Not sure I would agree with that but either wayI didn't claim it did, but it certainly is much more responsible then using a giant Kangeroo or a cool looking Zombie holding a cigarette to make it appealing.
E-liquid bottle designs are geared toward kids
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Not sure I would agree with that but either wayI didn't claim it did, but it certainly is much more responsible then using a giant Kangeroo or a cool looking Zombie holding a cigarette to make it appealing.
You may want to talk to them a bit more... I only say this because I have a large number of nieces and nephews and was shocked to find out that they had all been using hookah's (with NIC) and were talking about getting in to vaping instead... with vaping they were going to go 0 NIC, something they had trouble doing with hookah intended product. They just wanted to make clouds and do tricks... hookah let them do this and at a low NIC level... but even what they thought was no-NIC... was just low-NIC. Once I talked to them about just using VG, they seemed as shocked about that as I was about them using the hookahs. I was around hookahs when I was their age, but never really got to involved... I guess where they are at, it's all the rage. Not hookah pens, etc... full-size, full-blown hookahs... basically being used as originally intended... as a gathering point/place.
I'm only suggesting that you somehow interject that if he knows people using hookahs... to triple check what they are using, as it may very well contain nicotine, and just not be as clearly marked as e-juice is.
BTW: Congrats, I figure if you have a son willing to talk to you about such things... you are either a 'friend' parent or doing things right... I'm going to pretend you must be doing things right
Oh my gosh Jimmy, I don't even know what a Hookah is lol! My son could probably tell me though!
I'm gonna ask at dinner tonight and that'll give me a clue to just how much he knows. And thank you for the congrats, my son knows he can ask me anything and I'm going to be straight up with him and not hesistate to kick his hiney if he needs it.
I started because of the actual product itself not what it was packaged in and not because my friends were doing it. I was actually the first of my group to start smoking. I was really little when I began to think that the smoke my grandfather was making looked magical/mystical. Seriously, that was all there was to it. I didn't care what it came in I just knew that I wanted "to do that".
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Perhaps, on Monday, I will contact this vendor and ask about this. Seriously, I'd love to hear the reasoning behind this sort of labeling.
Sub4me, you keep bringing up this particular juice line, which I've never seen in any shops I regularly visit. I haven't really seen any others that truly offend me but that one is a bit over the top!
Are there any others that are really that bad??!!
Granted I've only been at this for about 6 months, I don't make my juice choices on what the label looks like!!
Are there any others that are really that bad??!!
Granted I've only been at this for about 6 months, I don't make my juice choices on what the label looks like!!
Your response illustrates the difficulty of writing laws and regulations that are specific enough to describe the prohibited activity in such a way that people can have a reasonable degree of certainty about what they can and can't legally do.
This juice is a house blend from one of the top 5 tobacco shops in the U.S. I just informed one of their stores (in-person) about the uproar I have seen in various threads etc after they opened the conversation about the juice. I am told that it sells 'ok'. This wasn't an official spokesperson, but they didn't see an issue since you have to be 18+ to even enter their stores and they wouldn't sell juice (even 0nic) to anyone under legal age for cigarettes... but I explained the concept of resellers selling on-line and they understood that aspect may change a few things.
Either way, best of luck getting a statement
Well of course they are trying to seem "hip and cool": that's marketing for you!
"You know it when you see it"... I've heard that about porn since I was a kid. Funny thing: not everybody sees the same thing when they look at it (does anyone else remember an AG having a cloth draped over the exposed breast on the statue of Justice?)
"You know it when you see it"... I've heard that about porn since I was a kid. Funny thing: not everybody sees the same thing when they look at it (does anyone else remember an AG having a cloth draped over the exposed breast on the statue of Justice?)
It really is over the top. I know the pics I posted are small but if anyone wants to look it up their not hard to find. This pic
is of the instore display (which I've seen in person) and its huge. The other pics are giant posters they put all around the display. They also sell hats and shirts revolving around the same theme, it's just really in bad taste in my opinion. The line is owned by a large Tobacco and Ecig shop which operates quite a few stores. The strange thing is they also have other e liquid lines which use normal labeling and normal juice names like tobacco, cherry, menthol, however this line of liquid is just crazy with names like My Psycho Ex (frosted coconut cake), Dragons Breath (Sweet and Tangy), Wabbit Juice (Apple Strawberry), The Red One (Pure Tobacco), Mr. Freeze(Pure Menthol), Doink (Strawberry Banana), Secret Stuff (Melon Desert), and Sweet Tooth (Strawberry Desert), I don't have anything against the company itself I just think the advertising, labels, and names cross the line and are probably not aimed towards adults. There are a few others like Space Jam but for the most part the majority of e liquids are much more responsible.I've never picked a e liquid by its label either (maybe subconsciously) but more from reviews I've read. But by seeing the above pics I think we can all see who the target is.
Bombies ditched all their cartoon labels last month in favor of a Gorilla Face (drawn but not kiddie like their old labels). They started moving up a bit n the ranks; so, the attention was needed anymore, I guess. Or, they were worried about their image. Not bad sauce, but not on my reorder list.
This juice is a house blend from one of the top 5 tobacco shops in the U.S. I just informed one of their stores (in-person) about the uproar I have seen in various threads etc after they opened the conversation about the juice. I am told that it sells 'ok'. This wasn't an official spokesperson, but they didn't see an issue since you have to be 18+ to even enter their stores and they wouldn't sell juice (even 0nic) to anyone under legal age for cigarettes... but I explained the concept of resellers selling on-line and they understood that aspect may change a few things.
Either way, best of luck getting a statement
Nice to know they were open to the notion that it might be something to think about!
The crazy cartoon like ads remind me of the cheese in that commercial. (lets see how many people get that!)
Space jam updated their logo this year to present a more responsible, organized image. Guess what i have a big ol Nautilus full of right now?
The crazy ads and labels just say to me: " Vape this! yea! Here, this too! Throw some of this ..... in there, and some of this, we don't care! YOLO !!
The best labeling IMHO is 5 Pawns. I like old parchment looking stuff like that.
Space jam updated their logo this year to present a more responsible, organized image. Guess what i have a big ol Nautilus full of right now?
The crazy ads and labels just say to me: " Vape this! yea! Here, this too! Throw some of this ..... in there, and some of this, we don't care! YOLO !!
The best labeling IMHO is 5 Pawns. I like old parchment looking stuff like that.
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And here I was just thinking 5 Pawns was also an offender due to their use of game pieces and the parchment look. When I was around 12, that would have gotten my attention, currently... strikes me as trying too hard to be sophisticated or upper class or something along those lines. I don't think chess is any of those things, but I know many do. Those statements are just based on name and appearance, I'm not talking about price/availability/etc.
All of my local B&M's sell both Psyco Tunes and Space Jam and they sell incredibly well. They aren't selling to kids though, because they are very strict about ID. just a young audience.
It's not like once somebody turns 18, they lose their adolescent mindset. They love dance clubs, Hip-Hop, Dub Step music and Call of Duty video games.
This is exactly the audience they are marketing to and many beer & liquor companies do the exact same thing. Especially some of these vodka companies. I know even 25 year olds who are attracted to these specific juices.
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I would say they are aimed at adults and that if vendor/manufacturer is asked and they say 'aimed at adults' then it is not opinion. I can see an opinion that says 'this is over the line' but it kinda begs the question of what line? I take the line being that adults are not possibly attracted to that. But what if some are, even a minority? Then how is this different than 'flavors are targeted at kids' and we say 'no they are not' and our adversaries ask, what adult could possibly want to vape cotton candy? Surely not the majority. So, then if it is a minority, the assertion is that some kids, perhaps a lot of kids, would have appeal and that is grounds for not having it on the market.
I think all of this has to be put into perspective of we have adversaries that are zealots and won't stop with whatever we reasonably speaking vapers may agree on. Instead, we could get rid of say 20% that dances on this alleged line, and whence that is all gone, ANTZ will create a new line, where by 'cherry pie' and 'flaming blue guy on the package' is clearly crossing a line, or the newly established line. And if we bent so easily on psycho tunes stuff, then how would we not bend on items that are on the new line?
So, I say we stick to our guns. Unless it can be established that zero people over 18 find the items appealing, then it is political suicide for our side to give in without a) a fight and b) making sure our adversaries are abundantly clear on what line was crossed.
I recall the Senate hearing from early 2013 where Democrat senator was clearly grandstanding and claiming a whole bunch of rather middle of the road flavors could only possibly be aimed at kids. Flavors that I'm fairly certain many reading this thread have used and/or enjoyed. Admittedly, I don't know what type of vaper is using Psycho Tunes vapes, but I reckon it is some, or would be hard to see how remains on the market. And to assume it is only kids, vapers under 18, without proof is handing over small victories to ANTZ that may not be battles they would've won had they been contested rather than assumed an inherent problem.
Furthermore, it behooves us (vaping enthusiasts) to have low hanging fruit on the political tree just for this purpose. So ANTZ is held to solid explanation as to what the problem is and whatever solid guarantee they can give, or I would say absolutely must provide, before all adult vapers agree to have that pulled from the market.
I think there is more to this than meets the eye and senses. ANTZ would love nothing more than to increase the age. Cause realistically some say 18 to 24 year olds could find Psycho Tunes type vapes appealing. Hence adults. But if age is moved to 21 for right to legally vape, then half of what is plausibly target age for that type of product is eliminated, but far far more significantly a percentage of all (legal) vapers are removed from the market.
I find the whole age thing convoluted, hard to defend, and something that is constantly appealing to emotion. Yet, I realize it is a line (at age 18) that seemingly won't budge and so I just assume make it so those who have need to attack items that dance on the line defend the heck out of their reasoning rather than give in and essentially throw a whole lots of vapers under the bus.
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The distinction between a 'child' and a 'minor' has to be made regarding this issue. About half of the people under the age of 30 with whom I have contact are not what I would consider adults with regard to their thinking, attitude, and behavior. Appealing to these 'children' makes good business sense though. It's a big part of the market.
Making the claim that a company is intentionally targeting minors poses a few major difficulties for the pro-regulation people: it's very difficult to prove, it's far too specific with regard to the actual agenda, and it doesn't have the emotional impact of "save the children".
Protecting minor children from the harsh realities of the adult world is the job of the parents and the family unit. It is not the job of the big government 'village'.
Making the claim that a company is intentionally targeting minors poses a few major difficulties for the pro-regulation people: it's very difficult to prove, it's far too specific with regard to the actual agenda, and it doesn't have the emotional impact of "save the children".
Protecting minor children from the harsh realities of the adult world is the job of the parents and the family unit. It is not the job of the big government 'village'.
I sometimes go out to lunch when I'm working. You know those eateries which don't call their hamburgers hamburgers. They make up silly goofy names for their food. It embarrasses me to ask for them, I just point at the menu. Presumably some customers think it's cute or they wouldn't do it. Unfortunately not everyone is exactly like me.
To argue that certain names and images are aimed specifically at the age group 12 through 17, for example, you need to have at least some degree of evidence that people in that age group are consuming it. And consuming it preferentially over equivalent items with more adult sounding names. Maybe teenies want stuff with childish names and pictures, or maybe they want stuff that looks grown up. You need a bit more than "it's obvious that marketing strategy is aimed at children". Your common sense is my ideological nuttiness, and vice versa.
Everyone has opinions. When someone adorns their own opinion with words like common sense, obviously, everyone can see that, and then repeats it endlessly, I just turn off. Like you think I'm going to come round if you tell me how stupid and wrong I am often enough?
To argue that certain names and images are aimed specifically at the age group 12 through 17, for example, you need to have at least some degree of evidence that people in that age group are consuming it. And consuming it preferentially over equivalent items with more adult sounding names. Maybe teenies want stuff with childish names and pictures, or maybe they want stuff that looks grown up. You need a bit more than "it's obvious that marketing strategy is aimed at children". Your common sense is my ideological nuttiness, and vice versa.
Everyone has opinions. When someone adorns their own opinion with words like common sense, obviously, everyone can see that, and then repeats it endlessly, I just turn off. Like you think I'm going to come round if you tell me how stupid and wrong I am often enough?
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