Good call on the patent attorney Matt... not only to protect your innovations but also your income and investments. Good luck tomorrow!
ePipeMods.com Fully Custom Made Wood E-Pipes
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You're spot on Dane. The DCT is a prime example of that. Most angry pirate spent a lot of time developing that thing and months after it was out China had copied the DCT exactly and now they are selling them for $3 buck a pop.
I costs him more than that just in materials I'm sure. Too many people are getting ripped off and not just by China.
I have to put this new stuff on lock down.
Cross your fingers guys, I hope things go smooth tomorrow.
Oh and BTW you won't wait 2 years for a patented egg plant. No matter which way this goes
China will still knock things off, thats what they do, but he will be better protected still and everyone will know about the knockoffs and hopefully avoid them like most of us in the hifi world do. It makes me extremely nervous that this will take a long time to perfect though and we may not know the secret Matt is keeping for a long while which makes me a sad boy
I hope things go really well for you today Matt. I cant wait that long for my next Wellman Pipe.
I hope things go really well for you today Matt. I cant wait that long for my next Wellman Pipe.
Good to see you have many irons in the fire!
Hope all goes well for your venture in the coming year, Matt.
Prost!
Hope all goes well for your venture in the coming year, Matt.
Prost!
O.K. So here's the scoop guys. No more hear say and assumptions.
I will right this out so that if people are wondering what really happened 6 months from now...
Here's the answer->
My current pipe design is NOT patentable. There really is nothing special about the design that sets it apart from many other similar and even non vaping products.
My new product IS PATENTABLE. (I told you it was good).
HOWEVER->
1.) the patent will cost around $10,000
2.) the patent pending will provide no legal recourse until it has been processed and approved
3.) the only method of eventual recourse would be to issue non enforceable cease and desist letters.
4.) these letters cost $1500 per and do nothing until the patent is approved.
5.) Internationally I am screwed. I can only ATTEMPT to block sales in the U.S.
6.) Companies that ignore a cease and desist are small time and taking them to court will only result in court fees and no
or little restitution. ( I would most likely lose money defending the patent)
7.) China will rip this off and that will result in dozens of potential patent violations, not to mention a loss of international
sales, (which do in fact constitute a large portion of our sales).
8.) I have a new design idea every 2 months. So... do I want to chase my tail???
9.) If I sell this product with-out a patent it is extremely unlikely that a patent could be issued that would block me from
continuing my own production.
10.) Patent approval can take 18-24 months. Expediting this costs $3-5k more.
IMHO, It would not be beneficial to pursue a patent. This was not the Attorney's opinion, it's mine.
The attorney was very informative and did not really try and sway my opinion either way.
In fact he was encouraging copyrights and trademarking in addition to the patent if I decided to go that route.
I still have to weigh the options but I believe that the money spent on a patent would be a lost cause.
Those funds could be put to far better use in other avenues.
I have a brief weekend vacation to mull over all the new information and make a decision.
Opinions are welcome, I don't mind if you disagree.
Just tell me why, and explain your position as best as possible.
Either way this will have a tremendous impact on ePipeMods.com (hopefully for the better).
Several announcements will follow over the next few months.
Wish me luck, say a prayer, think good thought's... whatever works for you.
This is the hardest decision I have ever had to make.
-Matt
I will right this out so that if people are wondering what really happened 6 months from now...
Here's the answer->
My current pipe design is NOT patentable. There really is nothing special about the design that sets it apart from many other similar and even non vaping products.
My new product IS PATENTABLE. (I told you it was good).
HOWEVER->
1.) the patent will cost around $10,000
2.) the patent pending will provide no legal recourse until it has been processed and approved
3.) the only method of eventual recourse would be to issue non enforceable cease and desist letters.
4.) these letters cost $1500 per and do nothing until the patent is approved.
5.) Internationally I am screwed. I can only ATTEMPT to block sales in the U.S.
6.) Companies that ignore a cease and desist are small time and taking them to court will only result in court fees and no
or little restitution. ( I would most likely lose money defending the patent)
7.) China will rip this off and that will result in dozens of potential patent violations, not to mention a loss of international
sales, (which do in fact constitute a large portion of our sales).
8.) I have a new design idea every 2 months. So... do I want to chase my tail???
9.) If I sell this product with-out a patent it is extremely unlikely that a patent could be issued that would block me from
continuing my own production.
10.) Patent approval can take 18-24 months. Expediting this costs $3-5k more.
IMHO, It would not be beneficial to pursue a patent. This was not the Attorney's opinion, it's mine.
The attorney was very informative and did not really try and sway my opinion either way.
In fact he was encouraging copyrights and trademarking in addition to the patent if I decided to go that route.
I still have to weigh the options but I believe that the money spent on a patent would be a lost cause.
Those funds could be put to far better use in other avenues.
I have a brief weekend vacation to mull over all the new information and make a decision.
Opinions are welcome, I don't mind if you disagree.
Just tell me why, and explain your position as best as possible.
Either way this will have a tremendous impact on ePipeMods.com (hopefully for the better).
Several announcements will follow over the next few months.
Wish me luck, say a prayer, think good thought's... whatever works for you.
This is the hardest decision I have ever had to make.
-Matt
It makes me extremely nervous that this will take a long time to perfect though and we may not know the secret Matt is keeping for a long while which makes me a sad boy
I am a very confident that either way, patent or no, this new product will be released within a matter of a few months.
The R&D for it is very nearly complete. The design is too simple to fail.
HOWEVER-> ePipeMods may have a dry spell for a few months while the new design is in production.
I know you are a biz and I also know you are the reason many of us have been able to keep off the cigs and in the long run isn't that what it's all about? Use the money to stay ahead of the competition not to keep them away. I think good ol made in the USA will prevail and those that buy China's stuff prob weren't going to buy your stuff anyway because they either couldn't afford it or they don't appreciate original works of art. Just my immediate thoughts on the matter.
For the most part I agree and hope that your right. You've made a very good point and one that is being considered in my decision. Thanks for the support
I am not sure the market is really large enough for wood pipe mods for a Chinese factory to pop out 5000 of them a batch. I don't think a patent in this industry is the way to go as it seems to evolve so fast by the time you had it made something better would come along, not to mention a patent without litigation is almost worthless.
You're right about the patent being virtually worthless.
However the Chinese still produce a DSE 601.
My new design could easily replace the 601 for the Chinese.
The biggest fear (and there is not a whole lot that can be done about it),
is that China will steal the design and drive the cost down,
to a point at which I could no longer compete with the price of my own design.
All it takes is 1 American company recognizing the potential of the product,
Sending it to China to be mass produced. Then it's only a matter of time and a short time at that.
This is what has already happened with countless US designs.
Frank stuff...
Like it or not, ePm is a niche seller embedded within a niche market.
People who are looking for ePm type products aren't interested in the knock-off suppliers' product.
People looking for cheap/knock-offs aren't looking to buy ePm product, but may become an ePm customer after their cheapo experiment.
Put the money into the product - not into protection... Time invested in chasing the protection process (at EVERY stage) is truly wasted & stifles creativity.
Make it "better", keep the price in line with the product, and you'll thrive.
A wise man once told me "I don't have any competition. There are just other people in the business"
...remember where you heard it...
Like it or not, ePm is a niche seller embedded within a niche market.
People who are looking for ePm type products aren't interested in the knock-off suppliers' product.
People looking for cheap/knock-offs aren't looking to buy ePm product, but may become an ePm customer after their cheapo experiment.
Put the money into the product - not into protection... Time invested in chasing the protection process (at EVERY stage) is truly wasted & stifles creativity.
Make it "better", keep the price in line with the product, and you'll thrive.
A wise man once told me "I don't have any competition. There are just other people in the business"
...remember where you heard it...
Last edited:
Frank stuff...
Like it or not, ePm is a niche seller embedded within a niche market.
People who are looking for ePm type products aren't interested the the knock-off suppliers' product.
People looking for cheap/knock-offs aren't looking to buy ePm product, but may become an ePm customer after their cheapo experiment.
Put the money into the product - not into protection... Time invested in chasing the protection process (at EVERY stage) is truly wasted & stifles creativity.
Make it "better", keep the price in line with the product, and you'll thrive.
A wise man once told me "I don't have any competition. There are just other people in the business"
...remember where you heard it...
Well said Scott.
And believe me, fear, WILL NOT prevent me from moving forward.
I simply acknowledge all possibilities.
I already have a few ideas for how to face the major threats head on.
Like Ion said, these are more than functional items, they are art. Beyond that though, specialty products like pipes tend to be collectables. Look at the automotive industry. Most people are willing to drive a standard inexpensive vehicle. A Ford does the exact same job as a Bentley, but the collectors and aficionados must have the Bentley because of the unique style and signature name. China's mass produced 601 is the Ford, a lot of people have them but everyone WANTS the ePipeMod/Bentley.
Best of luck with all of this. Patent issues are a bear. However, if you do forgo a patent and produce, at least your work will constitute prior art and be protection against someone else getting a patent and attempting to prevent you from making your designs.
Does this mean I should try to get an order in for a custom Olivewood Blowfish sooner rather than later?
My.02
Talk to another Patent attorney.
Assuming the 10k is the going rate for a patent, how long would it take (how many pipes would you have to make) to recoup that 10K in profits? If you could recoup that reletively quickly, then wait til you have the money and get it, once you have the provisional or patent pending, you're in about as good a shape as you would be in with a full blown patent. So you could start production at that point.
If you don't get a patent...
The other option is to take your designs on paper as well as finished pipe examples and mail them to yourself. One UPS, one Fedex, and one USPS. Send them (on the same day) overnight or 2 day in those hard to open envelopes/boxes. Date all the paperwork inside and put a note about what you're doing and why. Then send those, signature required, to yourself. When you get them, go online and print out the delivery conformation and tracking history and put that with the UNOPENED packages in a save/secure place. THEN, if anyone ever tries to sue you over your own designs, you have documented, sealed evidence that you had the working, produced designs at least by the date you mailed them to yourself. Chances are, anyone trying to rip you off could not produce any documentation that they had the idea prior to when you mailed them to yourself.
At this point, you are making actual pipes, only they are vaped instead of smoked. You're a pipe-maker. China will never be a pipe-maker. They make product out of plastic or really cheap wood and it won't stand the test of time. That's why they're cheap. And honestly, there is a market for that stuff because not everyone can afford a $200 + pipe. BUT, everyone would prefer to have the nice, customized, hand-made, one-of-a-kind epipemods pipe. So there will always be a market for your pipes regardless of the copies. Plus, as others have stated, the market is moving so fast, someone could theoretically come out with an even better design by the time your patent is finished and you start production. Then think of all the sales you would have lost in the meantime!
I like the way someone put it. You should start etching "Wellman" on your pipes somewhere. It's more cool to say "I have a Wellman Pipe" instead of an "ePipemods pipe". ;-)
Talk to another Patent attorney.
Assuming the 10k is the going rate for a patent, how long would it take (how many pipes would you have to make) to recoup that 10K in profits? If you could recoup that reletively quickly, then wait til you have the money and get it, once you have the provisional or patent pending, you're in about as good a shape as you would be in with a full blown patent. So you could start production at that point.
If you don't get a patent...
The other option is to take your designs on paper as well as finished pipe examples and mail them to yourself. One UPS, one Fedex, and one USPS. Send them (on the same day) overnight or 2 day in those hard to open envelopes/boxes. Date all the paperwork inside and put a note about what you're doing and why. Then send those, signature required, to yourself. When you get them, go online and print out the delivery conformation and tracking history and put that with the UNOPENED packages in a save/secure place. THEN, if anyone ever tries to sue you over your own designs, you have documented, sealed evidence that you had the working, produced designs at least by the date you mailed them to yourself. Chances are, anyone trying to rip you off could not produce any documentation that they had the idea prior to when you mailed them to yourself.
At this point, you are making actual pipes, only they are vaped instead of smoked. You're a pipe-maker. China will never be a pipe-maker. They make product out of plastic or really cheap wood and it won't stand the test of time. That's why they're cheap. And honestly, there is a market for that stuff because not everyone can afford a $200 + pipe. BUT, everyone would prefer to have the nice, customized, hand-made, one-of-a-kind epipemods pipe. So there will always be a market for your pipes regardless of the copies. Plus, as others have stated, the market is moving so fast, someone could theoretically come out with an even better design by the time your patent is finished and you start production. Then think of all the sales you would have lost in the meantime!
I like the way someone put it. You should start etching "Wellman" on your pipes somewhere. It's more cool to say "I have a Wellman Pipe" instead of an "ePipemods pipe". ;-)
Good points Matt... it's a shame the patent process is so laborious (and expensive), but to your own point it may indeed be futile to invest that kind of money in a single design concept that won't protect you from the knockoffs overseas anyway... and because your own creativity will likely supersede that design in just a couple months. Without knowing the full uniqueness of your new design, you may very well be better off using that $10k toward future R&D instead of patenting a single design. Either way you go, you've proven to be a good businessman and understand the needs and wants of your loyal customers... I foresee long-term success for you no matter what the short-term decision here is. Best of luck on your decision Matt and whatever the outcome I'll still be buying your art.
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