E-liquid bottle designs are geared toward kids

[philoshop]

I really don't see how the "...marketed toward children..." claim can even be made in the case of vaping products, regardless of the packaging, when these products are not typically even in view of the age group. I haven't owned a tv in well over a decade so I have no first-hand knowledge but I can't imagine there are too many e-liquid commercials currently running, and I'd bet there are none being run during the 'cartoon hour'. Apparently the BT brands are on the airwaves but that issue really has to be considered separately in light of the fact that BT is partly behind the push for regulation in the first place.
Kid-friendly packaging won't work unless kids actually see it. Tobacco marketing was restricted because the packaging is/was prominently displayed behind the counter of every convenience store in the country. This is currently not the case with vaping products.

The idea of restricting packaging simply to appease the powers that be? That strategy is the first step off the cliff to surrender IMO.

 

[Dyanne]

This thread was supposed to be about the ridiculous idea of vapers targeting children. It got turned into a debate about *who* started the idea that vapers are targeting children. Friggin really? Like the source of the targeting children accusation could possibly have one single source. The mix of people, businesses, governmental bodies, religious nanny types, big tobacco (and on and on, which is all then twisted even more by sensational media attention) involved who want e-cigs gone is so twisted, convoluted and intertwined that there is no one straight path that leads to an answer to the question of who is doing the accusing, it's all of them combined!. The question is a juvenile attempt to appear more superior than everyone else by insisting there *is* answer and it must be given. Lame.

Didn't most of us start smoking as children, teenagers or young adults? What was our motivation for smoking? because our Friends were doing it and it looked cool? I don't know why you all started or when, but the history shows most of us started as young people. I think E-Cigs are wonderful to reduce harm of a bad tobacco habit but I do wish teens or children were not able to try them out or get addicted to the nicotine in them because they are attracted to the look of them or the technology or the flavors. On the flip side, if there are no E-Cigs will they try smoking? It seems with heavy marketing on the risks with graphic advertisement about the horrible diseases caused they are still trying them.

 

[Dyanne]

What we need to realize is tobacco, alcohol, and other products are not allowed to market in these way for a reason. It should be no different for a e liquid that's is meant to be sold to adults. Doing otherwise is nonsenseical.

yeah I think that is what I was trying to say before but you did it better lol.

 

[JimmyDB]

Didn't most of us start smoking as children, teenagers or young adults? What was our motivation for smoking? because our Friends were doing it and it looked cool? I don't know why you all started or when, but the history shows most of us started as young people. I think E-Cigs are wonderful to reduce harm of a bad tobacco habit but I do wish teens or children were not able to try them out or get addicted to the nicotine in them because they are attracted to the look of them or the technology or the flavors. On the flip side, if there are no E-Cigs will they try smoking? It seems with heavy marketing on the risks with graphic advertisement about the horrible diseases caused they are still trying them.

I started smoking after already graduating high school. I was in a severely stressful situation and had heard that cigs calm/relax you, turns out they didn't help with that... but I liked smoking. I simply asked someone to buy me a pack of whatever they smoked... then after a few days, I tried other ones until I figured out what I preferred.

So, in my case... it was a simple half-truth that lead the way... and not something I remember ever seeing in a commercial.

 

[Strings]

I (and most people I know) started smoking as a form of rebellion. Packaging/marketing was completely beside the point

 

[beckdg]

I (and most people I know) started smoking as a form of rebellion. Packaging/marketing was completely beside the point

kudos to you for bringing a little reality into the subject.

 

[Verb]

I (and most people I know) started smoking as a form of rebellion. Packaging/marketing was completely beside the point

Taboo + buzz + smoking Mom

 

[skoony]

99% peer pressure and or social bonding.

regards
mike

 

[sub4me]

So let's say many started smoking because it was cool or their friends did it or whatever the motivation is. Vaping goes hand in hand with that very thought of being cool, especially now. Many think blowing clouds is so cool, hip and fun to do, there are videos every where of teens vaping on mods, or smoking, or using hookahs. So when considering teens seeing smoking, vaping, and blowing clouds as cool it's very easy to see how those same teens wiil be drawn to a liquid called cosmic space juice or liquid mind melon with psychedelic coloring and giant cartoons in spaceships flying to the moon or monsters blowing clouds. Using these types of images and packaging is clearly aimed at them, its used to make the product appear cool or magical, and is by no means aimed towards an adult market place.

Now some may disagree but like the saying goes, you know it when you see it.

 

[Strings]

sub, you seem to have this thing for equating "adult" with "stodgy" or "boring"

LOTS of adults are drawn to bright colors and cartoony characters. Just because YOU are no longer drawn to them, doesn't make any difference

Teens are getting into vaping as a way to be "edgy". To rebel without the dangers of cigarette smoke. They are NOT getting into vaping because some juice company put a psycho-looking Mickey Mouse on their label

 

[sub4me]

Teens are getting into vaping as a way to be "edgy". To rebel without the dangers of cigarette smoke. They are NOT getting into vaping because some juice company put a psycho-looking Mickey Mouse on their label

I agree teens are using them because its seen as edgy or cool, the in thing to do. I don't think most saw a cartoon and suddenly desired to vape, however there's no doubt that once their interested in it they will by their nature be attracted to the cartoon psychodelic colored monkey on the bottle. If some want to dismiss that its up to them, but like I said you know it when you see it and I'm betting the general public does also.

I don't think it's to much to ask for responsible packaging on a adult intended product where ID is need to purchase the product.

 

[Jman8]

In my opinion, if kids were told the truth, the pros and cons about vaping, with no extra emphasis on cons, they would stand a far better chance of making truly informed choice to get into (or not get into) vaping than if they are told, "you must absolutely not get into vaping. Vaping nicotine is incredibly dangerous. Vaping nicotine can mess you up for life." That, to me, is telling a kid, "no, really I double dog dare you to try vaping and THEN tell me how bad it is." Oh wait, you like the flavors, you don't have the experience of incredible danger, you enjoy the same shiny toys that many adults sit around waiting for the mail person to deliver and then brag on internet forums about what they just got? This will not do.

ANTZ messaging is undue (and truly zealous) weight given to cons.
Vaping industry advertising is messaging that gives undue weight to pros.

Internet forums tend to have a more middle of the road approach, though admittedly one like ECF leans toward the pros. But if we are being perfectly honest, the pros do outweigh the cons, or even adults would be looking at vaping only as a temporary activity solely to stop smoking and that's all (with strong inclination to stop vaping ASAP).

To me, when we (so called) adults insist that the messaging has to be changed so the kids can understand it, and then pretend to think we know exactly how to communicate with kids, and then think fear will for sure work, we just done went a little into crazy-ville and are, in our own unique, and rather childish way, very responsible for getting kids into vaping, but pretending like we did no such thing.

All a smoker has to do is remember what life was like being around 16 and how certain adults were the opposite of helpful in their messaging about smoking. The adults that spoke to you like you were a fellow person with intelligence were the ones that made the most sense.

 

[sub4me]

Which all has nothing to do with the topic of labeling and is just opinion.

 

[AndriaD]

To me, when we (so called) adults insist that the messaging has to be changed so the kids can understand it, and then pretend to think we know exactly how to communicate with kids, and then think fear will for sure work, we just done went a little into crazy-ville and are, in our own unique, and rather childish way, very responsible for getting kids into vaping, but pretending like we did no such thing.

All a smoker has to do is remember what life was like being around 16 and how certain adults were the opposite of helpful in their messaging about smoking. The adults that spoke to you like you were a fellow person with intelligence were the ones that made the most sense.

Amen, amen, amen. I've said it before and I'll say it again: people under the age of 18 have brains, are human beings, and deserve to be treated as intelligent human beings, with RESPECT, not as ......ed midgets. I always talked to my son as if he understood everything I was saying to him -- and when he didn't, he'd ask. Everyone told me that when he became a teenager, that my charming, bright, out-going son would become a moody PITA... well guess what, he didn't; the older he got, the better I liked him, and he continued to be friendly and charming toward me and his dad, in most instances -- because we treated him like AN INTELLIGENT HUMAN BEING.

Maybe so many teens turn into moody PITAs because their parents treat them like ......ed midgets.

Andria

 

[NOVA jon]

^^^ again, I don't have kids but would think the reasonable thing is to raise them to be knowledgable. It's crazy to think they won't or can't make mistakes, that's just part of the process. You as a parent have to give them the tools to make good decisions!

I get what sub4me is saying and maybe on some level it's right on but to make the juice manufacturers change the labels or logos is their own choice. Could they be looking to target the "younger" adults? Maybe not. We all had a little shinyitis when we started vaping and cool looking juice bottles were very eye catching - ohhhhh what's that one??!!

Would anyone be able to actually stop them from making appealing labels? Don't know. Can we educate our children, of course. Will they listen, hopefully!!

 

[bigdancehawk]

I agree teens are using them because its seen as edgy or cool, the in thing to do. I don't think most saw a cartoon and suddenly desired to vape, however there's no doubt that once their interested in it they will by their nature be attracted to the cartoon psychodelic colored monkey on the bottle. If some want to dismiss that its up to them, but like I said you know it when you see it and I'm betting the general public does also.

I don't think it's to much to ask for responsible packaging on a adult intended product where ID is need to purchase the product.

Describe the packaging that would be prohibited in sufficiently specific terms to withstand a legal challenge that it's "void for vagueness." Then, how many bureaucrats would it take to enforce it and, assuming effective enforcement is possible, how many kids would not take up regular vaping who would have otherwise been motivated to do so by the prohibited packaging?

 

[Woofer]

Which all has nothing to do with the topic of labeling and is just opinion.

I've seen this from you before, you offer nothing but opinions and then chastise others for doing the same.

 

[sub4me]

Describe the packaging that would be prohibited in sufficiently specific terms to withstand a legal challenge that it's "void for vagueness." Then, how many bureaucrats would it take to enforce it and, assuming effective enforcement is possible, how many kids would not take up regular vaping who would have otherwise been motivated to do so by the prohibited packaging?

That's easy the exact same packaging tobacco companies use for their products and for the most part many e liquids companies now use. Look at the way JC bottles and labels their product, now take a look at the names of their products, I think their a very good example of responsible labeling and marketing which by the way has been extremely profitable.

Halo, a favorite brand of mine uses a little blue flaming guy, however I find that acceptable. I do believe most companies are using common sense labeling but the who aren't are in my opinion going way over the line.

With that in mind I have never said these companies are harming children or are after children to addict them, that's very strong language and not something I would agree with. But at the same time I do believe certain manufactuers are targeting the older teen crowd and trying to be perceived as hip or cool, that's my opinion as a vaper.

Now, if others don't see an issue with Psycho Tunes or Space Jams labels or liquid names for example that's ok, everyone is allowed to come to their own conclusions. I will say again I'm for responsible labeling. I don't even care if they sell nic levels at double the levels offered now.

 

[Verb]

That's easy the exact same packaging tobacco companies use for their products and for the most part many e liquids companies now use. Look at the way JC bottles and labels their product, now take a look at the names of their products, I think their a very good example of responsible labeling and marketing which by the way has been extremely profitable.

Halo, a favorite brand of mine uses a little blue flaming guy, however I find that acceptable. I do believe most companies are using common sense labeling but the who aren't are in my opinion going way over the line.

With that in mind I have never said these companies are harming children or are after children to addict them, that's very strong language and not something I would agree with. But at the same time I do believe certain manufactuers are targeting the older teen crowd and trying to be perceived as hip or cool, that's my opinion as a vaper.

Now, if others don't see an issue with Psycho Tunes or Space Jams labels or liquid names for example that's ok, everyone is allowed to come to their own conclusions. I will say again I'm for responsible labeling. I don't even care if they sell nic levels at double the levels offered now.

And that is why you should not buy cartooned labeled eliquid. If enough folks feel the same way, cartoony labels will fall to the wayside.
I could care less. Why? There's no data or proper analysis to support the idea that it promotes use by the youth. Many things are not as they seem.

Limiting packaging on tobacco had nothing to do with the children and was only implemented to limit competition from emmerging brands.

 

[sub4me]

I've seen this from you before, you offer nothing but opinions and then chastise others for doing the same.

No sir, I'm Not chastising anyone. Just about everything we read on web forums is someone's opinion. Even if yours or mine or anyone else's opinion is grounded in what we believe to be facts, those facts can and often are distorted to form our own beliefs which is just opinion. All of us come to a forum to learn, read, enjoy, and interact about a common interest. None of us will always agree with everyone. Some may say vaping is healthy, some may say its harm reduction, and others may say it harmful but less harmful, and some others may even say it's definitely harmful. All of those statements can be facts or can be opinion it just depends which statement or statements one chooses to adhere to.