E-Cigs will never be Legal
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@ChipCurtis : Analog makers will not give away their market so easily.Calculate the amount Any Govt. get from analog sales tax 
I dont want the blood shed too...we all have to fight together..."you are not alone"...
I dont want the blood shed too...we all have to fight together..."you are not alone"...
Why you are saying risky? (I dont know anything about political science and our country is Republic
& Democratic ; so, we can protest against Govt. policy legally Wikipedia:India)
I have gone Mad...@ChipCurtis : Analog makers will not give away their market so easily.Calculate the amount Any Govt. get from analog sales tax
I dont want the blood shed too...we all have to fight together..."you are not alone"...
@idoesmoking, thanks for chiming in. Good point. I really want to do something positive but I just don't know exactly how to go about it, other than to keep myself, family, and friends informed and educated, as well as participating on internet forums. It just looks to me like signing petitions, writing to our Senators and local legislators, is NOT having the effect we want it to. All of these lawmakers are clearly in FEAR of this new device and want to protect their vested interests, as you have pretty much described yourself.
I think that a more effective method (and it has been done to some extent in this forum) is to get our message out to television and radio -- the stuff that the majority of the population listens to and trusts without question. If the only message getting out there on the "official" airwaves is that e-cigs contain anti-freeze, we are going to lose. Politicians and lawmakers know how to dupe the general public for their own financial ends. They are sorcerers, masters of the universe, at this kind of thing.
I don't know too much about what's going on politically in India, but here in U.S. we are re-making the Caste System that you guys apparently got rid of, or are wanting getting rid of. We have nothing left in the U.S. but a handful of wanna-be aristocrats and an overwhelming population of uneducated, feudal subjects who are led around on a leash and told how to live, eat, think, conduct themselves. A large population with no facility for critical thinking.
I pointed out in another thread that I find it quite interesting that the exporting of U.S. manufacturing to third world contrues over the past 20-30 years has resulted, finally, in this: Instead of it having the usual effect of making ordinary Americans' lives miserable, it is FINALLY making the upper class elites sweat a little, and FINALLY doing something beneficial to ordinary people, such as smokers. Third world labor is finally putting a fly into the ointment for these elitist U.S. rulers, for a change. That to me is the true meaning of cosmic justice, or ironic justice. "Whatever Goes Around, Eventually Comes Around".
Anyway, I will keep on fighting, keeping informed, and doing whatever it takes (subterfuge, guerilla tactics, do stuff to keep the lawyers confused and busy) to make sure this life-saving device stays widely available, no matter which way the laws go. I really don't care if I have to live in the "1920s" with "Al Capones" selling these things and all of us huddling in our underground Speak-Easy's. E-juice being made in underground "Moonshine Labs". Whatever happens, the e-cig will be here. I am confident of that.
My Dear Friend, you wrote one of the content rich post.
Some years ago, I had a misconception, that, people in the States are in a better political condition than that of India; but from several other unrelated forums, I got the fact ;its false. May be you were thinking what I thought of your political environment, and sadly, our condition is same as yours
olitical leaders are the Supremo here also.The difference is, health system is very inexpensive here (obviously you can spend a lot of money in certain private centers);the health insurance system has not yet penetrated much-but it will within 10 years And the other thing is, as our country is Democratic and Republic; one Indian resident can legally protest against any Govt. rule in the Court of Law,either individually or in group, though the Lawyer fee may be unbearable to even a rich person.Very few country has any ban on Regular cigarettes, should have it not the duty of the country to stop its use as its carcinogenic,mutagenic, very dangerous for pregnant ladies rather than to impose heavy tax on it to increase their revenue? Can you buy Gamma benzine Hexachloride now (insecticidal, used in the past decade, carcinogenic).No.Because, if they impose 300% tax over it, you will seek for some cheap alternative.
I have learned the fact from different peoples from different countries from different forums: From the beginning of human political history to date, Political persons will dominate the weak, humane, soft persons in any country; the procedure of this may be named Democratic,Republic, Imperialism, Socialism etc etc.
Whenever you will try to protest this system;which hits them too much you are gone.
As you know, some peoples say, these major political powers , influential persons, big multinational companies have a "hidden group".I think you know the name.I dont know whether it really exist or not, but these powers obviously orchestrated some how to do fulfill their Goal.
e-cigarette is a innovation, which is in its budding days, it has some back draws, but obviously, technology and peoples dedication will improve it.
But, they can see the future.Look in this forum, how many members are here?nearly 25,000 .multiply it with the cost of atleast 1 pack analog cig per day. Calculate the amount of Tax from it.
Now come to cost of e-cig.One time buying,even we are brewing the e-lig at home now (thanks to the contributer members), peoples are going to be zero nicotine.
Got my point?
The actual long term US smoking statistics don't really bear this out. Over the past 4 decades in the US(since 1965) the percetage of adult smokers has declined by more then half(from about 43% to about 21%). It took no legislative action or regulatory enforcement to cause this drop, simply a strong, consistent, truthful program of education promulgated by the healthcare industry, in general, and other concerned health lobbies.(which, if you think about it, is an amazing feat)
This is why taxes keep going up; less people smoking means that the people who still are have to make up the balance.
With the ecig is gaining momentum on the world market, it has become not just a new trend but a way of life for cigarette & non-cigarette smokers alike.
Go Smokeless with ecigs
Putting all the Bull**** aside, people have the right to smoke, and the ecig is the alternate but healthier way of doing just that. Agree?
It won't matter. I will vape whether it is illegal or not. Vaping stopped me from smoking and that is a good thing. If they try to make it illegal it'll go underground and we'll still be able to do it.
It won't matter. I will vape whether it is illegal or not. Vaping stopped me from smoking and that is a good thing. If they try to make it illegal it'll go underground and we'll still be able to do it.
This might very well be where we all end up.
But you're right, we'll still be able to do it. I can completely rationalize this by thinking that if gov't is so corrupt that it will justify getting its taxes by any means necessary, including forcing us back to analogs, then we are in our rights to take this activity 'underground' where it will flourish.
There will probably be a 'reactionary' period that we have to get through (analogous to 1920s prohobition or late 20th century marijuana law/disposition) before common sense eventually prevails.
Much like Prohibition in the 1920's and the current war on drugs, the banning of products which have an established market will create a black market. Not only does this make ordinary, law-abiding citizens like you and me criminals, it opens the door for organized crime and black markets. Prohibition opened the door for the mafia in this country, and they have never left. They have only changed which "criminals" they cater to.
The problem with this for us is the type of people that tend to stick their neck out to provide consumers with illicit products. They are not concerned with customer safety or product quality; if they're the only game in town, that's enough for them. Not only will PV's and juice be more expensive (reflecting the risk the seller is taking by selling an illegal product), they will be less safe. While this will not necessarily stop me from vaping (or many others), it is not the most desirable option. However, it may be what we are forced to do.
While it may seem somewhat contradictory to the above, I submit the following, a quote from Martin Luther King, Jr:
One may well ask: "How can you advocate breaking some laws and obeying others?" The answer lies in the fact that there are two types of laws: just and unjust. I would be the first to advocate obeying just laws. One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws. I would agree with St. Augustine that "an unjust law is no law at all."
The problem with this for us is the type of people that tend to stick their neck out to provide consumers with illicit products. They are not concerned with customer safety or product quality; if they're the only game in town, that's enough for them. Not only will PV's and juice be more expensive (reflecting the risk the seller is taking by selling an illegal product), they will be less safe. While this will not necessarily stop me from vaping (or many others), it is not the most desirable option. However, it may be what we are forced to do.
While it may seem somewhat contradictory to the above, I submit the following, a quote from Martin Luther King, Jr:
One may well ask: "How can you advocate breaking some laws and obeying others?" The answer lies in the fact that there are two types of laws: just and unjust. I would be the first to advocate obeying just laws. One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws. I would agree with St. Augustine that "an unjust law is no law at all."
If some altruistic millionaire from Idaho stepped up and began making e-liquids exclusively from potatoes, there might actually be hope. While it may be a more costly to produce e-liquid from potatoes, it is far from impossible.
Were there such a product actually on the market, I do not see how the reality could be denied. Judge Leon seems like a pretty sensible guy to me.
Come to think of it, because most of the nicotine is in the skin, with some ingenuity, Frito-Lay and other potato chip mfg's could actually profit from their by-product...
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I don't think that you and Dr. King are expressing anything contradictory. You are both observing that the individual is sovereign, and obtains his rights from natural law, and then delegates certain authority to government. When government makes a law that contravenes natural law, it need not be followed. IMO, you are Dr. King are both correct.
Quite right. I have no intention of recognizing a law that takes away my right to self medication.
I already disobey to self medicate. Let em make me "more" of a "criminal", it gets old having to worry about getting caught for something so silly. Adding another to the list of taboo.
I can see why government is consurned. Look at the potential for lost revenue. I can only go by my experience here in New Jersey. A pack of premium cigarettes coast a little over $9.00 a pack with the sin tax. I was a two + pack per day smoker. How much of that is cost for production of the cigarettes and how much is Tax ? I suspect Tax is the major cost factor here. Now thanks to the e-cigarette just being available as an alternative to satisfy my addiction and to ecf members for the valuable education on it's proper use and care. I stand to save a major chunk of money that would otherwise go up in smoke. And I'm just one person. Just think, how many smokers are out there in the USA alone ? WE are talking major bucks here.
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