Efficiency

[sbmqcy]

I hope this is the right place to post this, but I've been trying to find out what is the most liquid-efficient vaping method? Is it vivi-type top coils, is it bccs like Protanks, is it cartos or carto tanks, or is dripping the most efficient?

I would think dripping, but since I've never done it, I don't know. I imagine that specific hardware plays a big role here, but I'm curious if there is a general consensus.


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[OlDogNewTricks]

If you are talking about using the least amount of liquid possible, you will sacrifice vapor and probably flavor. DIY would be a more cost effective option and you could make what you want to vape. If you are talking about 'stealth' vaping, think small and low power.

 

[Rickajho]

I'm not sure where you are going with this question either. Are you asking "What device is most effective at turning liquid into vapor?" or "What device wastes the least amount of liquid?" Two very different questions.

 

[AttyPops]

I think dripping IF IF IF whatever you drip into doesn't leak and doesn't take huge # of drips. Like a standard atomizer. Only takes 3 drops to "fill" so that's all you really waste if it fries.

I guess another question is....how expensive is your juice? Have you seen the DIY section?

 

[sbmqcy]

I'm not sure where you are going with this question either. Are you asking "What device is most effective at turning liquid into vapor?" or "What device wastes the least amount of liquid?" Two very different questions.

I wasting about wasting the least amount of liquid, but you make an excellent point--my real question is how do I stretch my liquid the farthest, while maintaining a quality vape. So either question might give me an answer.


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[sbmqcy]

I think dripping IF IF IF whatever you drip into doesn't leak and doesn't take huge # of drips. Like a standard atomizer. Only takes 3 drops to "fill" so that's all you really waste if it fries.

I guess another question is....how expensive is your juice? Have you seen the DIY section?

I buy pretty expensive juice. My dad diy's zero nic juice, but I'm not sure I'm ready for that time commitment for my own tastes. 2 young kids. So instead, I'm trying to figure out the best way to stretch my liquid.


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[Fizzpop]

I'd say either a bottom dripper or something like a Protank or Davide. I use a Davide mini at work and I Genesis style RBA at home. The Davide sips juice compared to the Genny.

That may not be super helpful, but I can tell you if you are trying to conserve juice, don't use a Genny. They go through juice like crap goes through a pigeon.

 

[ScottP]

...and the correct answer is....it has very little to do with the device or the method. What consumes juice is power/heat.

If you refer to the chart below, the lower you are in the power band, the less juice you will use, but also the less vapor/second will be created. The higher the power you use, you will get more vapor but also consume more juice. The key to juice conservation is to use the least amount of power to get the vape you want. This will most likely be in the lower to middle portion of the bright green area but of course is completely subject to personal tastes and desires.

 

[ScottP]

I'd say either a bottom dripper or something like a Protank or Davide. I use a Davide mini at work and I Genesis style RBA at home. The Davide sips juice compared to the Genny.

That may not be super helpful, but I can tell you if you are trying to conserve juice, don't use a Genny. They go through juice like crap goes through a pigeon.

What Resistance/Voltage do you use with each one? I would wager that you are using either higher voltage or lower resistance on the Genny (thus more power) and thus more liquid consumed. I do not personally have a Genny, but from using multiple top and bottom coil devices I find juice consumption at the same power levels to be nearly identical in all devices I have tried.

 

[sbmqcy]

...and the correct answer is....it has very little to do with the device or the method. What consumes juice is power/heat.

I'm with you here. I suppose, if I was being clear, my question would have been, assuming all resistance and voltage being equal, what devices are the list efficient. I believe that there are differences in juice consumption between a 1.8 ohm cartomizer at 3.7 volts and a 1.8 ohm ribbon coiled dropper with cotton wick at 3.7 volts and a [fill in the blank]. Granted, based on what I read, the vapes might be different, allowing a lower power to be used on a particular setup to get a similar vape, but my question was generated after seeing several mls of bobas disappear in a carto tank without producing the most satisfying vape and without being vaped all that much.

Is there a different question I should be asking?



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[AttyPops]

No, you asked fine. It's just that the degree of complication of all answers is directly proportional to the number of posters squared. I think there's a multiplication factor in there too...something about how new you are and the # of vets posting. But I don't know the exact equation.

 

[AttyPops]

Regarding power (watts) used...yeah, if it wicks well, more watts = more vapor = more juice used per second. But that may be offset by more satisfying vape and so you vape fewer hits per day. So hard to say for sure. Most likely you use more juice that way.

But for all other things being equal. You waste less juice with the small contained dripper like into an atomizer. Maybe some RDA's count too. And tanks (because it's easy to empty the juice).

Then practices...there are people that disassemble dead cartos, remove the filler, and save them. Then they accumulate several and squeeze out the juice with a syringe. lol.

So it depends on your practices.

Tip one tank over while filling it and there goes 3.0 ml. But then again, you can drop or lose a dripper bottle if dripping too.

I guess a lot of it depends on you. Your vaping. Your wattage. Your frugality. Your experience.

 

[ScottP]

I'm with you here. I suppose, if I was being clear, my question would have been, assuming all resistance and voltage being equal, what devices are the list efficient. I believe that there are differences in juice consumption between a 1.8 ohm cartomizer at 3.7 volts and a 1.8 ohm ribbon coiled dropper with cotton wick at 3.7 volts and a [fill in the blank]. Granted, based on what I read, the vapes might be different, allowing a lower power to be used on a particular setup to get a similar vape, but my question was generated after seeing several mls of bobas disappear in a carto tank without producing the most satisfying vape and without being vaped all that much.

Is there a different question I should be asking?

I really think any difference between a 1.8ohm carto and 1.8ohm ribbon coil would still only lie in the temperature difference between the way those two particular wires heat up. It IS true that different wires (Kanthal A-1, Kanthal A, Kanthal D, Nichrom 60, Nichrome 80, and the various ribbon wires) heat up to different temps and at different rates at the same resistance and at the same power levels would consume juice slightly different based on the heat generated.

Again juice can only be turned to vapor at a rate based on the heat applied. Whether the juice is fed to that heat from the top, from the bottom, or the side seems totally irrelevant to me. The ONLY other possible difference I can see MIGHT be with the ability of a wicking material to deliver juice to the coil/heat source. So there may be a difference between using cotton vs silica vs mesh, which I don't think anyone has studied from a conservation perspective, but again I cannot see the device itself playing any significant part of juice consumption.

 

[Rickajho]

Ok, it's a pragmatic question.

Least efficient - most wasteful - in my book would be cartos. Every so often someone will pop up saying all their cartos last for 6 weeks or more. The average reality is more like 6 days - tops. Once the carto stops performing you have to go through all sorts of "fun" removing the liquids and transferring it to a new carto and every step in that process involves losing liquid.

Dripping attys are a good choice. How much liquid you run through there is gonna depend on what build you use. Standard 510, 306 or 901 attys will blow through the least amount of liquid. But if you must, must build a SLR quad coil anything you aren't allowed to ask questions about where all your liquids are disappearing to.

Possibly one of the more efficient devices for your purposes is a Kanger bottom coil clearo anything. Even when cleaning, they have minimal wicking to waste any liquid. And they are very efficient at turning that liquid into a lot of vapor, considering the relatively small coil involved. I know a few people have reported major leaking issues with any of them, but personally I've been using Kanger T3's, T3s's & ProTanks since March with no leaking all over the place problems.

 

[sbmqcy]

Thanks Pops and Rick. That's really the answer I was looking for. I've had some problems with leaks in top coil clearos (halo triton), but I've got a protank 2 and a mini and haven't seen any leaking problems. Now coil gunking and wicking issues--that I've definitely seen, esp with virgin vapor Georgia gold. I really like the stuff, but it's really hard on wicks and coils. I guess I'm gonna learn how to rebuild those heads. It looks straightforward enough.
I don't think I'll get too much into traditional dripping, except maybe to try flavors before committing to a tankful. A substantial portion of my vaping time is in a car, so I don't think that would work. I got a vision aurora to try bottom feeding. I haven't used it enough to know how efficient it is--I've only used it with the atomizer, not the head things, but it makes me dream of a vv bottom feeder. Efficiency of dripping + convenience of a tank, right?


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[BabyFeet]

Great chart.

In life, as with most things, information should be used as a baseline or a guide to point you in the right direction.
But man oh man, what a direction this is. I'm loving this graph.

Thanks again.

 

[Rickajho]

Thanks Pops and Rick. That's really the answer I was looking for. I've had some problems with leaks in top coil clearos (halo triton), but I've got a protank 2 and a mini and haven't seen any leaking problems. Now coil gunking and wicking issues--that I've definitely seen, esp with virgin vapor Georgia gold. I really like the stuff, but it's really hard on wicks and coils. I guess I'm gonna learn how to rebuild those heads. It looks straightforward enough.
I don't think I'll get too much into traditional dripping, except maybe to try flavors before committing to a tankful. A substantial portion of my vaping time is in a car, so I don't think that would work. I got a vision aurora to try bottom feeding. I haven't used it enough to know how efficient it is--I've only used it with the atomizer, not the head things, but it makes me dream of a vv bottom feeder. Efficiency of dripping + convenience of a tank, right?

Didn't mean to be picking on you - contrary to what Pops might think - but the question was rather vague. And yeah, this is the kind of place where someone might have been looking for someone to tell them to the exact micro-liter exactly how much liquid is evaporated by every device that's ever been made. So... lol

Have you started dry burning to clean? It does practically extend the life of the PT coils for weeks and it's the only real way to de-gunk both wick and coil. Regarding that issue - it really does come down to the flavoring and sweetener in the liquids. I have one liquid that can go up to 9 days in a Kanger head before it needs cleaning. Most other stuff? 3 days or less and it needs a dry burn.

I looked into the Vision Aurora but was put off by several things about it, most notably the tiny 1.8 ml bottle. Being the contrary sort I ordered a VapeMate instead, for about the same price at $29.99 => Super T ~ Vapemate

Neither the VapeMate or an Aurora can replace a real bottom feeder, but they will give you an idea if you are going to like the liquid feed experience, flavor, vapor production etc. The things I like about the VapeMate concept is it can use any standard 510 or 901 atty and drip tip, and you can fit any bottle on it up to 30 ml. Not stuck with the "only one" 1.8 ml bottle on the Aurora and the nuisances of filling or switching flavors. Personally I wouldn't consider either the Aurora or a VapeMate for portable use - for very different reasons though.

Come visit everyone here and watch the Reonauts and Vmodders slug it out => Liquid Feed APV Discussion

Long thread about the Aurora thingy => http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/general-e-smoking-discussion/457915-drippers-reo-users-take-look-vision-aurora-bft.html

Go here, sign up for mailing list to get notices of sales on Vmod's (up to 75% less than a Reo when you hit the right sale.) => Vapage E-Cigarettes, CIG2o Electronic Cigarette kits E-Cig and refill eCigs

 

[Fizzpop]

What Resistance/Voltage do you use with each one? I would wager that you are using either higher voltage or lower resistance on the Genny (thus more power) and thus more liquid consumed. I do not personally have a Genny, but from using multiple top and bottom coil devices I find juice consumption at the same power levels to be nearly identical in all devices I have tried.

I generally have a 2.4 Ohm coil on the Genny and vape it at 3.7 Volts. For the mini Davide, 1.8 Ohms at 3.3 Volts. So both are in the 6 Watt range, which is what I generally aim for as I like the vape at that power. While I generally agree with your premise that more power will burn more juice, I would argue that the delivery device can and does make a difference. I get giant clouds out of my Genny compared to the Davide with a T3s head (not to knock the Davide, I get PLENTY of vapor from it). The difference, I think comes from the area covered by the coil. The area of Genny's ceramic wick that is "coiled" is easily 3 times the area covered by a coil on the T3s. Bigger heated area = more juice vaporized.

So yeah, as Pops said, it is complicated.

 

[AttyPops]

Thanks Pops and Rick. That's really the answer I was looking for. I've had some problems with leaks in top coil clearos (halo triton), but I've got a protank 2 and a mini and haven't seen any leaking problems. Now coil gunking and wicking issues--that I've definitely seen, esp with virgin vapor Georgia gold. I really like the stuff, but it's really hard on wicks and coils. I guess I'm gonna learn how to rebuild those heads. It looks straightforward enough.
I don't think I'll get too much into traditional dripping, except maybe to try flavors before committing to a tankful. A substantial portion of my vaping time is in a car, so I don't think that would work. I got a vision aurora to try bottom feeding. I haven't used it enough to know how efficient it is--I've only used it with the atomizer, not the head things, but it makes me dream of a vv bottom feeder. Efficiency of dripping + convenience of a tank, right?


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Basically, tanks are "drip all at once" devices. Top or bottom coil. But changing the coil "wastes" juice to some extent. However, you don't end up with a bunch of juice stuck in some ball of filler insides a carto. Just some on the wicks.

 

[AttyPops]

Didn't mean to be picking on you - contrary to what Pops might think - but the question was rather vague.
....

I don't think. I just joke a lot.