Evolv-ing Thread

[mikepetro]

I haven't been on ECF in a while, ongoing medical issues - boring stuff, but starting get back out on the forums and getting twitchy about buying a new dna box now that it looks like the replay feature I poo-pooed initially as never going to work looks, from several people on my home forum, to be actually quite good. I've been blissfully trotting along with my ePetite (and of course my beloved TreeBox) but now that "everyone else" I know is replaying I feel a bit left out, and I'm super pro tc, so I feel the world is off its axis if I'm not at the forefront

But the big issue I'm having is that I like very plain box mods, as in no adornments/accented panels or bonkers design or colours, so for me what is currently available with a dna75c or 250c is damb fugly to thine eyes. The HCigar dual battery 75c mod is only just possibly maybe acceptable...

I've been looking for anything affordable and plain....plain should equal affordable, right?

I'm jonesing...it's gotten so bad now that the other day I sent the Vandy Vape people an unsolicited rather pleading email, asking them if they'd consider using their new Pulse 80W mod design (which I thought was the best design I'd seen in ages, even though I'm not and will never be a squonk - I do not reject and try and fight gravity, my juice goes in a tank on top of the mid the way <insert your personal magical sky fairy here> intended) as a base platform to build me, and plain design loving others I know exist in large numbers, a dna75c based box mod, omitting the squonk cutout on the side panel, leaving out the sippy cup (squonk bottle) and instead adding a second battery or leaving it void and a single....and if I could have it in all plain black like their full black pulse 80W I'd be a happy camper.

I've just become so dissalusioned by the raft of fugly mods streaming out of China in the last year or so, so much fugly ....that this is what it's come to, me pleading with a vendor...

I've lost hope if List Vape coming up with something I'd buy, going on their current designs...I fear the ePetite may be the last thing I buy from them, pity, everytime they made a simple box mod (Original Effusion) I went out and bought it and loved them...

Does anyone share my pain at the current trend of fugly mods getting in the way of your vape bliss. To my eyes it looks like there's 1 16yo kid in China designing for the entire industry, and I'm happy to put up the cash to make him go away. Okay, maybe there's 2 of them, one person is prolly solely responsible for the seemingly iron clad requirement currently plaguing the market to add resin to fricking everything.

It's simple, I want a dna75c mod, won't someone sell me a plain non-fugly one...

I like my mods boxy, boring and black...or silver at a stretch. If I see resin or rainbow, someone's going to die.....

p.s. please don't suggest the list vape mirage, or I'll have to repost my diatribe from my home forum about it looking like it is made from left over vape forward parts, how if only the side panels radius's extended down and were the same radius as the from cutout, it might be almost acceptable...only much much longer

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And all of that typed on phone, I would have thrown the damn thing against the wall half way through.

Have you considered building your own?

 

[BillW50]

The laws of physics: Current flows from a higher voltage potential to a lower voltage potential and the greater the difference between the voltages the more the current flows. But as Rossum and Awsum said the batteries have very low resistance (impedance) so it wouldn't take much over 4.2v at the charger to produce much higher current flow to the batt.

I know and batteries do have a very low internal resistance. But I say just try it. I have and the battery takes it pretty slowly. Even with a CC/CV power supply set for 4A @ 4.20v, if you get more than 1A, it might just barely. But the cell isn't going to take that 4A.

 

[awsum140]

I think what you're seeing when you switch current rates, TD, is the charger limiting current even though the voltage doesn't change from an, apparent, 3.7 volts. It's very similar to the 500mah wall wart charging a car battery. What that voltage represents is the voltage of the charger under the load of the battery which is at 3.7 volts when you're looking. The battery is acting sort of like a regulator in this case, limiting the voltage at its own terminals. I'll bet if you watch over the charge cycle you'll see that voltage come up and if you pull the battery and check the battery along the way, those readings will match. The big problem seeing this is that the chargers won't start to charge without a battery as a load so you can't actually see the real output voltage of the charger.

Think about a high current charger for car batteries. You hook up a car battery that is low and needs a charge. The voltmeter on the charger reflects the battery voltage even when it's being charged at, say 50 amps. As you watch the voltmeter, the voltage will come up. The whole time the charger is putting out, probably, 14.5 volts.

 

[stylemessiah]

And all of that typed on phone, I would have thrown the damn thing against the half way through.

Have you considered building your own?

It's easy to put aside the travails and challenges of typing a long piece on a phone, if you're committed to the rant Mike , and most who know me know I'm nothing if not committed, and should be

As for building a dna75c box myself, I have thought of it and found a kit here and there

DIY Box Mod Kit - DNA75 - Canada

Not too bad, considering you have to/can option it out, but expensive if you're in Aus...

Still on the fence as I haven't soldered anything since the DNA40 days and I still have the horrors from that...bought a HCigar HB40 and literally the first day I put my 1st build in.. nickel of course back then, the chip died on the 6th toot, had to get a new chip sent, it got lost in nail, had to get a 2nd sent ...this all took months to Aus, and then I had to solder to those tiny pads, and it worked for 2 weeks, and then of course the chip died. And so I moved on to other mods

Thank God all my DNA mods since have been reliable...

I half considered asking Laurie to build me one but he's been uber busy irl with work etc for a while now, and whereas normally I don't care about annoying anyone and in fact enjoy it, I like him too much to subject him to my madness


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[Rossum]

Because our cells won't take anything much more than 1A @ 4.20v.

I respectfully submit that this makes no sense.

Let's say a cell's its resting voltage is 3.2V and it has 20 milliohms internal resistance. If you apply a "hard" 4.2V (from a supply with no current limit, and using leads with no resistance) that cell should take 50 amps. Even if its resting voltage is all the way up to 4.1, it should still take 5A.

V/R=I. V in this case is the difference between the supply voltage and the cells resting voltage. R is the internal resistance of the cell. Of course in the real world, the stuff between the power supply and the cells also have some resistance, which should be added to R, so the real-world currents will be somewhat less.

 

[BillW50]

I respectfully submit that this makes no sense.

Let's say a cell's its resting voltage is 3.2V and it has 20 milliohms internal resistance. If you apply a "hard" 4.2V (from a supply with no current limit, and using leads with no resistance) that cell should take 50 amps. Even if its resting voltage is all the way up to 4.1, it should still take 5A.

V/R=I. V in this case is the difference between the supply voltage and the cells resting voltage. R is the internal resistance of the cell. Of course in the real world, the stuff between the power supply and the cells also have some resistance, which should be added to R, so the real-world currents will be somewhat less.

Exactly! But try it. It just doesn't take it. I can hook one of my 18650s drained to 3.2v directly to one of my CC/CV power supplies and dial in 4A @ 4.2v and then make the output hot. And I'll be lucky to get at least 1A of charge. I tried the same with one of my 5Ah RC lipos and it is better. There they can almost take 5A @ 4.2v per cell. Maybe I should use 8 AWG wiring. Maybe that is the problem.

 

[Rossum]

Exactly! But try it. It just doesn't take it. I can hook one of my 18650s drained to 3.2v directly to one of my CC/CV power supplies and dial in 4A @ 4.2v and then make the output hot. And I'll be lucky to get at least 1A of charge. I tried the same with one of my 5Ah RC lipos and it is better. There they can almost take 5A @ 4.2v per cell. Maybe I should use 8 AWG wiring. Maybe that is the problem.

It should be pretty straightforward to measure how much voltage drop there is in the leads, and/or what the voltage across the cell itself is.

 

[Steamer861]

It's easy to put aside the travails and challenges of typing a long piece on a phone, if you're committed to the rant Mike , and most who know me know I'm nothing if not committed, and should be

As for building a dna75c box myself, I have thought of it and found a kit here and there

DIY Box Mod Kit - DNA75 - Canada

Not too bad, considering you have to/can option it out, but expensive if you're in Aus...

Still on the fence as I haven't soldered anything since the DNA40 days and I still have the horrors from that...bought a HCigar HB40 and literally the first day I put my 1st build in.. nickel of course back then, the chip died on the 6th toot, had to get a new chip sent, it got lost in nail, had to get a 2nd sent ...this all took months to Aus, and then I had to solder to those tiny pads, and it worked for 2 weeks, and then of course the chip died. And so I moved on to other mods

Thank God all my DNA mods since have been reliable...

I half considered asking Laurie to build me one but he's been uber busy irl with work etc for a while now, and whereas normally I don't care about annoying anyone and in fact enjoy it, I like him too much to subject him to my madness


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Maybe I can motivate you a bit? Soldering on the 75,200,250,75c,250c, is way easier than the old 40's The solder pads are way bigger now.
I know shipping to AUS is really expensive! So that mite be a deterant
Here's a pic of the kit you linked to I chose the ABM1 with external chip mount & a FD 510.

Here's a comparison to a Hana 200 with a lipo, same size as an ERM

There is this option to, $119.00 Authentic Lost Vape Mirage DNA75C TC VW APV Box Mod - 1-75W / 200-600'F / 1*18650/1*20700/1*21700 at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping 96.43 USD from FT with code "Map" probably way less shipping to AUS from FT, than from Canada?

 

[laurie9300]

I just bought that same Rosewood Mirage! (almost Treeboxy?)

$131 AUD shipped within AUS

 

[laurie9300]

I half considered asking Laurie to build me one but he's been uber busy irl with work etc for a while now, and whereas normally I don't care about annoying anyone and in fact enjoy it, I like him too much to subject him to my madness

You find a kit you like style, I'll build it for you.......

 

[Alexander Mundy]

Paging @Mooch could you grace our presence with your knowledge?

I respectfully submit that this makes no sense.

Let's say a cell's its resting voltage is 3.2V and it has 20 milliohms internal resistance. If you apply a "hard" 4.2V (from a supply with no current limit, and using leads with no resistance) that cell should take 50 amps. Even if its resting voltage is all the way up to 4.1, it should still take 5A.

V/R=I. V in this case is the difference between the supply voltage and the cells resting voltage. R is the internal resistance of the cell. Of course in the real world, the stuff between the power supply and the cells also have some resistance, which should be added to R, so the real-world currents will be somewhat less.

Exactly! But try it. It just doesn't take it. I can hook one of my 18650s drained to 3.2v directly to one of my CC/CV power supplies and dial in 4A @ 4.2v and then make the output hot. And I'll be lucky to get at least 1A of charge. I tried the same with one of my 5Ah RC lipos and it is better. There they can almost take 5A @ 4.2v per cell. Maybe I should use 8 AWG wiring. Maybe that is the problem.

 

[TrollDragon]

I think what you're seeing when you switch current rates, TD, is the charger limiting current even though the voltage doesn't change from an, apparent, 3.7 volts. It's very similar to the 500mah wall wart charging a car battery. What that voltage represents is the voltage of the charger under the load of the battery which is at 3.7 volts when you're looking. The battery is acting sort of like a regulator in this case, limiting the voltage at its own terminals. I'll bet if you watch over the charge cycle you'll see that voltage come up and if you pull the battery and check the battery along the way, those readings will match. The big problem seeing this is that the chargers won't start to charge without a battery as a load so you can't actually see the real output voltage of the charger.

Think about a high current charger for car batteries. You hook up a car battery that is low and needs a charge. The voltmeter on the charger reflects the battery voltage even when it's being charged at, say 50 amps. As you watch the voltmeter, the voltage will come up. The whole time the charger is putting out, probably, 14.5 volts.

This does make sense as I could see the battery voltage level climbing quite quickly at the 2A rate. When I measured the no load voltage of the empty bay, it showed 5V but that doesn't really mean anything.

 

[Mooch]

Paging @Mooch could you grace our presence with your knowledge?

The problem is that the lead and connection resistances can be considerable. Combined with the cell IR you have a situation where a CC/CV power supply “sees” 4.2V and the current drops as expected.

Without quantifying these resistances we can’t say what’s going on.

@BillW50 , what voltage does your CC/CV supply display when charging that 18650?

Another thing to consider is the the IR of a battery increases considerably at lower voltages.

 

[BillW50]

@Mooch: With a discharged Samsung 25R down to 3.20v, the CC/CV power supply is set to 2A@4.20v. It shows 1A or less @4.20v. I figured I must have some extra resistance in the loop which would explain the lower charge current. I found 0.4Ω in the long leads. So that would explain it (at least in part).

 

[stylemessiah]

I just bought that same Rosewood Mirage! (almost Treeboxy?)

$131 AUD shipped within AUS

Ummm you know me, there's TreeBoxy, and there's *almost* TreeBoxy....huge gap that you could fit every resin encrusted mod between

You find a kit you like style, I'll build it for you.......

Damn, I forgot about your omnipresence, and kindness.

Kinda ruined my plan to claim on our home forum that "@mikepetro said you have to build me a dna75c box" for ....s and giggles

But you're safe, I wouldn't really do that to you. I may get my finger out and do it myself yet...although I've just learned that JAC Vapour may be planning on releasing a dna75c box soonish, and I may wait lazily to see how that pans out (hopefully they nail fitting magnets properly this go around)

Plus I've still got that plea in at Vandy Vape and elsewhere to make a boring box with a dna75c in...step 1 get a box, as in a box..plain old rectangle thanks, step 2 put a dna75c in and a battery and a 510. I miss the days when a box mod MEANT a boring box...


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[Rossum]

@Mooch: With a discharged Samsung 25R down to 3.20v, the CC/CV power supply is set to 2A@4.20v. It shows 1A or less @4.20v. I figured I must have some extra resistance in the loop which would explain the lower charge current. I found 0.4Ω in the long leads. So that would explain it (at least in part).

Yeah, if you really have 0.4 ohms in the leads that would explain a lot.

It would be interesting to measure the voltage of the battery itself. Or if your power supply supports separate "sense" leads, to put those on the battery.

 

[BillW50]

My meter says it is accurate in the 400Ω range to: 0.1Ω +/-1.2%+5.

What the heck does the +5 part mean?

 

[stylemessiah]

Maybe I can motivate you a bit? Soldering on the 75,200,250,75c,250c, is way easier than the old 40's The solder pads are way bigger now.
I know shipping to AUS is really expensive! So that mite be a deterant
Here's a pic of the kit you linked to I chose the ABM1 with external chip mount & a FD 510.

Here's a comparison to a Hana 200 with a lipo, same size as an ERM

There is this option to, $119.00 Authentic Lost Vape Mirage DNA75C TC VW APV Box Mod - 1-75W / 200-600'F / 1*18650/1*20700/1*21700 at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping 96.43 USD from FT with code "Map" probably way less shipping to AUS from FT, than from Canada?

Cheers, glad to know soldering tabs are larger on the newer boards because Sheesh it was a pain on the 40!

That kit and pics is the business and tickles my pickle compared to what's out there so far, so thanks for the info about the ABM1 and pics

Added to the usual expense of shipping to Australia, we've just had the evil government, in response to a mostly single whinging chain retailer, apply a 10% services tax to all online purchases under $1,000...so that's on top of the already crippling geo gouge we usually deal with.

Meanwhile, bear witness to a graphic depiction of my issues with the Lost Vape Mirage...

1. My OCD would bother me that these cutouts weren't level or the same radius, see bottom for what my sickness says it should be Even when sleeping, part of my brain would be awake knowing this was wrong and obsessing over it....

2. There's no way to get it without the bloody resin madness...Laurie seemingly got the last Rosewood ish one


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[Rossum]

My meter says it is accurate in the 400Ω range to: 0.1Ω +/-1.2%+5.

What the heck does the +5 part mean?

Not sure. I don't trust a conventional meter below 1 ohm at all. I'd measure voltage drop across them with a known current flowing through them.

 

[BillW50]

Not sure. I don't trust a conventional meter below 1 ohm at all. I'd measure voltage drop across them with a known current flowing through them.

And I don't trust my Eleaf atty ohm meter reading coils either.