Ethical or unethical?
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First of all, this guy requested everyone's opinion. No one volunteered. Then when he doesn't get an "atta' boy" from everyone for selfishly leading her in to vaping so that he can have someone to hang out with and share something he knows practically nothing about (just like the rest of us), everyone gets in an uproar. Don't ask questions that you don't want answered!
None of us know what the long-term effects of vaping are, or even what is really in the fluid. All we know is what some Chinese guys tell us. But, the caring, concerned guy leads his girlfriend into it. Why? For his own personal, selfish agenda! Now, ain't that love? As for those of you trying to romanticize it (Oh, that's so sweet. You're so lucky to have someone who is willing to be a lab rat with you!) is just a joke.
This has nothing to do with personal freedom either. According to him, she didn't request one or buy one for herself. He bought it and she most likely started using it to please him. He also said that she was the one who suggested it to him in the first place. Well, did you ever think that she did that because she would like you to quit smoking so everytime you kissed her it wasn't like licking an ashtray?
I'm mainly curious about the motivation behind starting the thread after the fact. If he had posted prior to getting her a VP, that would make sense. He's probably sitting at home LHAO at all the turmoil going on.
This forum is turning into a three-ring circus!
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Everyone's not getting in an uproar about it. Evidently, just me. I find it depressing that, to me, some ex-smokers and now vapers, are sounding like vehement anti-smokers and politicians that are reactively making laws for sue-happy, irresponsible parents. I'm not complaining about people giving an opinion that is not mine, I stated my shock at the number of them.
Actually, there are a number of toxicology reports done by the responsible e-liquid suppliers out there. I agree they should be more comprehensive such as analyzing the vapor form and identify the chemicals when vaporized but we have a *lot* more than just what Ruyan says. Search these forums and you will find many PDFs from those labs and studies.
What made you think that you need or are entitled to be this woman's steward? She's a big girl. She does have the ability and free will to open her mouth and say "No" even if coerced. It's even kinda funny you say that seeing as she is a *psych major*
. And, to play devil's advocate, who's to say the gf wasn't selfish in turning him on to e-cigs in the first place? How do we know she did it for *his* health? We can't assume what we don't know to fit with our opinions... that's the job of Fox News.Although this is all conjecture, this would prove my point above.
This is the one thing I do partially agree with you on. Not the question that he asked after the fact (many of us in the world think more with our gut and our emotions before our logical mind kicks in... I'm Sicilian, I should know hehe) but more than that he had stated his girl was a psych major. Sounds like an experiment to me. It's ok though, it brings up good points, nonetheless.
Let's try to keep this really simple. If she is an adult, then she is free to make her own choices about vaping, or smoking for that matter. The key word here is ADULT. It is not like you were standing in an alley behind a school, calling "here kiddies, try some of this". The FDA can monitor these sites all they want. The FDA has approved many drugs that have proven to be fatal, or false. I, for one, do not trust the FDA one bit, nor would they be able to stop me in my "pursuit of happiness".
If any of you really believe that he enticed her to begin vaping, then the same can be said for all of you in this forum, as it was your posts, reviews, etc. that persuaded me into taking it up. Again, if she is an adult, the point is moot.
John
If any of you really believe that he enticed her to begin vaping, then the same can be said for all of you in this forum, as it was your posts, reviews, etc. that persuaded me into taking it up. Again, if she is an adult, the point is moot.
John
Vee,
What gives me the "right" is that this guy ended his post with the statement "any thoughts?". I do believe that this gives me the right to express my thoughts. I was invited!
I do agree with you that the post contains a lot of conjecture, sort of like assuming this girl is really a psych major just because he said so!
What gives me the "right" is that this guy ended his post with the statement "any thoughts?". I do believe that this gives me the right to express my thoughts. I was invited!
I do agree with you that the post contains a lot of conjecture, sort of like assuming this girl is really a psych major just because he said so!
bzlytbeer,
If the point is moot then the thread was moot when it was posted. I didn't start the thread, I just responded as requested. I think you should be making these points to the person who started the thread.
Vee,
What gives me the "right" is that this guy ended his post with the statement "any thoughts?". I do believe that this gives me the right to express my thoughts. I was invited!
I do agree with you that the post contains a lot of conjecture, sort of like assuming this girl is really a psych major just because he said so!
So, correct me if I'm wrong... You're saying just because someone is asking you your opinion of their action, this automatically gives you the "right" to decide what a third person should do with their life? Unless they are mentally disabled, chemically imbalanced and not on meds, or otherwise show that they are incapable of making a rational decision on their own, I don't believe anyone has that right.
Even then, it's not MY right, it's the right of their guardian. And beyond that, where would you draw the line? How would you determine a person like that would need help in making certain decisions for themselves and where they are capable of making their own? Should you stop a mentally handicapped or relapsed schizophrenic person from getting married? Or getting a tattoo? Or picking up smoking? Where would you draw the line? And we're not even talking about these situations... we're talking about a, presumably, normal, intelligent, college woman.... in behavioral sciences LOL!
I hope you understand where I'm going with this. And, if you didn't believe what he was telling you, why would you respond with an opinion in the first place?
Vee,
Uhhh, I had to reread my post on that one but it would be helpful if you would point out where I made any kind of "decision" about what she should do with her life. I don't think I even said she should stop vaping?
I guess I responded to his posts for the same reasons you keep responding to mine. But, on this last one you're getting a little out in left field, don't you think?
Here you go:
This is not only conjecture but implies that she requires guardianship from unsavory influences. Opinions to support facts, not the other way around.
I'm going to drop this as once you get to knitpicking exact words that are being said, the conversation is pointless. I responded to your post due to your comment that my opinion of "romanticizing" their vaping enjoyment was "a joke". That and the bewildering amount of conjecture on your part to support your opinion.
As to what field position I'm in, that's up to others to determine... it's all about perspective.
I think it is very naive to even entertain for one moment the idea that those who wish to ban e-cigs, including the FDA, do not monitor this site. It is the site on the internet for supporters of this issue. What they do with what they find here is up for debate, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking we aren't being watched.
Anyone who still thinks there isn't somebody watching is dead wrong, plain and simple. As I said before:
FACT: A post that I made in a thread here was quoted out of context in an 'anti' article. It wasn't attributed to me, but I recognized my post. That article did mention this forum.
I'm not telling anyone what to do or say. Just be aware that what goes on in ECF doesn't necessarily stay here.
Vee,Here you go:
This is not only conjecture but implies that she requires guardianship from unsavory influences. Opinions to support facts, not the other way around.
I'm going to drop this as once you get to knitpicking exact words that are being said, the conversation is pointless. I responded to your post due to your comment that my opinion of "romanticizing" their vaping enjoyment was "a joke". That and the bewildering amount of conjecture on your part to support your opinion.
As to what field position I'm in, that's up to others to determine... it's all about perspective.
Couldn't find anywhere that I made any "decisions" about how she should live her life, huh? I didn't think that you would because I didn't. And you sure make a lot of implications to suit your position.
Also, as Nuck pointed out you are truly socially adapt!
Here you go:
This is not only conjecture but implies that she requires guardianship from unsavory influences. Opinions to support facts, not the other way around.
I'm going to drop this as once you get to knitpicking exact words that are being said, the conversation is pointless. I responded to your post due to your comment that my opinion of "romanticizing" their vaping enjoyment was "a joke". That and the bewildering amount of conjecture on your part to support your opinion.
As to what field position I'm in, that's up to others to determine... it's all about perspective.
Just an afterthought but taking someone's words and assuming that they mean something else fall under "knitpicking exact words" and "conjecture", right?
Well, I do apologize if I hurt your feelings with the "romanticizing is a joke" comment but it wasn't even your post that I was commenting on! Just think, if you hadn't been wrong again we could have been buds!
P.S. "Field Position"? Now that was a joke right? Really?
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Unfortunately, Cardinal Winds, there a lot of naive people on the site and also the "tough guys" who say they don't give a d**n if the FDA is monitoring. All of these people hurt our position, in one way or another.
I posted this morning that the guy who started this thread hurt our cause by stating that he started his non-smoking, tobacco-free girlfriend on Personal Vaporizers and I have been attacked, in one form or another, all day for it. Everything from being anti personal rights to a bunch of convoluted logic about wanting to control people!
A lot of people are in denial and don't think that it makes any difference.
Well, hopefully some of the posts confirming monitoring will sink in and I'll probably remain a pariah for posting this for awhile.
I have to say that I mostly support what you're saying, HK45. If it was my girlfriend and she wasn't a smoker, I would feel uncomfortable introducing her to vaping, even if it was 0 nic and she didn't inhale. My gut feeling tells me that it's relatively safe, but since I love my girlfriend and want the best for her healthwise, I'd feel uncomfortable about it. I probably wouldn't have a problem if she vaped occasionally, such as on weekends, but every day would be worrisome.
I would rather wait till more studies come out. Even now, I worry about the effects of second-hand vapor. I really hope the health results turn out positive so that we all can enjoy a vaping utopia.
That said, if a non-smoker chooses on their own, without any prodding from anyone, to give vaping a try instead of taking up nasty tobacco, I think they've made a much wiser, healthier choice.
I would rather wait till more studies come out. Even now, I worry about the effects of second-hand vapor. I really hope the health results turn out positive so that we all can enjoy a vaping utopia.
That said, if a non-smoker chooses on their own, without any prodding from anyone, to give vaping a try instead of taking up nasty tobacco, I think they've made a much wiser, healthier choice.
Seems to me she can make her own decisions about what she wants to do with her own life. I rather doubt that she is a drooling idiot who requires constant supervision.
It is NO ONES job to decide how someone else wants to run (or ruin) their life. If she didn't want to do, she would not. Simple as that.
Nannies be damned to the 9th pit of hell.
As for government snoops, they have already exceeded their authority as granted by such an incredible margin as to be unbelievable. I never thought I would see the day I would quote this man, but I think he had it right a long time ago now:
"One has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Utterly amazing to me how much anyone and everyone feels they have the right to muck about in anything and everything anyone does. Patently disgusting. Seems that there are a vast majority that need to get some kind of life other than just meddling in everyone else's.
I find the question of ethics wholly irrelevant. Offer made, what she chooses to do with it is none of anyone else's business.
It is NO ONES job to decide how someone else wants to run (or ruin) their life. If she didn't want to do, she would not. Simple as that.
Nannies be damned to the 9th pit of hell.
As for government snoops, they have already exceeded their authority as granted by such an incredible margin as to be unbelievable. I never thought I would see the day I would quote this man, but I think he had it right a long time ago now:
"One has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Utterly amazing to me how much anyone and everyone feels they have the right to muck about in anything and everything anyone does. Patently disgusting. Seems that there are a vast majority that need to get some kind of life other than just meddling in everyone else's.
I find the question of ethics wholly irrelevant. Offer made, what she chooses to do with it is none of anyone else's business.
First things first...........I think we should let this thread die off for monitoring reasons..
secondly yes everyone does have a right to do what they want to their bodies...
thirdly although I agree there is no reason to be rude,crude and obnoxious.....why is everyone attacking those who gave an opinion to someone who asked for one(careful what you wish for)
secondly yes everyone does have a right to do what they want to their bodies...
thirdly although I agree there is no reason to be rude,crude and obnoxious.....why is everyone attacking those who gave an opinion to someone who asked for one(careful what you wish for)
HK -
If you would have read what I wrote, I said the point was moot if she is an ADULT, then being able to make her own decisions. Like you, he was asking all of our opinions, and as you know, opinions are like @$$holes. We all have em, and some stink worse than others. I know mine do (opinions, that is)!
I actually agree with you in a way - I would not even let a non-smoker try one of mine. Just because I would hate to be the one who contributed to that person now having a habit (bad or good).
John
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