Evolv-ing Thread

[KTMRider]

I remember reading about the idea of swapping batteries and there were some major hurdles that made it unworkable in the real world. Size and shape of the batteries, battery stations (like gas stations) and what Mike mentioned (cycles) was a concern. batteries in electric cars are not the same chemistry as what we use in mods. They can take more cycles and abuse (high discharge) but still a valid point.

There is a lot of advancement in battery technology but still not ready for prime time for cars.

 

[BlueridgeDog]

Commuting distances in the US make it rough to be an early adopter in the electric car world. My round trip is occasionally 160 miles. Things will change and they will become standard.

 

[KTMRider]

No offence, Tpat, but what happens at night? I love the ads for solar power, 20000 watt systems. Yeah, 20000 watts in 24 hours with full sunlight for 24 hours. Then solar panels are being made under, shall we say, not the most environmentally friendly conditions "off shore".

Same as any other solar device. Store power in a battery pack.

Some researchers in Australia developed new solar cells that are up to 34% efficient (Most solar panels are 24%).

 

[BlueridgeDog]

The molten salt plant seems to have solved the 24 hour/cloudy day issue:

 

[BillW50]

Changing batteries in automobiles shouldn't be any harder than changing batteries in forklifts.

 

[awsum140]

What I was saying regarding solar charging is that to get enough output to be meaningful, using the surface area of the average car, is impossible under all but ideal conditions.

So now we'll have molten salts in the car? Wow! And people are afraid of the hazards of propane powered vehicles. The technology will come along, I'm sure, but right now it's just not there yet. It is interesting to watch though and it is forcing a lot of innovation along the way. We can only hope, but I want a Jetson's car, flying with autopilot.

 

[Alexander Mundy]

The heart of the matter though is where does the electricity come from to charge the batteries and what are the environmental and energy costs associated with making and disposing of the power train including the battery? I had an uppity neighbor (you know the kind) with a hybrid that was so proud that he wasn't polluting the environment like I was until I pointed out that his car was actually coal powered and put him onto finding out what mining, processing, manufacturing, etc. is involved and what is involved in recovery. He doesn't speak to me much anymore.

 

[Steamer861]

There is a lot of advancement in battery technology but still not ready for prime time for cars.

You sure about that? Imagine this Car with a replaceable battery! unlimited range

 

[awsum140]

That's exactly what I'm saying, at the moment "vaporware", imagine isn't being built, yet.

 

[Steamer861]

The heart of the matter though is where does the electricity come from to charge the batteries and what are the environmental and energy costs associated with making and disposing of the power train including the battery? I had an uppity neighbor (you know the kind) with a hybrid that was so proud that he wasn't polluting the environment like I was until I pointed out that his car was actually coal powered and put him onto finding out what mining, processing, manufacturing, etc. is involved and what is involved in recovery. He doesn't speak to me much anymore.

It don't have to be coal fired power generation! it could come from wind farms, solar, good old fashion hydro dams, nuclear, there are a multitude of cleaner energy sources

 

[Steamer861]

That's exactly what I'm saying, at the moment "vaporware", imagine isn't being built, yet.

This Car is real! it has it's limitations, but I'm offering a solution

 

[BillW50]

Slight flaw discovered in first green automobile.

 

[KTMRider]

This Car is real! it has it's limitations, but I'm offering a solution

You're offering a specific solution that would fit a specific situation. Yes, there's quite a few electric cars on the market but they're far from mainstream, wouldn't you agree? How many people do you know that drive electric only cars? I have a LOT of car guy friends and only 1 has tried with a Volt. He spent $25 on gas for that car last year commuting ~30 miles a day. I don't know what his electric bill was though.

There are new technologies coming up but the 2025 timeframe is a bit agressive.

The P90D has an msrp of $108,000usd. There are MANY other cars I would choose in that price range before a Tesla, screw the environment . Now the Model 3 is a better example at msrp $35,000usd but won't be available until late 2017 and they're already all sold out (google ludicrous mode )

 

[Alexander Mundy]

It don't have to be coal fired power generation! it could come from wind farms, solar, good old fashion hydro dams, nuclear, there are a multitude of cleaner energy sources

But here it is coal and we just added onto the Southwest power plant a couple years ago. I had a great chuckle when City Utilities announced that you could buy into a wind farm making it sound like if you paid a surcharge your electricity would be from the wind farm. Funny thing is that electricity just doesn't care where it came from or have a way to bypass my house and go to someones that bought into it and they certainly can't create a second power grid. It wasn't the idea that we need more environmentally friendly power sources, but that they made it sound like that by buying into it that your electricity would be from the wind farm. I kid you not, they made it sound that way to the gullible masses.

 

[Alexander Mundy]

The P90D has an msrp of $108,000usd.

So that grand I charged for wiring 2 recharging stations recently at an individuals house that is on the list for 2 of them is really a drop in the bucket.

 

[Steamer861]

You're offering a specific solution that would fit a specific situation. Yes, there's quite a few electric cars on the market but they're far from mainstream, wouldn't you agree? How many people do you know that drive electric only cars? I have a LOT of car guy friends and only 1 has tried with a Volt. He spent $25 on gas for that car last year commuting ~30 miles a day. I don't know what his electric bill was though.

There are new technologies coming up but the 2025 timeframe is a bit agressive.

The P90D has an msrp of $108,000usd. There are MANY other cars I would choose in that price range before a Tesla, screw the environment . Now the Model 3 is a better example at msrp $35,000usd but won't be available until late 2017 and they're already all sold out (google ludicrous mode )

The only reason there not main stream, is the inconvenience You have to keep it charged, then there's the range anxiety! Oh heck I can only go x # of miles till the battery is Dead!
Who in their right mind is buying into that? No one
Take that all a way with a replaceable cell & recharging stations, things would change Fast!

But here it is coal and we just added onto the Southwest power plant a couple years ago. I had a great chuckle when City Utilities announced that you could buy into a wind farm making it sound like if you paid a surcharge your electricity would be from the wind farm. Funny thing is that electricity just doesn't care where it came from or have a way to bypass my house and go to someones that bought into it and they certainly can't create a second power grid. It wasn't the idea that we need more environmentally friendly power sources, but that they made it sound like that by buying into it that your electricity would be from the wind farm. I kid you not, they made it sound that way to the gullible masses.

We don't have any Coal fired power generation here were I'm from.
We have Cogen stations that use natural gas, But there not as bad as coal.
I saw a YT video about the Carbon foot print of Electric Cars that are charged with Coal fired plants & there worse than Gas engines

 

[drmarble]

In Israel they were underneath the back seat. They use a wench like rig to get the bats in and out.

Do those battery wenches resemble the coffee wenches for which you are justly famous?

 

[mikepetro]

Do those battery wenches resemble the coffee wenches for which you are justly famous?

Not sure about that, but the locals can certainly charge a battery:

 

[mikepetro]

Just remember, many of them are very well trained:

 

[KTMRider]

So that grand I charged for wiring 2 recharging stations recently at an individuals house that is on the list for 2 of them is really a drop in the bucket.

I heard quotes up to $4000 for Tesla charging station installs at home. You need to adjust your rates

The only reason there not main stream, is the inconvenience You have to keep it charged, then there's the range anxiety! Oh heck I can only go x # of miles till the battery is Dead!
Who in their right mind is buying into that? No one
Take that all a way with a replaceable cell & recharging stations, things would change Fast!

We don't have any Coal fired power generation here were I'm from.
We have Cogen stations that use natural gas, But there not as bad as coal.
I saw a YT video about the Carbon foot print of Electric Cars that are charged with Coal fired plants & there worse than Gas engines

I was including the time to build the infrastructure to support electric vehicles. I know some cities have but most have not and you're up poop creek if you try to go between cities. That is why pure electric (w/no gas motor) has a very limited market.

The carbon footprint is much better now than it was when they first started to appear on the market (Prius, Insight, etc). I think it's only a few tens of thousands of miles (15k to 25k miles) to break even.

Not sure about that, but the locals can certainly charge a battery:

She can charge my batteries any time