His last post was yesterday at 8:11 pm on the Main Board, but than again he never seemed to be that interested in the Main Board.

 

[Randyrtx]

*looks at Randy* Do I just nod in agreement and recover later or what man? ;-) -Magnus

I think so... it's been working for me so far

 

[DC2]

The "Q" only know one thing: nicotine is the root of all evil. No amount of logic or science is going to change it. It's relatively quiet there now, but if you did make that one final post, it would erupt all over again.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that katiem would follow close behind and let off another one of those "junkie thinking" monologues.
I guess I never give up hope of minds eventually opening up, even if only a little.

 

[LibertariaNate]

After you eliminate the harms and byproducts of combustion, what harm is left to eliminate? If you don't light it on fire and smoke it, how is using tobacco products including nicotine any worse than chocolate, coffee, or soda products including caffeine? Yes, of course there are still some attendant risks with continuing to use nicotine, but many of the exact same risks are identical or greater in caffeine.

I have my own reasons for eliminating tobacco products. I'll leave it at that.

...

 

[DC2]

Where in any of my posts on this forum have I vilified tobacco? I never said or suggested that everyone should quit tobacco. I couldn't care less what you choose to consume. That's your choice. I've made mine.

I'm thinking he was just using your post as a springboard, and much of that was not necessarily directed at you.

 

[MagnusEunson]

Where in any of my posts on this forum have I vilified tobacco? I never said or suggested that everyone should quit tobacco. I couldn't care less what you choose to consume. That's your choice. I've made mine.

I don't think he meant that as 'you', I think he is trying to define the general position and thought processes.

And I think therein lies the problem that it would take pages on pages of history to catch-up on. Distilling this thread would be a major task.

Those who have taken to vaping and/or snus don't feel equally welcome here if their eventual goal is to completely take tobacco out of their lives. And any byproducts of it. If that's their goal, they shouldn't feel unwelcome for it. And if they're looking for help understanding their emotions or other physiological responses, we should be able to consolidate and provide said help. -Magnus

 

[LibertariaNate]

I'm thinking he was just using your post as a springboard, and much of that was not necessarily directed at you.

I don't think he meant that as 'you', I think he is trying to define the general position and thought processes.

Fair enough...

Emotions starting to get the better of me right now. I need to go.

 

[MagnusEunson]

Those who have taken to vaping and/or snus don't feel equally welcome here if their eventual goal is to completely take tobacco out of their lives. And any byproducts of it. If that's their goal, they shouldn't feel unwelcome for it. And if they're looking for help understanding their emotions or other physiological responses, we should be able to consolidate and provide said help. -Magnus

Isn't this just the same level of respect of goals people were asking of the Q? -Magnus

 

[ShannonA]

I agree! Most folk on here do seem smarter, on average, than on any other forum I have frequented.

I have no idea why though, other than a desire not to smoke tobacco we seem to have nothing much else in common. And that can't be it, the other board shares that goal and yet they, again on average, are some of the most illiterate people I've ever stumbled across. (Not being deliberately nasty, they just are.)

Good morning to everybody.

It's because most of us still use nicotine... lmao (I'm kidding of course I just couldn't resist)

I'm sure he was relieved. I very politely told him why and what I thought of it. VERY politely.

I don't think I could've done politely. I sent Simon a thank you/goobye and left it at that.

Good call. I haven't quite kicked the habit yet. I imagine one day soon I will. What I find fascinating is that Electricman hasn't posted any additional anti threads since you left. So it appears he was fighting us, and not the electronic cigarette. Shocking, I know.

I still think that's an alias profile of another member... the lack of intelligence in the posts suggest brad but it may be someone who is just good at not sounding like themselves
.

I think it's great that you're still posting there.
But honestly, I think it is wise to be a bit worried.

Having said that, I have never seen you say ANYTHING that could offend anyone.
But being left behind could still make you a target.

I would ask Rolygate if you were mentioned in any of the complaints.

And I would be heartened by the fact that cigarbabe only got suspended and not banned.
In spite of being told we would get no warning, I would consider that a warning.

There is the possibility that she only got that because she hadn't been on here since the warning was issued though.

I'm guessing that is probably acceptable to him for now.
He probably doesn't want to be too obvious.

He has his best threads above just about everything else.
Even the "You have no threat" thread sort of works in his favor, at least in my opinion.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if some of the useful and positive threads got bumped.

On the other hand, maybe he got banned over there.
It's quite possible he is the same guy that launched that attack on this forum the other day.

Perhaps but I don't think so. He didn't make the site that poster was connected to unless he had someone else word it for him. Grammar is not even close to being his strong suit.

I don't think he meant that as 'you', I think he is trying to define the general position and thought processes.

And I think therein lies the problem that it would take pages on pages of history to catch-up on. Distilling this thread would be a major task.

Those who have taken to vaping and/or snus don't feel equally welcome here if their eventual goal is to completely take tobacco out of their lives. And any byproducts of it. If that's their goal, they shouldn't feel unwelcome for it. And if they're looking for help understanding their emotions or other physiological responses, we should be able to consolidate and provide said help. -Magnus

I didn't realize people planning to quit entirely didn't feel wlecome here... I plan to quit nicotine I just leave the vaping zero nicotine option open for decision at a later date. I don't know how I'll feel when I get to zero nicotine.

In case anyone's interested I got down to 10mg and then my pv became a pacifier again so I stopped dropping for now. I'm waiting to see if I get past that stage like I initally did.

 

[DC2]

Those who have taken to vaping and/or snus don't feel equally welcome here if their eventual goal is to completely take tobacco out of their lives. And any byproducts of it. If that's their goal, they shouldn't feel unwelcome for it. And if they're looking for help understanding their emotions or other physiological responses, we should be able to consolidate and provide said help. -Magnus

Honestly, I hadn't noticed that they might not have reason to feel welcome.
But I do agree with you that providing that sort of information would be very helpful.

 

[hollyberry]

Fair enough...

Emotions starting to get the better of me right now. I need to go.

Nate, *hugs*

 

[kristin]

*blinks* Yeah, I think that ends poorly at this point. Between this brief interaction and some other threads I think the type of thought processes people like me have are not welcome in organizations that are fighting against a much larger enemy. That's not exclusive to CASAA. It happens and you just move on. -Magnus

See, that's where you have it wrong. CASAA welcomes contructive criticism. If we are coming off as unreasonably biased, we'd want to know and fix it when possible.

Keep in mind, however, that CASAA is trying to be a resource above and beyond all of the information that is currently being disseminated. There is a plethora of info out there about the known possible side effects of nicotine use (except that most of it is through cigarettes and not smokeless, with the exception of snus and snus studies are dismissed and ignored) but very little about the possible benefits or anyone questioning the necessity of nicotine abstinence to quit smoking and improve the health of smokers. I think you make a valid point that we should probably repeat the possible risks, but what we post would have to be based on the smokefree nicotine studies. (For example, they've recently found smoking/tobacco AND alcohol abuse have a higher risk of oral cancers. No one seems to want to point out that the blame was placed entirely on tobacco until this was discovered, which calls into question the validity of previous studies which did not factor in alcohol.)

If you followed the tobacco harm reduction researchers you would be more aware of how biased and inaccurate so many of the studies on tobacco and nicotine really are. It's very hard for us to post many of the things that are accepted as "fact" by the public when we know how questionable those studies are. Meaning, the last thing we want to do is put widely accepted (yet very questionable) claims about nicotine/smoking/tobacco on our site when we know how questionable those studies actually are. Regardless, there are plenty of comments on the CASAA site that acknowledges that there are some minor risks associated with nicotine use. CASAA tends to use the ones which are vetted by knowledgable, experienced tobacco harm reduction researchers and not those put out by tobacco prohibitionists. There are also comments in our about MAOIs and the "something missing" in e-cigarettes issue. (I know, because I usually have written those, as my husband is a perfect example.)

I know for a fact that CASAA makes every effort to share all research on e-cigarettes, including posting even the bad research (such as Eissenberg's first study) on our site. But it's hard to justify expecting CASAA to post poor, biased research studies from the past, which exist only to defend the abstinence/prohibitionist agenda (which is most of them.) And I don't believe any of us have taken an extremeist stance or denied the drawbacks of e-cigarettes. We have all acknowledged that e-cigarettes do not work for everyone, that a portion of e-cigarette users find "something missing," that some people will have an intolerence for PG or something in the flavorings that may cause allergic reactions or preclude e-cigarettes as an option for them altogether, nicotine does have side effects and that e-cigarettes are not safe, but only reasonably safer than smoking. CASAA has never attempted to hide these facts. BUt, as an example of taking your comments to heart, I will be adding info about MAOIs and the "something is missing" factor in the FAQs section on e-cigarettes. I thought there was something on there about it but there isn't and it's a good thing to let potential users know about so they don't just give up and go back to smoking.

As far as my comment about "worrywarts," that moniker was directed at those who unreasonably attacked me (as I tried to counsel new members on known side effects) and who should know better about the known effects of quitting smoking and the reported side effects of vaping. It was not directed at new members who come to the health section with concerns and questions. And that 99% I gave is a generous guesstimate. I tend to believe that it is more likely 100% at this point. Doctors may not have resources to test for vaping-related effects, but they could certainly rule out or discover non-vaping causes. Unfortunately, most people who post of their "I know it's vaping related" symptoms never bother to see a doctor to even rule out another cause, so we have no way to determine if their issues are actually vaping related. I have yet to see a claim supported by a visit to a doctor that ruled out other conditions. All I've ever asked is that people do this before posting on forums that they "know" that vaping caused their condition, because otherwise we don't know if it was something else - especially when the vast majority of vapers are not reporting the same experience.

 

[ShannonA]

As far as my comment about "worrywarts," that moniker was directed at those who unreasonably attacked me (as I tried to counsel new members on known side effects) and who should know better about the known effects of quitting smoking and the reported side effects of vaping. It was not directed at new members who come to the health section with concerns and questions. And that 99% I gave is a generous guesstimate. I tend to believe that it is more likely 100% at this point. Doctors may not have resources to test for vaping-related effects, but they could certainly rule out or discover non-vaping causes. Unfortunately, most people who post of their "I know it's vaping related" symptoms never bother to see a doctor to even rule out another cause, so we have no way to determine if their issues are actually vaping related. I have yet to see a claim supported by a visit to a doctor that ruled out other conditions. All I've ever asked is that people do this before posting on forums that they "know" that vaping caused their condition, because otherwise we don't know if it was something else - especially when the vast majority of vapers are not reporting the same experience.

Since you mentioned that a fairly new member posted he thought he might have nicotine poisoing recently. A few of us responded as to the likelihood of this and recommended he see a doctor... for once he did and posted back it turned out to be a virus. Orly also went to the doctor and posted back when we advised him.

 

[ShannonA]

Ok did I recently develop Cooties or something? Every time I post everyone disappears my feelings are starting to get hurt.

 

[lolady]

...I didn't realize people planning to quit entirely didn't feel wlecome here...

I didn't either. If anybody does, I hope they will help figure out how to fix that, because choice is the whole point.

That's part of the miracle of e-cigarettes - now there is this whole big lump of choice that didn't exist before.

That's the springboard. And people should feel welcome regardless of where they want to spring to.

Whether that's just upgrading from toabcco cigarettes, or if they want to phase out nicotine, or if they want to eventually puff only 0-nicotine non-tobacco flavors, or only berry ones, use e-cigarettes forever, or only on Feast Days, or if their goal is to stop using them entirely.

In the future, there will be lots of people for whom e-cigarettes will be the vehicle of their first and only smoking cessation attempt.

But for most of us here now, one of the things we have in common is that if our previous unsuccessful attempts to dump cigarettes have taught us anything, it's that each one of us really is a special snowflake, in our biochemical makeup, our needs, the way our bodies and minds react to things and interact with each other.

There is no one size fits all "quit smoking" method. And we don't all necessarily either want or need to "quit" anything, with the notable exception of ingesting all the carcinogens and toxic garbage.

And that's OK. We're good enough, and doggone it, people like us. And that's all equally true of the people who DO want to quit - smoking, nicotine, puffing - they are the World's Leading Experts on what their bodies need, and what they need, or just want, in their lives.

This knowledge should be the thing that we have in common, that unifies us way more and on a much more fundamental level than the use of e-cigarettes. We may not all use those forever, but that understanding and tolerance of individual differences is permanent!

Hmm. Not sure if that made much sense, so here's a tldr version

+ the commission of boatload of hugs upon LibertarianNate

I have my own reasons for eliminating tobacco products...

I support you a gazillion % in eliminating any substance you don't want - and you don't need any reasons!

 

[MustangSallie]

Ok did I recently develop Cooties or something? Every time I post everyone disappears my feelings are starting to get hurt.

It's because you're a vampire.

And with that, I'm going to bed. Night Shannon. Night lolady.

 

[MagnusEunson]

Kristin, thank you for taking the time to respond. I have read and re-read your post. I understand better what to expect from CASAA. -Magnus