E-cigarettes deliver almost no nicotine.

[rothenbj]

The discussion on nicotine absorption always fascinates me. Below is a discussion on cigarette and Swedish snus absorption

"Important research results on Swedish snus:
Less than half the amount of nicotine present in a pinch of snus is extracted during snus use.
Only 10-20 % of the nicotine present in a pinch of snus is absorbed via the mucous membrane and reaches the systemic circulation. This means that only 1-2 mg of nicotine is absorbed into the blood from a one gram pinch containing ca 10 mg of nicotine.
Nicotine is absorbed quite rapidly from Swedish snus.
Studies on Swedish snus users have shown that the plasma steady-state levels of nicotine and its main metabolite, cotinine, are similar in Swedish snus users and cigarette smokers.
Snus users and cigarette smokers, who have similar blood nicotine levels, have reported similar levels of subjective dependence on tobacco.
The total nicotine uptake (dose) measured as the excretion of nicotine and its metabolites per 24 hours is similar in habitual snus users and cigarette smokers, i.e. 25 mg.
In contrast to cigarette smokers, snus users do not compensate their nicotine uptake when switching to a low nicotine product. A decrease of the nicotine content of snus by 50 % results in a decrease of the nicotine uptake by about 50 %.
An experimental cross-over study of blood plasma levels obtained after controlled snus use of four different portion-packed snus products of various weight and format, different nicotine content and different pH values showed that the nicotine intake varies between 0.4 and 1.2 mg per pinch."

Then from another study-

"Nicotine absorption
The nicotine uptake from one pinch of snus is determined both by the amount of nicotine that is released from the pinch during snus use and by the amount of nicotine that passes the buccal mucosa and reaches the systemic circulation. Andersson et al. (1994) examined consumption patterns, nicotine uptake and oral lesions in a group consisting of users of portion-packed snus, loose snus and chewing tobacco, respectively. They found that almost half of the nicotine present in the pinch was extracted during snus use (37 % from portion-packed snus and 49 % from loose snus). By comparison of the total amount of excreted nicotine with the total amount of nicotine in the pinch per time unit, it has been concluded that only 10-20 % of the nicotine originally present in the pinch is absorbed via the buccal mucosa and reaches the systemic circulation (Andersson et al., 1994; Andersson et al., 1995)."

So from the two studies, we have a nicotine absorption rate of somewhere between 10% and 37% of nicotine from a 1gm portion of snus. If you take a sterk portion (12mg, strong), you have a range of 1.2 and 4.4 mg absorption from one portion of snus.

I was a 2 to 3 pack a day smoker before e cigs and then snus. Using the lowest absorption rate of .8 mg for cigarettes and a minimum of 40 cigarettes a day, I was absorbing 32mg per day smoking. The first seven months of this journey was at most a 24mg - 2ml dosage plus six cigarettes which might have come close to my 32mg "habit", if half the nicotine from e liquid was absorbed (24mg +4.8mg). That doesn't seem likely.

Now for the last eight months I've basically used Swedish snus exclusively with a daily consumption of four portions (on a heavy day, six at the most). To make my point, I'll say I average five portions which is very theoretical. Normally, I'll do two sterk portions and two portions in the 8mg range, but for this post, I'll say I use 3 sterk and 3 normal portions and use the absolute highest possible absorption, 37%. The sterk would give me 13.2 mg total absorption and the 8mg portions another 5.92 mgs for a total of approximately 19mgs of nicotine daily.

Now I used the extreme minimum cigarette absorption and the maximum snus absorption and still reduced the daily nicotine intake by about 41%. If I had used a more realistic comparison using 1mg per cigarette and the four portions that I normally consume at a 25% absorption rate, the difference would be 40mg for cigarettes and 10mg for snus consumption, a reduction of 75% nicotine consumption.

One of the studies I read on Swedish snus indicated that there was no compensatory increase in consumption when nicotine amounts were reduced by those studied unlike the supposed compensatory increases between switching between regular and light/ultralight cigarettes.

Now, incidentally, I still use my PV on occasion, but it is becoming less and less often (I think last Friday, I pulled it out for a few puffs), but I've lowered the nic content in that to minimal and really don't feel the need for it at all other than the hand to mouth in certain situations. I just believe the whole thought that nicotine is the primary culprit in smoking cessation is somewhat overstated.

For me, I know the other alkaloids in tobacco had a lot to do with my habit. From the first lipped snus packet (and that was the far inferior Camel SNUS), I never had another puff on a cigarette. Once I had broken down the need for those scheduled cigarettes on cue with the E Cig, I has started breaking down the "hand to mouth" habit. When you no longer HAD to smoke the whole cigarette, rather take a few puffs on my PV, the ritual started breaking down. We've been fed so many myths for so long, I believe we, as smokers, started to believe them. JMHO

 

[AlexTM]

Then from another study-

"Nicotine absorption
The nicotine uptake from one pinch of snus is determined both by the amount of nicotine that is released from the pinch during snus use and by the amount of nicotine that passes the buccal mucosa and reaches the systemic circulation. Andersson et al. (1994) examined consumption patterns, nicotine uptake and oral lesions in a group consisting of users of portion-packed snus, loose snus and chewing tobacco, respectively. They found that almost half of the nicotine present in the pinch was extracted during snus use (37 % from portion-packed snus and 49 % from loose snus). By comparison of the total amount of excreted nicotine with the total amount of nicotine in the pinch per time unit, it has been concluded that only 10-20 % of the nicotine originally present in the pinch is absorbed via the buccal mucosa and reaches the systemic circulation (Andersson et al., 1994; Andersson et al., 1995)."

Is it just me mis-reading this, or does this confirm my hypothesis:
"almost half of the nicotine present in the pinch was extracted during snus use" - meaning, if I check for nic content of the snuns portion before and after use, the result is, that 50% of the nic content of the original snus is gone.
BUT
"it has been concluded that only 10-20 % of the nicotine originally present in the pinch is absorbed via the buccal mucosa and reaches the systemic circulation"

In other words, the amount of nic leaving the actual snus is not equal to the amount of nic metabolised. Which would be, I may add, not exactly surprising. Many things going into our bodies are not "used up" completely, but they are still inside the body for a time.

Which in extreme cases would even make it possible that we really exhale no nicotine, and still there is very little nic actually used in that notoriously bad test.

To AlexTM: It was not my intent to be a jerk or anything to you or others here. And it's clear you were being friendly. When I posted earlier, I honestly believed you were mistakenly asserting that "we don't know anything about the absorption" and I was just trying to say, based on what I had learned so far: "hey, wait a minute - we do know (at least, I think we do)." What I'm saying is, my intent was friendly, but I sincerely apologize if I made it seem like I was personally attacking you. *hugs* Really, I am sorry.

But yes I'll also concede that, as yvilla's post showed, there were some details that I wasn't aware of re: the New Zealand study. But those details have now raised new questions for me.

Firstly, re: your vaping 72mg of nic over the course of a day...some smokers smoke like 5 packs a day (granted, crazy ones, lol - but yeah). Admittedly that intake level is not common, but it does happen with some. So it's not inconceivable to me that your nicotine intake might have nearly doubled since you quit smoking & took up vaping. As former smokers, we doubtless have a tolerance built up to nicotine (just as a person who frequently drinks strong coffe is not affected by a cup nearly as much as someone who rarely drinks it).

And now that we're no longer smoking, no longer taking in thousands of deadly things - well I'm just speculating in this paragraph - but it would seem at least possible that we might somehow be compensating for the large dropoff in stuff that we used to take in, by taking in more nicotine than before. I don't know. You're both right - more comprehensive studies, specifically re: vaping, done by objective parties, will be a good thing.

First, no problem - my response was slightly on the sharp side, too. Mainly because I know perfectly well that any false statements, by whomever, sometimes, are taken up by those opposing vaping and well, you never hear the end of it. Great tactic to avoid any serious discussion, that

Second, I may consume something in the 72mg of nic a day, but I seriously doubt it is actually all used as it could be, see above. (That's why I chanced the order of the quoted posts.)
Also, regarding the "other stuff" - I doubt anybody feels a particular need to compensate for tar and carbon monoxide, but some of us need to compensate for the loss of other alkaloids. Those people either still smoke a few analogs a day, or far, far, far better, take up smokeless tobacco like snus and snuff. That is perfectly sufficient to compensate for that.
What I can say, too, is that I had quite a few overdoses of nic in the past when I still smoked. With vaping, that is very rare, and only happens if I try out new stuff that delivers differently. The LR meGo B gave me one recently.

But here's my new question. yvilla, you said that Dr. Laugesen said that the nicotine in the inhaled vapour* "is over 98% absorbed" - so if that's the case (it sounds like that part is a certain conclusion, like an actual finding, not a surmise)...doesn't it follow that there can't possibly be more than 2% nicotine in the exhaled vapour?

He doesn't know that, and it needs to be tested. But then again, no non-smoker ever became, AFAIK, addicted to nic because of 2nd-hand-smoke. So there is not exactly much of a chance, is there, of them becoming addicted from 2nd-hand-vape, which dissipates far faster.

 

[rothenbj]

Alex, that's how I read it also. The article I read actually looked at four different studies with, as you'd expect, widely varying nicotine absorption rates. The one thing that seems certain is whether you're using E Cigs, cigarettes, snus, any tobacco product you are not getting nearly the stated nicotine quantity absorbed by the body.

What I'd love to try, if they created it, would be the equivalent to de-caffeinated coffee, de-nicotined Swedish snus. I'm not really concerned personally with the consumption of nicotine as some studies appear to indicate that it may have some physiological benefits. However, I've become increasingly convinced that nicotine is not the be all and end all for the use of tobacco and the total reason that smoking is so hard to quit.

When I started this journey, I was using a poor automatic PV with 11mg liquid. I didn't know how to actually use it (as Eisenberg's studies have indicated), but I decreased my cigarette consumption by over 80% instantly. I did find this forum and soon had my 510 manual battery PV which actually generated something that looked like smoke from a cigarette and fror six months the status quo remained. Then I noticed that I was inching up on my six cigarettes a day toward a half pack and was getting tired of constantly charging batteries. That's when I finally looked seriously at snus and purchased by Chuck where battery life took away that charging issue.

I basically had broke down that hand to mouth habit and those few portions of snus gave me that something that was missing for me. Everyone is different and smoke for different reasons. I know what my need was and it gets satisfied by the snus. I probably would have done just as well on an anti-depressant my whole life, but what side effects would that have created?