E-Liquid Nicotine consumption table & vaping method

[Rixx]

Hi all

I received my Ego-Twist today and I've "literally" just started vaping! Few questions -

1. I ordered a 20ml bottle of "Gold and Silver" with a 24mg strength.. By my calculations 1ml of the liquid works out to be 0.83mg of nicotine (20/24). Is this correct?

Each of my analogue cigarettes have 0.7mg of nicotine. I smoke 20 a day and so consume a total of 14mg per day.

I would be very grateful if someone could breakdown how much nicotine is consumed from E liquid against my analogue baseline.


2. It's obvious after a few vapes/pulls that you don't use it like you would a cigarette. I'm a little confused however after reading some other threads on this forum. Should I inhale? Am I supposed to just press the button and wait 5 seconds, then hold the vape in my mouth for a few more seconds then exhale?

I tried inhaling and started coughing lol (as if I were learning to smoke again haha!). I also tried to just inhale slightly and although I didn't cough, I did feel 'throat burn' if that makes sense.


3. Lastly, how do the voltage settings on the Ecigs effect the experience (in general)? I'm not sure if this is purely subjective and to the users preference or whether there is more to it that I'm not understanding..

Any advice would be appreciated!

Cheers

RS

 

[Xaiver]

First of all, good on you for making the switch, it's not easy.

There really haven't been enough studies done to know exactly how much of the nicotine is absorbed from vaping. The general rule of thumb is: if you're craving more, vape more. If you're starting to get nauseous/headachey, set it down for a bit and drink some more water. I used to smoke a little over a pack per day, and I started on 18mg liquid, never needed to raise it. Of course I rarely set my PV down, and still don't unless I need to. A year later, I was vaping at 10mg, completely happy.

The nicotine from an analouge (Yes, I'll indulge your colourful spelling ) is absorbed through the mouth, but mostly in your lungs. The vapor from a PV seems to be able to be absorbed equally well in both places, though inhaling feels much more satisfying once you become used to it. With a PV, you want to take slow, gentle draws into your mouth, and then take it into your lungs after you've moved the PV away from your mouth. That was the technique that I used for smoking, so it wasn't much different for me.

The reason that you're coughing is that the particles from the PV is actually much thicker and heavier than smoke. If you blow smoke rings with an analouge, they rise. If you blow smoke rings from a PV, they sink. Logically, that is why you cough, your lungs are a little overwhelmed by them. You can either get used to it, or you can take shorter drags. That little nudge in your throat is from the nicotine and partially from the PG, it's sort of simulating smoking, except that it comes across a bit stronger.

The last question is a bit more complicated... Okay, the end result is Watts. Wattage is the heat of your vape. Wattage is Voltage * Voltage / Resistance. Voltage is obvious, if you set your twist at 4.0, then you've got 4 volts. Resistance is the Atty/Carto/Etc, implied in Ohms. If you had a 2.0 ohm Carto, at 4 volts, you're getting 8 watts. Typically, people prefer somewhere between 7 and 9 watts. Go over 9, and you're getting a pretty hot vape, under 7 and it's probably going to feel a bit unsatisfying. Also, if you go over 9 watts, some of your flavors won't taste very good, and may even be heating faster than the wick can wick, leading to the nasty burning taste. There's a whole range of flavors, and each one has a 'sweet spot' on the wattage scale, where they taste the best, but the only way to figure that out is to experiment.

Cheers mate,
-X

 

[weaponX]

Rixx-

Wonderful to hear that you have made the switch and welcome! You are in very good company. I would not have made it as long without the support of this awesome community!

In regards to your nicotine level:

your calculations are incorrect. the label 24mg is per ml. Though your cig calculation is correct. the only difference is with vaping you actually absorb more nicotine than analogs due to the delivery process.
without combustion a lot more of the nicotine is protected and absorbed easier by the body. I have found that i actually dont need as high of a nicotine level to satisfy me. I also started at 24mg but am now at 16mg. MHO is that the only advantage to having a higher nic level is more "TH" throat hit (or as you called throat burn). I found that i needed more TH to get away from the analogs. It will take a little while for your body to heal from the damage smoke has caused, and for you to get feeling and taste back. I even like foods now that i didnt before because i can actually taste them lol.

Hitting the PV:

it is definitely not a cigarette. and will take some experimentation to get the pull/drag down right. once you do, you'll know. Everyone has different styles that give them their desired sensation. be patient, experiment, youll figure it out.

Personally i 'direct inhale'. Hit the pv as soon as i push the button and inhale simultaneously. This saves atomizer and battery life, but may not be the sensation you are looking for. The beauty of vaping is the versatility we have. Especially with your twist!
If your coughing, then you did something wrong The heating element is getting way too hot and burning the liquid. BAD. try a higher resistance atty or lower voltage setting.

Voltage:

Yes. It absolutely effects the experience. There is quite a bit of math involved (blah blah) but to put it simply, think of voltage as a thermostat. The higher the voltage the hotter your atty is getting. More heat produces more vapor and more TH. the disadvantage is it dries up quicker and has the potential of burning the liquid or damaging your atty. The lower the voltage produces a cooler vape with less TH and less vapor. Eventually you will find a sweet spot. Mine is 3.8-3.9v with a 2-2.2ohm atty. Any higher and its too hot for my taste, but everyone is different. Thats why im encouraging you to experiment.

Congrats again on getting off the cancer sticks! Please feel free to PM with any questions. Had plenty of help on my path and know how daunting all the info can be. Keep browsing and asking questions.

 

[rolygate]

Some points to clarify:

1. Anyone can get their doctor to carry out a 'blood plasma nicotine test' to see exactly what the nicotine level in their bloodstream is, to verify the level of nicotine they get compared to smoking. Hundreds if not thousands of these have been carried out, both by individuals and during clinical trials of e-cigarettes.

All sorts of results can be expected, depending on the circumstances. What we do have absolute proof of from these tests is that (a) e-cigarettes deliver nicotine to the blood, (b) as long as the equipment/liquid/advice chain is correctly managed [1], they deliver enough nicotine to do the job, and (c) the results for expert users are equivalent to the levels shown by cigarettes, although always lower [2].

2. We don't know exactly how much nicotine is in ecig vapor, so at this time it is absolutely impossible to provide any numerical basis for a comparison between the amounts of nicotine delivered by a cigarette and by an ecig in the smoke vs the vapor. However you can measure the blood plasma nicotine level, of course.

To explain: a tobacco cigarette contains on average about 18mg of nicotine, and the smoke from it after combustion of the vegetable matter contains on average 1 mg of nicotine. However these numbers are falling and since the figures above are for 5 years ago, we can probably reduce those figures by 25% for an accurate average for today's cigarettes.

E-Liquid contains (for argument's sake) 18mg of nicotine per 1 ml of liquid, assuming we are talking about medium-strength nic liquid of 18mg/ml or 1.8%. After conversion to vapor we have no idea how much nic is in the mist as this has never been accurately measured in a published clinical study or lab test, or repeated in other trials. We have some good clues but they are not to be considered as 'proof' or even as repeatable results, since no proper analyses have been done. Our clues range from 10% of the nic as compared with smoke; and 50% of the nic in the liquid being transferred into the vapor.

If anyone says that they know how much nicotine is in vapor (i.e. the amount of nicotine in mg per litre volume of vapor, or alternatively the amount measured per 12 minute vaping session) - then please send me the link, as it is the single most useful piece of info that we need but currently don't have.

There is no basis for any kind of numerical comparison of the amount of nicotine in cigarettes and vaping. How much nic is in the liquid is completely irrelevant. There is a massive amount of confusion about this but the simple answer is: you can't compare nic strengths in cigarettes and vaping.


---------------------------------
Update Jan 2014
This post was correct at the time. We now know (from the Goniewicz series of lab tests as well as those of our expert chemists on ECF) that an average of 50% of the nicotine in e-liquid is transferred to the vapor although this is only confirmed for mini ecigs. Therefore we can now calculate that if 1ml of liquid at 18mg strength is consumed, the vapor produced contains about 9mg of nicotine. This can vary with the efficiency of the device.

---------------------------------



[1] In other words a beginner, using a mini, with low-strength nic liquid, with no advice or support, can be expected to show zero or very little nicotine in the blood; but an expert with their own hardware will show significant quantities (i.e. >10ng/ml) in the blood. It demonstrates that several factors affect how much nicotine is supplied. Multiple clinical trials have shown this, e.g. 'Eissenberg1', 'Eissenberg 2'. His first trial showed zero nic delivered; but, after being told where he went wrong here on ECF (Dr E. is a member here), he then ran it again and got the opposite result. There are at least ten clinical studies now that clearly demonstrate: (a) that an ecig cannot be used in the same way as a tobacco cigarette, and (b) that if a clinical trial is run without expert advice from an experienced ecig user, the results are likely to be gibberish.

[2] Multiple blood tests show that levels higher than 15ng/ml can be achieved when using an e-cigarette. A 'lights' smoker might register 10ng/ml in a blood nic test. Ecig users have registered over 15ng/ml. There seems to be a pattern in that expert ecig users chain-vaping with high-strength e-liquid and very satisfied with the result will show blood nic levels in the 15ng range, as against a likely range of at least 10ng higher when using their preferred tobacco product. In other words they are satisfied, with less nic showing in the blood compared to smoking.

At this point it looks as if vapers get the same satisfaction as smokers but with around a 40% lower plasma nic level.

 

[Xaiver]

@Roly
Your knowledge on the subject far outweighs my own, I hadn't stumbled across most of the information that you posted here, thank you. (How do you remember all of that, anyhow? I have trouble remembering what I had for breakfast.)

My only issue with this thread (hence why I posted an Internal) was that WeaponX's reply says that we get more Nic from vaping than from analogs. The majority of both of our posts reads pretty much the same, except for that one line. I wanted to make sure that the OP got clear answers that didn't conflict.

Thanks Roly,
-X

 

[rolygate]

Blood plasma nicotine tests clearly show that, for those persons tested at any rate, less nicotine is delivered to the bloodstream than can be expected for 'equivalent' cigarette smoking.

However, it is also clear from many individual reports that some people can consume sufficient nicotine from vaping that they receive direct confirmation of over-consumption (or OD if you like) - and this is clear when no such results from excessive smoking were remembered. In fact it is hard to find anyone who can attest to having experienced nicotine OD from smoking.

I have no idea how to reconcile these two apparently conflicting facts:

- We know that vaping delivers less nicotine because blood measurements tell us this. It is also confirmed by cotinine tests. Even so, most vapers are satisfied with the result.
- People can vape themselves silly when they have never been able to do that smoking, even when chain smoking. Obvious signs of over-consumption are clearly present.

They are both facts, and seem mutually irreconcilable. Perhaps there is some difference in effect for nicotine received from smoking and vaping, when both are at the same level as measured in the blood.

Since it is clearly possible to over-consume nicotine when vaping, this needs to be taken into account when over-indulging, especially if driving or if there is a serious underlying medical condition such as a cardiac issue. For most people, overdoing the nic is about as serious as overdoing it with coffee: unpleasant for a while but it soon wears off.

 

[rolygate]

1. I ordered a 20ml bottle of "Gold and Silver" with a 24mg strength.. By my calculations 1ml of the liquid works out to be 0.83mg of nicotine (20/24). Is this correct?

Each ml of liquid contains 24mg of nicotine as it is of 2.4% strength and '24mg strength' means 24mg/ml. A 20ml bottle contains 20 x 24mg in total, 480mg, so don't drink it.

Each of my analogue cigarettes have 0.7mg of nicotine. I smoke 20 a day and so consume a total of 14mg per day.

I would be very grateful if someone could breakdown how much nicotine is consumed from E liquid against my analogue baseline.

This is impossible to do because we don't know how much nicotine is in vapor. We don't know what percentage of the nicotine in liquid is transferred into the vapor (it cannot be all of it). You can use 50% as a guesstimate but it is purely a guess and may be proved utterly wrong. Of the various ad hoc tests that have been carried out, often as a by-product of some other research, most reported a nicotine transfer into the vapor of between 45% and 55% of that originally present in the liquid.

On this basis, if you consume 3ml of 24mg liquid a day, you are consuming 3 x 24 / 2 = 36mg of nic.

3ml is what we believe is approximately 'equivalent' to 20 cigarettes as 1 cig is about 'equal to' 3.5 drops, and there are about 22 drops per ml, so 3 x 22 / 3.5 = 19.

Once again, this is just a guess. In addition, there is no reason to suppose that the effect of nicotine derived from a cigarette is the same as that derived from an ecig; in fact there are reasons to think it is different.

2. It's obvious after a few vapes/pulls that you don't use it like you would a cigarette. I'm a little confused however after reading some other threads on this forum. Should I inhale? Am I supposed to just press the button and wait 5 seconds, then hold the vape in my mouth for a few more seconds then exhale?

Please read this tute on how to 'inhale' (you don't actually inhale straight off):
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/337017-inhalation-technique-e-cigarette.html

3. Lastly, how do the voltage settings on the Ecigs effect the experience (in general)? I'm not sure if this is purely subjective and to the users preference or whether there is more to it that I'm not understanding..

The simplest way to explain higher voltage is that you get more vapor. There is more to it than that, but that's the basic reason it's done. Along with more vapor you would definitely get more hit, whatever way you want to measure that. As individual taste is so different, and there are so many variants of heads, liquid, and nicotine strength, you can virtually guarantee that many different results are obtained. Just set things up to suit your own taste, someone else might not like your settings. You might not either, in 3 month's time.

Update Dec 2013
We now know from the series of Goniewicz studies that e-cigarette nicotine transfer does average around 50% for mini ecigs: about half the nicotine in the e-liquid is transferred to the vapor. A factor of 0.5 can now be applied with confidence as it is repeatedly demonstrated.

Some devices work better, some are far worse (the range demonstrated in 'Goniewicz 2' varied between 10% and 80%). Larger devices than the minis tested will probably be more efficient than the average mini.