E-liquid composition

[Geoffrey White]

The more I read on these forums, the more I seem to get confused, and/or learn that what I originally thought seems to be either based on incorrect or incomplete information, so I'm going to ask quite a few questions (and follow up questions) here...

From what I understand, the main ingredient(s) in e-liquid are either glycerin, propylene glycol, and/or polyethylene glycol.

Furthermore, it's my understanding that the above ingredient(s) might be diluted with either water or alcohol.

1. Why?
2. Which one does what?

For example, let's pretend I'm a diabetic (or at least need to stay away from sugar, and am on a strict diet) vegan (or at least outright cannot touch pig) who has asthma, and tends to get sick fairly often... And, that I want my e-cigs to last as long as possible (stay clean, etc.) because I'm either an environmentalist, or simply lazy, and cheap...

What ingredient(s) are the best option for me, and why?

I want to have a fuller understanding of all of this before I even bother to delve into nicotine and flavour(s)...

 

[Cullin Kin]

e-liquids these days are mixes of propylene glycol, vegetable glycerin, nicotine, and flavorings.

Propylene Glycol (PG) - Gives more of a throat hit, simulates the feel of smoke in your lungs more. More people seem to have an intolerance for this than VG.
Vegetable Glycerine (VG) - Produces a thicker more plumey vapor, and is smooth, almost unnoticeable when vaped (for me at least). It has a naturally sweet flavor so a lot of e-juice companies have been adding it to give a sweet base for their mixes.

As for what is the best option for you? That's something only you can decide. You can get PG/VG ratio's pretty much all over the board, and the best way to test it is to make your own juice at different ratio's. Personally, I love 20%PG/80%VG as it produces thick vapor and doesn't have too much of a throat hit. It also depends on what system you are using the juice in. A lot of tanks do not like higher VG content because it's so thick it produces dry hits. However, in RDA's you can vape 100%VG with no problem. I mean like you can just buy some VG and just straight up dump it in your RDA and you won't get dry hits, until it's gone at least.

 

[InTheShade]

I am almost 100% sure that current e-liquids do not contain PEG. I know some used to a few years ago, but I don't think it is used anymore.

I'll leave it to others to suggest e-liquid suppliers based on your stipulations.

I will add that water is usually only added to reduce viscosity - mainly in higher VG based liquids. Alcohol may be used for the same purpose but would usually be added to increase throat hit.
There can also be other ingredients added to e-liquids during the manufacturing process. These might include liquid sweetener like stevia, saline, vinegar, lemon juice as well as some others. These ingredients are added to reduce alkalinity, increase throat hit, improve mouth feel or as flavor enhancers.

The only true way to know what is in your particular e-liquid would be to make it yourself. PG, VG, flavorings and nicotine base are all widely available. Of course, you are still at the mercy of the manufacturers of those products, but you have at least eliminated a great deal of the variables by mixing your own.

Making your own is a relatively straight-forward process but is not without certain risks (especially if you are using a high strength nicotine base or have children or pets at home) so please do your research before taking this path. The DIY forum right here on ECF is a great resource.

 

[Rickajho]

=> http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/177551-pg-vg-peg.html

 

[kody2248]

I've never seen PEG listed as an ingredient. It's basically all PG VG blends with nicotine and flavoring, obviously. It's pretty simple though, just a handful of ingredients in E-Juice. I've read that PG carries flavor better than VG but like others have said PG is the 'throat hit' aspect of the juice. It could get a bit harsh with to much VG. I prefer a 70% VG 30% PG myself, but it's all personal preference. Apparently, these guys are much smarter than me with the 'mix your own and see what you like' comments. I just threw a bunch of money at 5 or 6 different juice companies trying to figure out what I liked.

 

[Geoffrey White]

Cullen Kin, I knew about most of what you pointed out, but... What's an RDA?

InTheShade, I've heard about alcohol possibly causing more TH, but I was wondering if there was any other purpose to using it... For instance, does it help keep the equipment cleaner and less gunked-up for longer?

=> http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/177551-pg-vg-peg.html

After reading through that, I'm starting to come to the conclusion that PG is safer than VG. Would I be wrong to believe that?

kody2248, I've also noticed some throat irritation with higher VG e-liquids, but I've also found that drinking something like Club Soda seems to help, oddly enough.

 

[Derek_66]

The label on my juice bottle lists the following ingredients:

Propylene Glycol
Glycerol
Pure Water
Methyfurfural
Trimethylpyrazine
Tetramethylpyrazine
Dimethylpyrazine
Acetylpyrazine
Methyl Butyric Acid
A-Terpineol
Megastigmatrienone
Nicotine
Natural Flavours

I'm guessing they're in decreasing volume order... like they do it on food packaging.

 

[somun]

Hi Geoffrey,

RDA stands for rebuildable dripping atomizer. It's an atomizer in which you prepare your own coil and wick and apply the juice by dripping from the top. It is not very complicated but I suggest you start with kits first. For PG/VG ratio everyone has a different preference. So you can try ordering some sample juices with varying ratios to find your own sweet spot. Most folks I know stay around 50/50.

 

[Dogzenkatz]

The constantly evolving literature does seem to suggest it is safer inhaling vaporized PG than VG, despite PG being more likely to be more artificial.

Aside from allegedly providing more of a throat hit, PG seems to be a popular humectant for flavours you might choose to include in your homebrews. Most of LorAnn's flavours I use contain humectant 1520 which is PG. Wilton's butter flavour is also water + PG. If it is about providing both throat hit and flavour, more of it I say!

I'd also like to add, that as a nicotine free vapist, I get all my stuff from a desserts supplies store. What I vape is essentially ice-cream without the cream or eggs. That's right! Your typical ice cream flavours are a VG/PG blend!

 

[Retro Man]

Hi Geoffrey,

You got the right idea it is best to take it slow and learn at a gradual pace. They key ingredients in all e juice consist of Propylene Glycol, Vegetable Glycerin, Flavoring which can range from organic to artificial and nicotine, those are they key 4 parts that assemble the juice composition. Some juices include alcohol, diacetyl, stevia etc.. Usually you'll find that in the cheaper juices or poorly made ones. It's best to keep those ingredients out of your juice. There are a myriad of juice suppliers who focus on using pharmaceutical grade ingredients that have been tested for purity. Once you find the right supplier you can then worry about ratio and nicotine levels. I suggest starting with these companies Virginvapor or Ahlusion

 

[Geoffrey White]

Derek_66, that really seems like quite a lot of ingredients for an e-liquid. The ones I bought were usually only PG, VG, flavour, nicotine, and sometimes alcohol.

somun, thank you for the information and advice. My first e-cig was a Joyetech eGo-CC with an upgraded Joyetech eGo passthrough battery, but I wasn't very impressed with it. Now I'm mostly using an Innokin iTaste VV with a KangerTech Mini ProTank II, and/or a Mini ProTank 3, and occasionally (socially) a Joyetech eRoll.

Dogzenkats and Retro Man, I'm actually most concerned right now with using the safest ingredients from the safest suppliers, so as it appears PG is safer than VG, and we all seem to know that the safest VG is Dow Optim... I'm now wondering what. The safest PG is. Any ideas?

 

[Ryedan]

Derek_66, that really seems like quite a lot of ingredients for an e-liquid. The ones I bought were usually only PG, VG, flavour, nicotine, and sometimes alcohol.

This is the problem with ingredient listings.

Propylene glycol is 1,2-propanediol or propane-1,2-diol. Glycerin is propanetriol or 1,2,3-trihydroxypropane.

USP PG and VG are I believe 99.7% pure. What is the remaining 0.3% and do we need to list that too?

Flavorants are made up of several substances. I believe a lot of Derek's list is a breakdown of these. Also, not every strawberry flavorant for example will have the same ingredient list, so you can't just list 'strawberry flavor'.

 

[Geoffrey White]

This is the problem with ingredient listings.

Propylene glycol is 1,2-propanediol or propane-1,2-diol. Glycerin is propanetriol or 1,2,3-trihydroxypropane.

USP PG and VG are I believe 99.7% pure. What is the remaining 0.3% and do we need to list that too?

Flavorants are made up of several substances. I believe a lot of Derek's list is a breakdown of these. Also, not every strawberry flavorant for example will have the same ingredient list, so you can't just list 'strawberry flavor'.

Generally, almost every company I've seen that makes food products (and e-liquids) here in Canada just adds, "natural and/or artificial flavours," to the list of ingredients, instead.

 

[Geoffrey White]

There are a myriad of juice suppliers who focus on using pharmaceutical grade ingredients that have been tested for purity. Once you find the right supplier you can then worry about ratio and nicotine levels.

I really wish there were a stickied thread specifically for suppliers who focus on using pharmaceutical grade ingredients...

I'm actually already starting to worry about nicotine...
Specifically the fact that Health Canada has banned the import/export of it.

So, now I need to figure out a way to get my hands on some quality inexpensive nicotine...

 

[DaveP]

This is the problem with ingredient listings.

Propylene glycol is 1,2-propanediol or propane-1,2-diol. Glycerin is propanetriol or 1,2,3-trihydroxypropane.

USP PG and VG are I believe 99.7% pure. What is the remaining 0.3% and do we need to list that too?

Flavorants are made up of several substances. I believe a lot of Derek's list is a breakdown of these. Also, not every strawberry flavorant for example will have the same ingredient list, so you can't just list 'strawberry flavor'.

Since PG and VG are humectants and absorb water out of the air, they are like alcohols in that the process of manufacturing can't make a 100% pure product. Some percentage of water is absorbed from humidity in the factory. It's why you can't buy 200 proof alcohol. That would be 100% pure. My Humco VG says it's 99.5% pure.

 

[Derek_66]

Derek_66, that really seems like quite a lot of ingredients for an e-liquid. The ones I bought were usually only PG, VG, flavour, nicotine, and sometimes alcohol.

The unpronounceable stuff is artificial flavours as Ryedan said. I'm just glad they went to the trouble of printing it on the label
It's a pity all e-juice vendors don't do it.

I'm actually already starting to worry about nicotine...
Specifically the fact that Health Canada has banned the import/export of it.

So, now I need to figure out a way to get my hands on some quality inexpensive nicotine...

Are you saying that e-juice with nic content is unavailable in Canada? or just concentrated nicotine?

 

[Bold Rascal]

Very helpful thread. I have to laugh at myself when I consider how many years I smoked and could have cared less about what I was ingesting along with it.

Now that I have quit and vape instead, I have somehow come to a place when I want to know exactly what my juice ingredients are, are they pharma or kosher? are they not just good but very good quality?

I use a good quaility chinese made mod, but would not touch a chinese made juice.

I'm starting to look at organics now.
I guess that once I was finally able to wiggle out of the death grip of smoking, I realized that I still had a lot of years left in me and if I'm going to vape, I'll at least vape the best and safest juice I can afford.

 

[Geoffrey White]

The unpronounceable stuff is artificial flavours as Ryedan said. I'm just glad they went to the trouble of printing it on the label
It's a pity all e-juice vendors don't do it.





Are you saying that e-juice with nic content is unavailable in Canada? or just concentrated nicotine?

I'm sorry about the late reply... I've been unable to use these forums until now.

In any event, to answer your question as best I can:
It's my understanding that in Canada, at the federal level, Health Canada has stated that selling e-liquids with nicotine in them is illegal, and has been sending cease-and-desist letters to various companies, but other than that, they haven't really enforced the law (making all e-liquids de facto legal). However, Canadian customs (the Canada Border Services Agency) seemingly do (occasionally) enforce the apparent ban on the import/export of nicotine to/from Canada.

Also... The bottom of your list of ingredients states, "natural flavours," so why would all of the other chemicals listed be flavours as well? :/