Easier to Quit Vaping then Smokeing

[Scy123]

I got really sick yesterday from chain vaping and decided to try quitting again.

This is my second attempt, My first attempt lasted 2 weeks and it was very easy to quit. I only started again cause I had nothing to do, not because I was addicted.

Anyone else find that it is very easy to quit vaping? I'm on my second day and I find my cravings a lot easier to control then when I was smoking.

 

[DaveP]

I've not tried to quit vaping, but I had to go for a day without vaping once. It was easy.

Cutting your nic level in half permanently isn't a big deal.

 

[Scy123]

I tried vaping low nic stuff before and didn't like it. Rather get off it.

 

[Spencer87]

Yea... each time I went back to smoking, it was because I had nothing to do, not because I was addicted.

 

[Funk Dracula]

Use of Than and Then

 

[Scy123]

I knew that! spelled smoking wrong too

 

[Funk Dracula]

I knew that! spelled smoking wrong too

Meh, spelling is totally forgivable.

It's just a friendly reminder of how crazy the English language is. One letter, similar or same pronunciation depending on your spoken accent, two completely different meanings. I really feel bad for the people around the world who have to learn English as a second language, because it's crazy.

For some reason my autocorrect always replaces "you're" over "your" and it pisses me off big time.

Cheers

 

[NealBJr]

B Gld tha english lnguage hsnt trnd into txt speek. LOL. ths is whr the futre of englsh is goin.

Don't think so? Just text my teenage son.

 

[Mowgli]

I dropped from 18mg to 12mg with no problem.
I've been considering taking a day off from vaping but I'm still too chicken.... to try it.

It's just a friendly reminder of how crazy the English language is. One letter, similar or same pronunciation depending on your spoken accent, two completely different meanings. I really feel bad for the people around the world who have to learn English as a second language, because it's crazy.

I snagged this from ECF about 16 months ago:


ENGLISH IS TOUGH STUFF
======================

Dearest creature in creation,
Study English pronunciation.
I will teach you in my verse
Sounds like corpse, corps, horse, and worse.
I will keep you, Suzy, busy,
Make your head with heat grow dizzy.
Tear in eye, your dress will tear.
So shall I! Oh hear my prayer.

Just compare heart, beard, and heard,
Dies and diet, lord and word,
Sword and sward, retain and Britain.
(Mind the latter, how it's written.)
Now I surely will not plague you
With such words as plaque and ague.
But be careful how you speak:
Say break and steak, but bleak and streak;
Cloven, oven, how and low,
Script, receipt, show, poem, and toe.

Hear me say, devoid of trickery,
Daughter, laughter, and Terpsichore,
Typhoid, measles, topsails, aisles,
Exiles, similes, and reviles;
Scholar, vicar, and cigar,
Solar, mica, war and far;
One, anemone, Balmoral,
Kitchen, lichen, laundry, laurel;
Gertrude, German, wind and mind,
Scene, Melpomene, mankind.

Billet does not rhyme with ballet,
Bouquet, wallet, mallet, chalet.
Blood and flood are not like food,
Nor is mould like should and would.
Viscous, viscount, load and broad,
Toward, to forward, to reward.
And your pronunciation's OK
When you correctly say croquet,
Rounded, wounded, grieve and sieve,
Friend and fiend, alive and live.

Ivy, privy, famous; clamour
And enamour rhyme with hammer.
River, rival, tomb, bomb, comb,
Doll and roll and some and home.
Stranger does not rhyme with anger,
Neither does devour with clangour.
Souls but foul, haunt but aunt,
Font, front, wont, want, grand, and grant,
Shoes, goes, does. Now first say finger,
And then singer, ginger, linger,
Real, zeal, mauve, gauze, gouge and gauge,
Marriage, foliage, mirage, and age.

Query does not rhyme with very,
Nor does fury sound like bury.
Dost, lost, post and doth, cloth, loth.
Job, nob, bosom, transom, oath.
Though the differences seem little,
We say actual but victual.
Refer does not rhyme with deafer.
Foeffer does, and zephyr, heifer.
Mint, pint, senate and sedate;
Dull, bull, and George ate late.
Scenic, Arabic, Pacific,
Science, conscience, scientific.

Liberty, library, heave and heaven,
Rachel, ache, moustache, eleven.
We say hallowed, but allowed,
People, leopard, towed, but vowed.
Mark the differences, moreover,
Between mover, cover, clover;
Leeches, breeches, wise, precise,
Chalice, but police and lice;
Camel, constable, unstable,
Principle, disciple, label.

Petal, panel, and canal,
Wait, surprise, plait, promise, pal.
Worm and storm, chaise, chaos, chair,
Senator, spectator, mayor.
Tour, but our and succour, four.
Gas, alas, and Arkansas.
Sea, idea, Korea, area,
Psalm, Maria, but malaria.
Youth, south, southern, cleanse and clean.
Doctrine, turpentine, marine.

Compare alien with Italian,
Dandelion and battalion.
Sally with ally, yea, ye,
Eye, I, ay, aye, whey, and key.
Say aver, but ever, fever,
Neither, leisure, skein, deceiver.
Heron, granary, canary.
Crevice and device and aerie.

Face, but preface, not efface.
Phlegm, phlegmatic, ..., glass, bass.
Large, but target, gin, give, verging,
Ought, out, joust and scour, scourging.
Ear, but earn and wear and tear
Do not rhyme with here but ere.
Seven is right, but so is even,
Hyphen, roughen, nephew Stephen,
Monkey, donkey, Turk and jerk,
Ask, grasp, wasp, and cork and work.

Pronunciation -- think of Psyche!
Is a paling stout and spikey?
Won't it make you lose your wits,
Writing groats and saying grits?
It's a dark abyss or tunnel:
Strewn with stones, stowed, solace, gunwale,
Islington and Isle of Wight,
Housewife, verdict and indict.

Finally, which rhymes with enough --
Though, through, plough, or dough, or cough?
Hiccough has the sound of cup.
My advice is to give up!!!

-- Author Unknown

 

[Oliver]

I got really sick yesterday from chain vaping and decided to try quitting again.

This is my second attempt, My first attempt lasted 2 weeks and it was very easy to quit. I only started again cause I had nothing to do, not because I was addicted.

Anyone else find that it is very easy to quit vaping? I'm on my second day and I find my cravings a lot easier to control then when I was smoking.

There's a very prominent researcher in the UK (whose name I can't share) who is extremely interested in this, and is beginning to theorize (from a neurological perspective) why this might be happening.

The point being, you're not alone - lots of people are reporting that they feel much less dependent on vaping than they did on smoking. If this can be shown to be a real and widespread phenomena, this will be yet another massive plus point for vaping!

 

[Funk Dracula]

I snagged this from ECF about 16 months ago:


ENGLISH IS TOUGH STUFF
======================

Dearest creature in creation,
Study English pronunciation.
I will teach you in my verse
Sounds like corpse, corps, horse, and worse.
I will keep you, Suzy, busy,
Make your head with heat grow dizzy.
Tear in eye, your dress will tear.
So shall I! Oh hear my prayer.

Just compare heart, beard, and heard,
Dies and diet, lord and word,
Sword and sward, retain and Britain.
(Mind the latter, how it's written.)
Now I surely will not plague you
With such words as plaque and ague.
But be careful how you speak:
Say break and steak, but bleak and streak;
Cloven, oven, how and low,
Script, receipt, show, poem, and toe.

Hear me say, devoid of trickery,
Daughter, laughter, and Terpsichore,
Typhoid, measles, topsails, aisles,
Exiles, similes, and reviles;
Scholar, vicar, and cigar,
Solar, mica, war and far;
One, anemone, Balmoral,
Kitchen, lichen, laundry, laurel;
Gertrude, German, wind and mind,
Scene, Melpomene, mankind.

Billet does not rhyme with ballet,
Bouquet, wallet, mallet, chalet.
Blood and flood are not like food,
Nor is mould like should and would.
Viscous, viscount, load and broad,
Toward, to forward, to reward.
And your pronunciation's OK
When you correctly say croquet,
Rounded, wounded, grieve and sieve,
Friend and fiend, alive and live.

Ivy, privy, famous; clamour
And enamour rhyme with hammer.
River, rival, tomb, bomb, comb,
Doll and roll and some and home.
Stranger does not rhyme with anger,
Neither does devour with clangour.
Souls but foul, haunt but aunt,
Font, front, wont, want, grand, and grant,
Shoes, goes, does. Now first say finger,
And then singer, ginger, linger,
Real, zeal, mauve, gauze, gouge and gauge,
Marriage, foliage, mirage, and age.

Query does not rhyme with very,
Nor does fury sound like bury.
Dost, lost, post and doth, cloth, loth.
Job, nob, bosom, transom, oath.
Though the differences seem little,
We say actual but victual.
Refer does not rhyme with deafer.
Foeffer does, and zephyr, heifer.
Mint, pint, senate and sedate;
Dull, bull, and George ate late.
Scenic, Arabic, Pacific,
Science, conscience, scientific.

Liberty, library, heave and heaven,
Rachel, ache, moustache, eleven.
We say hallowed, but allowed,
People, leopard, towed, but vowed.
Mark the differences, moreover,
Between mover, cover, clover;
Leeches, breeches, wise, precise,
Chalice, but police and lice;
Camel, constable, unstable,
Principle, disciple, label.

Petal, panel, and canal,
Wait, surprise, plait, promise, pal.
Worm and storm, chaise, chaos, chair,
Senator, spectator, mayor.
Tour, but our and succour, four.
Gas, alas, and Arkansas.
Sea, idea, Korea, area,
Psalm, Maria, but malaria.
Youth, south, southern, cleanse and clean.
Doctrine, turpentine, marine.

Compare alien with Italian,
Dandelion and battalion.
Sally with ally, yea, ye,
Eye, I, ay, aye, whey, and key.
Say aver, but ever, fever,
Neither, leisure, skein, deceiver.
Heron, granary, canary.
Crevice and device and aerie.

Face, but preface, not efface.
Phlegm, phlegmatic, ..., glass, bass.
Large, but target, gin, give, verging,
Ought, out, joust and scour, scourging.
Ear, but earn and wear and tear
Do not rhyme with here but ere.
Seven is right, but so is even,
Hyphen, roughen, nephew Stephen,
Monkey, donkey, Turk and jerk,
Ask, grasp, wasp, and cork and work.

Pronunciation -- think of Psyche!
Is a paling stout and spikey?
Won't it make you lose your wits,
Writing groats and saying grits?
It's a dark abyss or tunnel:
Strewn with stones, stowed, solace, gunwale,
Islington and Isle of Wight,
Housewife, verdict and indict.

Finally, which rhymes with enough --
Though, through, plough, or dough, or cough?
Hiccough has the sound of cup.
My advice is to give up!!!

-- Author Unknown

And there you have it. That's brilliant.

There's a very prominent researcher in the UK (whose name I can't share) who is extremely interested in this, and is beginning to theorize (from a neurological perspective) why this might be happening.


The point being, you're not alone - lots of people are reporting that they feel much less dependent on vaping than they did on smoking. If this can be shown to be a real and widespread phenomena, this will be yet another massive plus point for vaping!

I think it's safe to assume the vast majority of vapers, including myself, have naturally, logically, and inevitably come to the conclusion that it must have been just about everything but the nicotine in cigarette smoke that was addicting.

Don't get me wrong, I still love and crave my nicotine, but it's clearly not the overwhelming behavior affecting craving that a cigarette was. In other words, it is no longer a harmful addiction.

Cheers

 

[twgbonehead]

I think it's safe to assume the vast majority of vapers, including myself, have naturally, logically, and inevitably come to the conclusion that it must have been just about everything but the nicotine in cigarette smoke that was addicting.

Don't get me wrong, I still love and crave my nicotine, but it's clearly not the overwhelming behavior affecting craving that a cigarette was. In other words, it is no longer a harmful addiction.

Cheers

I agree, and would even go a bit further.
Cigarettes are very addictive on many levels. I believe the nicotine is just one factor, and not that major a factor.

Ammonia and other chemicals are added to ciggs because they increase the speed of nic absorption. This is one reason why
you can get a strong "rush" on the first cig of the day, but it's much harder to do with an e-cigg.

There are also other chemicals (MAOI's, for example) which occur naturally in tobacco, but whose levels are carefully manipulated
by the cig manufacturers. These add to the chemical dependence.

There is the "oral fixation" - you get used to having something in your mouth. One reason I think the e-cig is so successful is that it's
one of the few NRT's that duplicate this sensation.

Finally, there is the social/habitual aspect. You use a cig to take a break from work, to chat with the other smokers, and in general just to
clear your head. (At work, when I used to go out for a smoke, I would say "I'm going out for a breath of fresh air" which was true in at least one sense!)

E-cigs provide most of these characteristics, with the exception of the "dependency-enhancing" chemicals (and of course, without the crap that's really bad for you).

 

[Oliver]

I'd probably say that nicotine is a necessary but not sufficient factor in tobacco addiction.

I'd probably say further that there's likely to be a HUGE range of individual differences in the propensity to become dependent, and the ability to cease nicotine/tobacco.

But, there's definitely an interesting story going on, and it's great to see renewed interest from academic circles. Previously, it seemed like the door was shut - case closed, but vaping seems to have sparked something.

 

[MikenGA]

...lots of people are reporting that they feel much less dependent on vaping than they did on smoking.

Add MY NAME to that list!

When my roomie became extremely ill last year, I spent nearly 3 months with him at the hospital. Unable to conveniently vape, I simply did without for most of the time, and it was no problem at all. Likewise, when I was recently hospitalized in May, vaping never entered my mind until I got home.

I assure you, it would NOT have been the same if I were still smoking. I would have been sneaking outside, or smokin' in the restroom after only a few hours.

The 'addiction' to smoking - IMHO - is something OTHER than nicotine. Nicotine alone does NOT appear to be as addictive as my morning coffee.

There's definitely more to the story of addiction where nicotine is concerned.


I look forward to reading some of the new research...if anybody is ever allowed to release it to the public.

 

[KiMB00P]

I only vape 6mg and I have gone whole days without vaping. I think it's pretty easy too once you get down to the lower nic levels.

 

[navigator2011]

I think I read somewhere that whenever you mix a stimulant with a depressant that both act quickly, it will be more addictive than either taken alone. In the case of smoking, the nicotine is a quick acting stimulant while the carbon monoxide is a depressant. In addition, ammonia technology has been used to make the nicotine operate even faster. Super fast relief from nicotine withdrawal coupled with the dulling effects of the carbon monoxide makes smoking seem relaxing and satisfying in a way that vaping straight nicotine cannot mimic. Struggling vapers, like me, must overcome the need to be almost instantly relaxed and satisfied by smoking nicotine/ammonia/carbon monoxide, and learn to be happy with straight nicotine that doesn't taste horrible.

 

[DaveP]

I'd probably say that nicotine is a necessary but not sufficient factor in tobacco addiction.

I'd probably say further that there's likely to be a HUGE range of individual differences in the propensity to become dependent, and the ability to cease nicotine/tobacco.

But, there's definitely an interesting story going on, and it's great to see renewed interest from academic circles. Previously, it seemed like the door was shut - case closed, but vaping seems to have sparked something.

Having established my nic level at 6mg after vaping 24mg and 18mg for years, I find that 6mg is just fine for satisfying the urge. My intent is to find a nic level that will allow me to pass the cotinine test for health insurance coverage. I'm seeing that a non-smoker classification could save me $200 a month and would be well worth the effort.

Can you point us to research that outlines nic intake and cotinine levels? I know that second hand smoke exposure can show up in the cotinine test and for that reason the insurance regs allow certain levels for non-smoker classification.

 

[CabinetGuyScott]

RolyGate is the premier nicotine expert, and he recently offered this post regarding dependency vs addiction, and more.

Note: Here's another article you should read on his website:
Is Nicotine Addictive ?

Worth repeating in this conversation:

Terminology note

We should not perpetuate the propaganda efforts of the commercial and ideological opponents of vaping by using their wording. This method of skewing the debate is primarily seen in their successful attempt to equate smoking with tobacco, and their current attempt to do the same with smoking and nicotine.

What they do is lie prodigiously and repetitively, and eventually everyone (a) believes the lies and (b) starts to repeat their lies for them. It's a win-win...


Smoking vs tobacco
Smoking is reputed to kill 440,000 a year in the US. I'm not going to get into that as I'm not an expert on the epidemiology. It's either right, or an exaggeration - but let's say it's correct, for the sake of argument. Let's agree, for the purpose of this particular position, that smoking kills, and a lot. Given that anti-smokers lie about everything, we cannot automatically assume their stats are right.

Smoking kills, tobacco use doesn't. There is such a huge amount of factual and evidential data from Sweden that a Snus consumer is equivalent to a non-smoker in terms of health outcomes, it cannot be argued. (That is to say, by statistical analysis, if smokers totally quit or switch to Snus, there is no reliably-quantifiable difference in health outcomes.) Individuals are as always exempt from the average because their genetics make them so.

Tobacco users in Sweden have proven (not just supplied some evidence) that tobacco use has no significant health consequences. In fact the exact difference can be measured, and has been, multiple times: long-term Snus consumption causes an average lifespan reduction of between 2 and 10 weeks. A 6 week average lifespan reduction is about the median, from the many large-scale multi-decade studies that have been carried out. A 6-week lifespan reduction is almost certainly less than that attributable to an equivalent consumption volume of coffee, for example.

What they do is to say "tobacco" when the reality is that it's smoking doing the harm. Therefore when discussing the mortality or morbidity resulting from smoking, we should correctly describe it as 'smoking-related' not 'tobacco-related'. It is playing into the hands of the propagandists to say tobacco-related mortality (death rate) when what you actually mean is smoking-related mortality. Tobacco doesn't kill, smoking it does. The same thing applies to tea.


Addiction vs dependence
Modern usage of these terms has become specific. That is to say, where perhaps in the past they meant the same thing, for those in professions that work with the consequences, there is a growing difference in the exact meaning. Another related term is reinforcement.

Reinforcement = the potential of a material or activity to cause repeated consumption or repetition that may lead to dependence. Reinforcement is a critical though not necessarily vital stage of dependence.

Dependence = a need to keep consuming a material or performing an activity that is abnormal by average measurement, but that has no measurable elevation of risk. It may elevate risk but this is unmeasurable in terms of modern urban lifestyles. In other words, it may or may not do harm, but it is difficult or impossible to isolate that from the background noise in modern life (or no one has done so as yet). Coffee is currently seen as a dependence, where applicable; though it looks as if it will soon become fashionable to investigate harm caused by it, if any can be measured.

Addiction = a dependence that has significant risk of harm. Harm may be of many types including physical (and thus to health), economic or social, and in some cases the harms may by implication involve others. So an addiction can be to a harmful drug like her_oin, a harmful drug cocktail and/or delivery system like smoking, a gambling habit (due to the economic harm to the person and/or family); and the social harms inherent in the activity (smokers 'are lepers', gamblers are 'dangerous to know').

So when we discuss nicotine, the most that it can be ascribed in modern usage is a potential for dependence. Addiction is incorrect since no one has ever demonstrated that nicotine (not smoking) has measurable harms. The Snus and NRT data are very clear on this: nicotine consumption has no clinical significance, and in fact they have no statistical significance either (a smaller measure of impact).

Smoking is an addiction, nicotine consumption is a dependence. Nicotine dependence is created by smoking (and possibly by tobacco use other than smoking - this is unclear at this time), but there is certainly no good evidence base showing that it can be created except by tobacco consumption.

There is an interesting question regarding vaping: strictly speaking it is neither, since no one has either demonstrated it to be reinforcing among never-smokers (of course, we must use those unexposed to tobacco for this test), nor to have any risk elevation that might impact health. Some might perhaps assume the worst and regard it as having the potential for a statistically-measurable impact on health outcomes (around a 2% repeatedly-demonstrated effect); although the 'vectors' are not visible at this time (no materials in vapor can be ascribed any toxic potential that would significantly impact health - see Burstyn/Drexel etc.). The likelihood of it having any clinical significance (killing or causing serious disease in more than 3% of participants) seems rather small.

Thus, the pedantically-careful would be correct in describing vaping as a dependence, if only someone could reliably demonstrate it as producing clinically-significant levels of dependence in never-smokers. This also seems rather unlikely, given that there isn't a single clinical trial that reports pure nicotine can create dependence in even a single subject unexposed to tobacco, but multiple clinical trials where large quantities of nicotine were administered to never-smokers (numbering, in total, in the hundreds) for up to 6 months and not a single case of reinforcement never mind dependence was noted.

It is entirely likely that two or three people, somewhere, may become dependent on vaping when they have never been exposed to tobacco first (which certainly does create dependence on nicotine, but that's another story: a story of 9,600 other ingredients, potentiators and synergens). A few out of 10 or 20 million doesn't add up to much. Somehow it doesn't seem likely that vaping will shown as having clinical dependency issues.

I'm not even going to add a disclaimer to this, as the facts are the facts.

 

[GinnyTx]

We've not tried yet, I've weaned down on the nicotine, the oral part is most certainly addictive, I guess I could chew a straw or something like I did when I quit smoking for five years.

Same here, if I ever want to go back to work for a hospital rather than myself, I know that I'd have to go over a week without vaping, or more, the saliva tests seem to be more sensitive than the urine ones but they're less accurate and a buddy of mine did that two weeks before the test stopping smoking and lit up the second she got out of the clinic and damned if they didn't call her back for another urine test *argh* oh well she didn't want to work there anywhoos *lol*

the hair test, you're boned, unless there's a clear line of "I stopped here forever and it's clean from that point" (same for insurance and that's up to the individual company if there's any nicotine there to charge you more, reportedly from fellow RN's)

so ...for now, I'm vaping and I'll be paying for it on the insurance I guess...the goal is to quit, nicotine at least, I see some at the Vape Shop that vape 0mg, they just like to vape.