ECig Bans and Classification Of

[Jman8]

Okay, but um, I haven't quit. I am the vaper in the room who enjoys being a moderate smoker.

And despise being treated like smoking is something to be shamed first, and maintain a closed mind towards.

While I prefer vaping and while I respect vapers who have quit smoking, I wish all people (includes non-vapers, not ECF people) would stop hating on smoking, just cause it is socially permissible to do so. Yet, I'm probably engaging in wishful thinking that has zero chance to change minds, even among those who at one time claimed to enjoy smoking, simply because.

Bans (for adult users) thus far have been mostly, to only, usage bans, and smoking is clearly / undeniably under that ban. I strongly believe vaping should not be, but also believe (less strongly) that smoking ought not to as well.

Though it is clearly TCA that is the issue, and smoking is not singled out in that act. If you have a product that contains nicotine, and/or mimics a product that uses nicotine, and is not FDA approved / BP blessed, then your product will be damned regulated by TCA. But TCA wasn't written by 10 concerned people, nor 100, nor 1000. More like 100 million people, all around us, who think TCA is great legislation and all nicotine products are best dealt with by this legislation. In the meantime, that 100 million will be readily available for discussions and proposed legislation in local / state governments that seek to do things to those same products that TCA chose not to get into, i.e. limiting use and taxing up the wazoo.

 

[rothenbj]

jman, it's really not about hating smoking anymore, it's about hating smokers. I was volunteering at a thrift store about 5 years ago. I had gone out for a smoke and saw a women battling with getting it into her car. I went over to help her, she saw my cigarette and told me no thanks. I quickly got rid of my cigarette and again volunteered to help, she gave me a nasty look and said she'd handle it herself. I was like a leper in her eyes. As I walked away I had to chuckle at her struggle and the fact that she was buying someone else's furniture, perhaps even another leper.

The worst in many cases are ex-smokers too, even here.

 

[kristin]

Jman, if you haven't switched then you haven't "quit," but you've "reduced." So, I wasn't talking about people who still smoke. HOWEVER, every time you vape instead of smoke you are still reducing health risks and that should not be discounted by the ANTZ either. That's another reason why we don't want people defining for us how we are supposed to use e-cigs. For some it's quitting smoking. For some it's reducing smoking and for others it's weaning off nicotine. The ANTZ shouldn't tell us what we "need" to do and neither should we (as vapers) hold other vapers accountable for what we want for ourselves.

That's why its not as simple as switch or quit. I do use the word "switched" in certain discussions - those that insist that quitting smoking must involve complete abstinence from tobacco and nicotine. But the key point is reducing or eliminating smoke exposure and not letting the ANTZ get away with confusing the publc that nicotine and tobacco use is no different than smoking. Like saying tobacco kills 440,000 people a year when its not tobacco alone but SMOKING tobacco. By simply changing one word, the public believes all tobacco use is as hazardous as smoking tobacco. And because we all supposedly only use tobacco for nicotine, all nicotine use should be discouraged. This is a deliberate plan to vilify nicotine/tobacco and its consumers. (I also prefer "consumer" over "user" for obvious reasons. "User" is purposely used by ANTZ to make us synonymous with other "pathetic addicts.")

 

[rothenbj]

If you haven't seen the video from this thread you should- http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo.../517178-irish-tv-rte-prime-time-coverage.html


Clive Bates is brilliant. He has two ANTZ, feeding all the typical stuff, and he has all the right answers. The female from one of the alphabets contended that as long as you were dual using you were just as much in danger. The propaganda that it doesn't matter how many, even one is bad, ie. quit or die. Clive quickly put that notion down and described that individual need to do what works for them, the journey. It was one heck of a show and I wish we could get that type of dialog on prime time in the US.

 

[OCD]

Thats the thing with me, I cannot say quit because if the ANTZ prevail and all ecigs are gone tomorrow I will likely be buying a pack of Marboros. I dont understand how folks cannot understand this the way I do but thats the way my own brain works. When you quit something that means you will never do that again, if you have the will to say that at this point in your "depature" from smoking you will never smoke again regardless of what fall upon you then I applaud you, you are one of the few who have broken the addiction and are able to walk away.

For the vast majority of us though we have a habit, this is a simple habit that has a few key components. Nicotine, something to do with the hands and a exhale that tells us we did it right.

Simple, as simple as that. For many the nicotine can be mitigated if they so choose at a pace that fits their liking. For others it is a simple matter of drinking caffeinated or non, it is up to you.

Take the semantics any way you like if you want to create division, this is easy to do in any discussion but we should not be heading that way.This isnt a battle to be won or lost between the two of us on whether you like or dislike the usage of quitting or pretending to smoke. In the end it boils down to community standing together to protect a basic right to pattern their behavior in a way that is less destructive than the current legal means to do the same.

 

[Julie W]

I
All words have connotations, negative or positive, and a clever debater can use them to obscure your point ...
O.T.
This so true...& why I question the continued use of the words 'e-cig'
the sooner we move away from the word cig & all it's connotations the better.
I never use it now.I refer to it as "my vaper"
Given what most of us use,don't remotely resemble a cigarette,why do we insist on giving it publicity.?

 

[jpargana]

Navy, the thing is none of those things can replicate the habit without the harm. The key word here is quit, I dont feel as vapers that we quit anything we simply take away the harm of many chemicals that have been proven to be dangerous to us. I call it switching, I never quit the old habit I just switched it for something that I feel is better for me, I call it pretending to smoke and it is about as comparable to smoking as the candy cigarettes I had as a kid, the only thing different is I exhale a vapor that looks like smoke. Hell if they could have done that then it would have been the biggest product on the market.

(...)

Careful now... that's exacly what ANTZ's belive too... "We have not really quit", and "it renormalizes smoking (nevermind that a mod resembles more of a flashlight than a cigarette)...


OK. Look at it this way:

I have not smoked a cigarette for the past five years. Thanks to the e-cig. Smoke was ours (and our doctors) main concern.

Now, picture this: a guy who used to spend his days mostly wasted, because he used to drink way too much beer.

For five years in a row, he has been sober. That's because once upon a time, he tried a non-alchoolic beer, liked it, and never looked back.

I believe it's fair to say that this guy can claim, with all honesty, that he hasn't been drinking for the past five years. His doctor will congratulate him. His family will feel happy for him. His fight was not against the 'glass to mouth' behaviour. His fight was not against the malt contained in beer. None of that was destroying his life, his career and his family. Nevermind that NA beer mimics regular beer, or that one is actually only a substitute for the other. If this guy had not a drop of alchool in the past five years, it is both unfair and inaccurate to state "That guy is still a drunkard, because he still drinks that non-alchoolic, 'beer-alike' thing"...

Of course, any rabid prohibitionist can state exactly that. Too bad, because it is an opinion based on prejudice, and not an objective one.

The guy is not supposed to feel like he has failed, or like he has been cheating all this time, or that he has not actually quit his drinking problem... because he has!! That kind of preconceived, illogical opinions simply do not count for this guy's achievement.

Now, read again, changing 'prohibitionist' with 'ANTZ', 'alchool' with 'tobacco smoke', 'regular beer' with 'cigarettes', and so forth... you'll see where I'm headed for...

It makes no sense calling him an alchoolic just because he uses some 'beer-alike', non-alchoolic beverage. Likewise, it also makes no sense being called a smoker when you are using a smokeless alternative to tobacco cigarettes. One that, in most cases, does not even resemble any tobacco cigarette, cigar, or pipe...

 

[Jman8]

Thats the thing with me, I cannot say quit because if the ANTZ prevail and all ecigs are gone tomorrow I will likely be buying a pack of Marboros.

Last 9 words there carry a lot of weight.

IMO, the 5 words before that carry far more weight. eCigs will be around for the foreseeable future, guaranteed. Might have to go to some black market to get them, but they WILL be around.

IMO, this discussion is as simple as that.

 

[MTFogger]

Wonder how many ANTZ preach anti smoking while sipping on their bourbon? Or Mountain dew. Soda btw from what I have read causes approximately 200,000 deaths a year from diseases similar to smoking.

 

[OCD]

Julie, we use a similar term "Vape" I agree tying cig in was an unfortunate beginning.

 

[440BB]

Stopped

"I stopped smoking" says it simply and accurately.

"and this is what helped me do it!" is a good follow up.

 

[DC2]

Thats the thing with me, I cannot say quit because if the ANTZ prevail and all ecigs are gone tomorrow I will likely be buying a pack of Marboros.

I would say you quit smoking, buy haven't quit using nicotine.
And as such, you might be driven back to smoking if they take away your ecig.

 

[rothenbj]

jpargana, that's a really good analogy because a glass of it really looks like you're drinking real beer. They'll still use the "Well you're still addicted to nicotine" argument, but there's really little evidence of any more health risk than consuming caffeine.

 

[Navy20]

Alot of interesting discussion . . . Alot to be learned. No doubt this topic is not over. Perhaps it is the terminology used. Does the term "e-cigarette" conjure up evil?
I QUIT smoking cigarettes because they were killing me. Sure, it took 45 years for me to figure that out but psychologically, I wasn't prepared to give the cigarette up. I enjoyed the smell of burning tobacco and still do.
I SWITCHED to the e-cigarette and have not had a "real" cigarette for 9 months now. I do not miss them at all.
The ACTIONS are similar . . . I still inhale, I still exhale.
However . . . My e-cigarette is not burning.
I Inhale 5 ingredients: (1) PG, (2) VG, (3) Nicotine, (4) Flavoring and (5) Water
Not 4000 chemicals, most of which can't pronounce let alone know what their purpose is.

I will not use my e-cigarette in an area designated as non-smoking out of respect.

I have not tried an eLiquid without nicotine yet . . . perhaps I should. Just to find out for myself, if there is an actual difference to my mindset. As I enjoyed smoking, I made the choice to vape and in turn find that vaping is a better alternative and just as enjoyable.

I have alot to learn about this issue.
I know for myself, and speaking for me alone, I feel much better, breathe much easier, since I Quit smoking and Switched to vaping.

I would hope that those so opposed to this technology (e-cigarettes), truly learn the truth about these products before jumping on their soap boxes and preaching demonic sermons about them.

I QUIT SMOKING . . . I will QUIT VAPING when Federal and/or State Authorities confiscate my vaping supplies from my home. May That Be Never

 

[rothenbj]

Navy, I agree with everything you said, including still liking the smell of cigarettes. Well, there is an exception. I went to a party last year in a very big, almost commercial size garage where nearly everyone was a smoker. The smoke was so dense I lasted less than an hour. Otherwise, smoke 'em if you got 'em.

 

[Navy20]

rothenbj, when I said I like the smell of burning tobacco, I didn't mean to the point of no return, but I believe you know what I meant. The smell of an ashtray makes me sick, I now know what I could not have known when I smoked.
I will never bash a smoker for smoking, but, if I can, I will encourage a smoker to quit and give e-cigs a run for their money.
Smokers, Vapers, and Non-Smokers are invited and welcome to my home. If you vape, please do so inside . . . if you smoke, please do so outside, and oh by the way, field strip the damn cigarette when you are done and put the filter in the trash . . . Not My Yard . . . Thank You.

 

[Navy20]

Okay, maybe I am going a little overboard on this issue but . . . why litter my yard, I wouldn't throw my e-cig in yours.

 

[kristin]

Another analogy:

Like smoking, being very overweight is considered a significant health risk. So, say I was 100 pounds (45 kg) overweight and I eat chocolate ice cream every day. I start exercising and I lose the 100 pounds, but I didn't quit eating ice cream.

Have I "not really quit" being overweight because I'm still eating ice cream?

The point is, it wasn't the habit of eating ice cream that was the health risk, but my being overweight that was the health risk. If I can continue the habit, but quit being overweight, continuing the ice cream habit is inconsequential.

If someone can keep the smoking habit, without actually inhaling smoke, the habit itself is inconsequential. UNLESS, of course, the ANTZ deny us access to the alternative.

Which is why Tobacco Harm Reduction is a completely different concept from abstinence. In the absence of an alternative, 97% of smokers would just keep smoking. They wouldn't be abstinent. Saying "I'd go back to smoking without e-cigs, so I haven't really quit" is exactly the point of THR. Allowing people to keep "the habit" without continuing to expose themselves to smoke. Because, expecting them to quit the habit just hasn't been working. That is why we need "public health" to focus on the fact that vapers HAVE quit smoking, not worry about whether or not they quit the habit/behavior and just make sure that smoking alternatives remain affordable, effective and available for people who otherwise would still be smoking.