E-liquid ingredient (PG) question

[Mindfield]

I bought juice and I like it but I realize I bought too high mg for me - I can deal with it but wish I could dilute it somewhat - when I use to vape (around 2001) and then went back to analogs - now back on ecigs for the last few days - I use to use something I bought at Michaels Store, I think it was PG liquid to dilute my juice or mix - but it got so thin or whatever. Is there any other way to dilute the strength, I saw some non-nicotine juice but it was very expensive for it, will that work if I can find cheaper non-nicotine Juice to dilute it? Thanks for any help, Darlene

Vegetable glycerine (or just "glycerine") should be available in most drug stores and probably some bakeries. Propylene glycol is often available at farm stores such as TSC. Just make sure that the bottles say "USP" on them, that indicates that they're pharmacy-grade and safe for consumption. That should help you dilute your juices nicely, though naturally it'll dilute flavour some as well depending on how much you add.

 

[Michael Curry]

If you dilute it with plain PG or VG, you will be diluting the flavor as well.

You didn't say how much of it there is, or what levels, so can't do specifics, but as an example:

Bought 24mg - too strong
Buy same flavor in 0mg
Mix the two.
Result is double the amount of juice, properly flavored, but now 12mg.

Yes, you will have spent twice as much, but you also have twice the juice. Not to mention, you are not increasing your nic addiction by getting yourself used to a higher level. Because that will happen fast.

Stored in a cool dark place, juice can last up to 2 years.

 

[Darlene7]

Thanks for the responses, I looked for the flavors I bought on the site but they do not have 0mg in the flavors I bought. I can deal with this, just realize I made a mistake - if I have to I will use the PG I use to use. Right now my mg is at 18 and would like to get it down to 10 or under, do you know how much PG I would have to add to get that mg? Thanks again for the replies. Darlene

 

[Mindfield]

Thanks for the responses, I looked for the flavors I bought on the site but they do not have 0mg in the flavors I bought. I can deal with this, just realize I made a mistake - if I have to I will use the PG I use to use. Right now my mg is at 18 and would like to get it down to 10 or under, do you know how much PG I would have to add to get that mg? Thanks again for the replies. Darlene

You'd have to add approximately 40% to bring 18mg down to around 10mg. (Actually closer to 11mg at 40%, but close enough.) If the site has any level below 10mg (like 6mg) you could get some of that and add 40% from your 18mg, that would bring it up to 10mg.

 

[dormouse]

Darlene - That would dilute the flavor too much - you would almost be cutting the flavor in half. I would mix whatever the lowest they sell is (of the same juice) - like if they sell 6mg, equal parts of 18mg and 6mg would make 12mg juice. I think 2 parts 18mg and 3 parts 6mg would make 10.8mg juice?

If you really want to cut your juice from 18mg to 10mg or less with plain PG or VG and lose a lot of the flavor, than 1 part 18mg and 1 part plain VG or PG will make 9mg juice. But warning - if you use VG it will be significantly thicker than it was and may not work well in cartomizers or tanks.

 

[Darlene7]

Darlene - That would dilute the flavor too much - you would almost be cutting the flavor in half. I would mix whatever the lowest they sell is (of the same juice) - like if they sell 6mg, equal parts of 18mg and 6mg would make 12mg juice. I think 2 parts 18mg and 3 parts 6mg would make 10.8mg juice?

If you really want to cut your juice from 18mg to 10mg or less with plain PG or VG and lose a lot of the flavor, than 1 part 18mg and 1 part plain VG or PG will make 9mg juice. But warning - if you use VG it will be significantly thicker than it was and may not work well in cartomizers or tanks.

Thanks for that info - but I thought if I tried to dilute with lower amount of same juice I would only be strengthening the juice. I have 16mg right now - are you saying if I bought 5mg of the same flavor and mixed them I would be lowering the strength and not raising it by 5mg more? Really hope I am understanding this right. About how much 5mg would I need to mix with the 18mg to bring it down to 10 or 11mg? thanks so much, Darlene

 

[Balthezar]

You can get e-juice calculators, I use Easy E-Juice Recipe Creator (can google it) and it will give you the nic level as you add % of mixes, like nic @ 18mg, VG, flavor, and it will calculate your ending nic level as well as tell you how many drops or ml for your total mix in ml. I use it all the time. There are other calculators you can find also, but I find this one the simplest to use.

Balth

 

[dormouse]

The mg of nicotine is per ml. So it always averages when you combine two juices.

So for example, 2 parts of 18mg and 3 parts of 6mg

2 x 18mg = 36
3 x 6mg = 18
-----------
54mg total / 5 parts = 10.8mg average is the resulting juice

 

[Darlene7]

Thank you dormouse and Balthezar - I think I'm catching on now - everyone on this forum is so helpful and reading others posts help so much too. Thanks again, Darlene

 

[panto911]

good info!

 

[Fernand]

The original poster was asking about the safety of PG. Having thought about this a little more, I am not sure he/she has the temperament for vaping. The truth is that although both PG and VG have been tested as food additives, they have had very little testing as inhaled substances. Unless a person is willing to take a significant risk, they will always be anxious about it. Haven't you noticed how vapers tend to be rebels?

This risk is even more true of flavorings, that have never ever been conceived as inhalable! Most juice vendors slather on amounts of flavoring that are nuts, because it sells juice, but with no concern for safety. FlavourArt, who make their own flavoring, recommend 1-4% flavoring, whereas most juice makers use over 10 or even 20%. One vendor i know uses 40%. This is a whole different story from PG/VG and nicotine! Darlene, i would try adding an equal amount of Glycerin USP (VG) to cut the nicotine to 9 mg/ml and see if the reduced amount of flavoring isnt after all acceptable. Chances are, it will taste fine, and be twice as safe.

 

[dormouse]

PG has been tested as an inhaled substance and I posted a link to a thread about that. And hospitals use PG vapor to deliver inhaled medications. I believe it's also used in asthma inhalers. It's used in concert fog. But I agree - I would be more concerned about inhaling random food flavorings and especially the colorings. I try to avoid the colorings and juices that have a lot of sediment - I like clear no-sediment juices with as little color as possible. And we know that a particular custard flavoring ingredient diacetyl is not considered safe to vape.

 

[DaveP]

For some extensive studies on the effects of PG, check out this link. Lab rats have spent 12-18 months in a PG vapor rich environment. The control group breathed normal air. At the end of the study, the PG rats were healthier and no ill effects were discovered. Another study was 18-24 months with monkeys.

https://www.zeecigs.com/PDF/Propylene-Glycol-Research-Study-Results.pdf

 

[eyenstein]

I bought juice and I like it but I realize I bought too high mg for me - I can deal with it but wish I could dilute it somewhat - when I use to vape (around 2001) and then went back to analogs - now back on ecigs for the last few days - I use to use something I bought at Michaels Store, I think it was PG liquid to dilute my juice or mix - but it got so thin or whatever. Is there any other way to dilute the strength, I saw some non-nicotine juice but it was very expensive for it, will that work if I can find cheaper non-nicotine Juice to dilute it? Thanks for any help, Darlene

Go to CVS or Walmart and buy some Vegetable glycerin making sure it say USP on it somewhere (dirt cheap too). mix in small doses so you don't kill the flavor of an entire bottle. It will make huge clouds of vapor since VG tends to thicken the liquid and the vapor..

 

[dormouse]

USP does not mean all-vegetable. Glycerin with the purity certification of USP can also contain animal glycerin which does not taste good to vape. Humco has said their USP Glycerin is all vegetable (sold in Walmart near the rubbing alcohol). And the pricier Wilton Glycerin can be found with the cake decorating supplies in Michael's Crafts. Or you can buy VG online.

 

[Fernand]

The economic incentive for USP glycerin to be all vegetable says more than all the vendor claims. So much Glycerin is produced so cheaply as a side-product of biodiesel that they PAY to have it hauled away. Anybody with a tanker truck can likely get it filled for free. It's hilarious that some sites sell "organic" or "special" glycerin for as much as they can get. Darlene, to do some quickie tests on (as rightly suggested) small quantities of your juice, just pick up a little bottle of Glycerin USP wherever. Put a drop on your tongue. If it tastes sweet and clean, it's usable.

 

[Fernand]

For some extensive studies on the effects of PG, check out this link. Lab rats have spent 12-18 months in a PG vapor rich environment. The control group breathed normal air. At the end of the study, the PG rats were healthier and no ill effects were discovered. Another study was 18-24 months with monkeys.

https://www.zeecigs.com/PDF/Propylene-Glycol-Research-Study-Results.pdf

In context, I.e. how long it takes to determine the long-term effects of chronic inhalation in humans, that's accurately described as "very little testing". Not none. Remember how long it took for smoking to be better understood? I'm for instance confident that fatigue/sedation and stimulation of gastric secretions will emerge as bona fide side effects of PG, not to speak of dehydration. I feel it's a very acceptable risk/tradeoff, but not everyone will.

The story with flavoring is very different. Only a handful of the hundreds or thousands of compounds used to blend flavors have had even ANY inhalation toxicity testing. The safest move would be to vape unflavored, the second safest is to keep flavoring to a minimum. The sweet rich creamy juices that are so popular present a very high risk of containing one or more of the diketones that reliably cause scarring of respiratory tissues in test animals. Claims of "diacetyl-free" are used to avoid mentioning use of other diketones. To smoke when given the option of vaping makes no sense. To vape heavily flavored juices, given the option of using light flavoring, makes just as little sense.

DIY gives you control. Cutting a commercial juice 50/50 with glycerin may be a good start.

 

[ChodaBoy]

I've been using my e-cig for a bit over a month and have tried 3 types of e-liquid.
70/30 PG-VG from ovale.
100% PG from dekang
100% VG from dekang
My body seems to be allergic to the PG. I get headaches and after a while I feel ill (like the onset of the Flu). It may be pure coincidence but I have been sick for the past week or so. Not blaming the ecig because I also consumed large quantities of alcohol the prior week as well
However the juices with PG have more flavor. And the one I enjoy the taste of the most is the 70/30 from ovale. But like you, I am also worried about the short and long term effects of these chemicals. Individual physiology is different. Maybe I'm just allergic to it or perhaps it IS harmful. I wish that we could get some real and unbiased testing and also some regulation.

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You don't have to worry about the regulation. Aftrer the first of the year all juice sold will have to be from an fda approved lab, this is hearsay but from a reliable source who also let spill that with the new tobacco regulation on flavored tobacco i.e. grape cigars and what-have-you that they are doing away with flavored juice as they believe it is marketed towards minors. so stock up on your favorite juice and practice your dyi.

 

[DaveP]

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You don't have to worry about the regulation. Aftrer the first of the year all juice sold will have to be from an fda approved lab, this is hearsay but from a reliable source who also let spill that with the new tobacco regulation on flavored tobacco i.e. grape cigars and what-have-you that they are doing away with flavored juice as they believe it is marketed towards minors. so stock up on your favorite juice and practice your dyi.

Your tax money at work. No more snickerdoodle or cotton candy. But we'll know (think) that it is safe. I'm not sure I believe the FDA after the little DEG fiasco and the splattering all over the press about the trace levels of a carcinogen at 8ng/ml. They could have at least admitted that it was equal to that found in nicotine lozenges and inhalers.

 

[Fernand]

I can't imagine them getting anything together this fast, even if it's right up their prohibitionist alley. OSHA has mandated Hazard labeling on any flavoring that contains 1% diacetyl or other diketones since early 2011. Have you seen them inspecting anything? Regulation is the ignorants' substitute for knowledge.

I for one couldn't care less what they do and don't sanction. But clearly, one way or another, there's DIY in everybody's long term future.