I wouldn't say it's an "unknown" at this point. There is a great deal known about it that points more towards "safer than tobacco"
propylene glycol, and glycerine...... see this, if you havent already.
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I wouldn't say it's an "unknown" at this point. There is a great deal known about it that points more towards "safer than tobacco"
My "feeling" is that e-cigs are a lot safer than cigarettes, but as far as conclusive I consider it to be "unknown" at this point. I am firmly convinced that cigarettes are very bad for you so, yes, I'd also wager on e-cigs being a lot safer. But only because it's an unknown against a certainty.
I hate to spam and be a big mouth, But the thing I always have said many times about cigarettes is that everyone forgets one vital piece of information. Yes cigarettes kill you and are not good for your health. But a very important part that is hardly mentioned is that cigarettes are very long term killers. Think about the amount of abuse one needs to do with cigarettes in order to get COPD or some other kind of disease. We are talking about, on average, 20 to 40 or more cigarettes every single day, 7 days a week for around 20 to 50 years. Most people who get diagnosed are very long-term smokers. Thats not to say cigarettes do no damage in five or 10 years, but overall, I would conclude they are long term killers.
I have never stated anything different. I have always compared vaping as a alternative to smoking. It is a no-brainer which is safer. I am happy to believe that I have quit smoking, which I have. I have replaced it with vaping, exactly the same principle to replacing smoking with chewing gum.
No offense meant, but the statement is categorically true in the sense that it has been proven that vaporized (low temp) material has the same original characteristics far and above the combusted (burning at high temp) materials. Heat does change molecular aspects of a compound or a mixture of compounds.
Check out what happens to nicotine combusted with formaldehyde, for example.
I just don't see the "probable" comparison between smoking cigarettes for 50 years, and vaping for 50 years, but I'll be happy to come back here and let you know how that was for me. I'll be 113, so give me some time to crank up my computer, it will be connected to my wheel chair drive box!
I don't see your fear, I guess is what I mean...the chemical soup of cigarettes have far outweighed any possible comparison to vaporized VG inhalation of nicotine. The batteries may be a problem, however, we should watch that. They are mostly Li-ion, never know about possible close-quarter contaminations, off-gasing. The mouthpieces may contain melamine or something as far reaching. The fiber filling may have connotations beyond the scope of our so-far expertise, but so far the evidence is not noted anywhere. You shouldn't use plastic wrap on food in your microwave, so there may be something there. However these things are also present in the glues and filters of cigarettes as well, the ink on the rolling paper.
By golly, I think I'll stick with the e-cigs for now.
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I'm totally confused by your response paladinx. Did I miss something? Why is that dumb????? Rather PScribbles was or was not refering to NRT chewing gum doesn't even matter...although I'm thinking he was. But if you can quit smoking by replacing cigarettes with another oral and relatively harmless habit...what is dumb about that????
Yes, but I was speculating on the combined effect. For example, burning some substance in cigarettes *with* another substance in cigarettes might make one or the other substance much more safe or harmful than burning it by itself. Same for the substances in e-cigs. In one case substances are combined and burned as a mixture. In the other case substances are combined and vaporized as a mixture. I have no idea of the difference (or if there is one) between:
1) the delivery of a particular substance via smoke vs. via vapor.
2) the delivery of a particular substance when burned and inhaled in combination with other substances vs. combined with other substances and vaporized.
Even when you consider the substances in isolation without considering any interactions with the other substances. Let's say nicotine in isolation for example. I'm not convinced you can make the statement that nicotine is in cigarettes and nicotine is in e-cigs so the nicotine in e-cigs cannot be any more harmful than the nicotine in cigarettes (assuming the same quantities in each).
I do understand your questioning the validity of saying one combination is better than another. But there is verifiable proof through testing that my vaping has left me with far less nicotine metabolised than had I kept smoking, so the same amount of nicotine is far less harmful than in a cigarette, because I'm absorbing it a far lesser degree, ng to ng, about 1/10th the amount, smoke vs vapor. Plus I don't worry about other chemicals reacting together that were trying their darndest to kill me!
A person could certainly be using dangerous amounts of nicotine, say 48mg/ml, if I was constantly vaping all the time, but even then, I would be limited by my total day's intake, and the fact that less is absorbed . It would also mean I'd be on the couch retching if I did that, that would be over-dose to me. Emptying a cartful in one sitting would probably stop my heart, but I would be violently ill before I could do that. No, I don't recommend those high density juices!!
errr, ummm, nicotine was just an example. pick chemicals x, y, and z. Let's say that cigarettes contain chemicals a - y and e-cigs contain chemicals v - z. I don't think you can take y out of context and say it can't be any worse. y mixed and burned with x may have a completely different effect or degree than y mixed and vaporized with z.
I certainly don't know. I was just saying that you can't make the assumption that since cigarettes contain y then y in e-cigs can't be any more harmful. That's all.
I certainly don't know. I was just saying that you can't make the assumption that since cigarettes contain y then y in e-cigs can't be any more harmful. That's all.
I thought he meant chewing gum as in like regular gum not nicorette thats why i said that was dumb. But I was joking anyway. It got me a warning by the moderators though lol. I think thats a little ridiculous to get a warning cause I said that was a dumb statement joking with the guy.
To clarify, Chewing gum, or even nicorette to me isnt the same as vaping. Vaping not only gives nicotine, but it allows us to keep our habit... Its a double whammy to keep us off cigarettes thats why people really enjoy it.
I said my piece here, it is obvious that the forum cannot take a simple point into consideration, and pretty soon they will start tosing bans out in my direction for speaking my opinion. I believe what i said was logical and made sense, and I never made any definitive claims either way. I just said its a new technology, its a brand new way of using PG and other ingredients, and we do not have every answer or close to it at this point. I choose to vape because current information and common sense point towards ecigs being safer. But i will keep an eye out and an open mind just in case. Thats all.
To clarify, Chewing gum, or even nicorette to me isnt the same as vaping. Vaping not only gives nicotine, but it allows us to keep our habit... Its a double whammy to keep us off cigarettes thats why people really enjoy it.
I said my piece here, it is obvious that the forum cannot take a simple point into consideration, and pretty soon they will start tosing bans out in my direction for speaking my opinion. I believe what i said was logical and made sense, and I never made any definitive claims either way. I just said its a new technology, its a brand new way of using PG and other ingredients, and we do not have every answer or close to it at this point. I choose to vape because current information and common sense point towards ecigs being safer. But i will keep an eye out and an open mind just in case. Thats all.
Paladinx, I get you! And you're right, absolutely. We don't know for certain. But with as much researching as we all have done, I consider it conclusive enough evidence to have a little faith in vaping. We do know we have greatly improved our health. I have no doubt about that.
Can you even believe a smoker ever checked out tobacco cigarettes to this extent. NO WAY! (Most stuff was secret, but now we have tremendously easily found information on any subject imaginable. Not true for me, 40+ years ago.)
But I can say is that had I not done the switch I would be probably in very bad shape right now. (I don't want to say the D word.)
I know I've said this before, but I still intend to come back here after 40 years of vaping to give you my comparative report. Ok?
Can you even believe a smoker ever checked out tobacco cigarettes to this extent. NO WAY! (Most stuff was secret, but now we have tremendously easily found information on any subject imaginable. Not true for me, 40+ years ago.)
But I can say is that had I not done the switch I would be probably in very bad shape right now. (I don't want to say the D word.)
I know I've said this before, but I still intend to come back here after 40 years of vaping to give you my comparative report. Ok?
Your cat looks a lot like mine. btw
thats good. I hope everyone here believes to whatever extent that Ecigs are a safer alternative to smoking. Would be silly to even do it if you didnt think that was the case. I think thats the case. I think they are a lot safer, but at the same time I will not attribute everything negative to an allergy or witdrawal symptoms, and I will choose to keep an open mind, cause you never know. Thats my outlook. Everyone is entiled to have their own, and we should all speak our piece to state our point... , but at the same time, in the end, respect each others perspectives. I do see people a lot of times getting a little ...... or giving someone heat if they do not agree with the general consensus
regards
thats good. I hope everyone here believes to whatever extent that Ecigs are a safer alternative to smoking. Would be silly to even do it if you didnt think that was the case. I think thats the case. I think they are a lot safer, but at the same time I will not attribute everything negative to an allergy or witdrawal symptoms, and I will choose to keep an open mind, cause you never know. Thats my outlook. Everyone is entiled to have their own, and we should all speak our piece to state our point... , but at the same time, in the end, respect each others perspectives. I do see people a lot of times getting a little ...... or giving someone heat if they do not agree with the general consensus
regards
I agree. No other form of "quitting" ever gave you the whole act thing. I know there are some people that just enjoy the whole act. I am one of them. Getting up for 5-7 mintues during the day for a smoke break at work always helped the day go by or helped me cool off is someone was being dense. Admittedly I dont vape at work, I do miss the short breaks. Now that the weather is getting better, going fishing/camping would prove always difficult when the people you are with are smokers, and you just want to join in for the hell of it...that was always trouble for me and why I would always eventually start smoking again, and I believe e-cigs will help me with that regard. Whats positive is that more and more people are bringing this up with their DRs. People are sharing their expeirences....even people on this forum are in the medical fields like RNs or med students, and to me that is promising...
I have a very very stong feeling that something is up with big tabaccos and the FDA. They cant ingnore this any longer, and they can ban, but there will always be a market and a way to get them. Whats the old saying? If you cant beat them, join'em. I am convinced that we will see in the not to distant future big tobaccos release their OWN versions of e-cigs, branding taxing and all. The would be STUPID not to. There is just way to much money to be lost in smoking alternatives, that actually WORK. They are Sh&*#ng their pants right now...
I have a very very stong feeling that something is up with big tabaccos and the FDA. They cant ingnore this any longer, and they can ban, but there will always be a market and a way to get them. Whats the old saying? If you cant beat them, join'em. I am convinced that we will see in the not to distant future big tobaccos release their OWN versions of e-cigs, branding taxing and all. The would be STUPID not to. There is just way to much money to be lost in smoking alternatives, that actually WORK. They are Sh&*#ng their pants right now...
Just so u guys know im not trying to put down anything or a forum troll and speaking honestly. I am a user and i even did a video review on one model
YouTube - Disposable 510 electronic cigarette from Madvapes.com
regards
YouTube - Disposable 510 electronic cigarette from Madvapes.com
regards
Most anything is toxic at a certain level. Vit D is highly toxic and we put it in our kids milk. Both PG & VG are common additives to food and drugs. You should be FAR more concerned about the toxins, carcinogens, and health effects of tobacco cigarettes. As a physician, I can only say, get real.
We don't know the long-term effects of PG/VG inhalation. For all we know, after 40 years of use, we could develop all sorts of things like scar tissue in the lungs, ulcerations, etc. We do know that smoking cigarettes causes cancer, heart disease, circulatory problems, COPD...need I go on? (We've all heard the lectures.) I honestly hope I won't be using an e-cig daily for the next 20-40 years. I hope that my use gradually decreases until it is just a crutch for when I might consider picking up a cigarette. I am now down to just a puff or two a day on a cigarette. Progression towards a healthy lifestyle is a good thing in my book.
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