Holy Sheep Excrement, Batman!hey, mike! katz is branching out to brooklyn - maybe, next stop: martinsville!
$21 for a sandwich!
$21 for a sandwich!
I hear ya brother, I barely have time to read and "like" posts on this thread.
iirc someone in that thread started questioning how cold res, static res and internal mod res variances effected temp accuracy. Later on more questions about temp offets when using NiFe wire on mods with only Ni and Ti profiles. Then questions about setting up a Ti dryburn profile to keep from overheating Ti.
The equations for each of those questions were posted along the way.
ETA: At any rate, if you learn to solve those equations you'll know more about TC than 99.99999999% of the world population.
Good luck my friend.
Yeah, the dog thinks it's too hot outside. He's smarter than I am though...I'm going out to put some herbicide on the encroaching English Ivy from the "wild, natural" area of my neighbors backyard. Some yutz planted it somewhere west of both of us and now it's slowly killing all the trees as it smothers them.
Temperature, right now, is 97 with a "feels like" of 97, the humidity is low for around here. At least I'll be in the shade.
Temperature, right now, is 97 with a "feels like" of 97, the humidity is low for around here. At least I'll be in the shade.
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The problem is a schlogged wick ie oversaturated in the morning. The answer is to turn your power setting up for TC.
Your coil temp is not hotter first thing in the morning, your coil just isn't able vaporize your juice into a fine mist because you're under powering it for that level of juice saturation. The finer the mist the more that incoming air can cool your vapor before reaching yo face. Large droplets of juice have more mass than a fine mist and will retain more heat on it's way up the chimney and can burn your tongue/lips.
So the answer is to turn your power high enough to accommodate schlogged wicks. 25% higher than what it takes to reach set temp in less than one second is my normal starting point.
So this very point is why I have never been an advocate of only using only enough power to reach set temp. The DNAs are so fast and accurate at throttling power up and down why not use it to its full capability? I hear that the DNA 200 and later offerings even have an algorithm which measures the speed at which temps are rising and begins to throttle power down before reaching temp to eliminate temp overshoot.
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Well the thought of putting off fixing my loose exhaust on my Jeep over took me. I keep the shop closed up because it always stays cooler in there but I had to open both overhead doors to move stuff around to get the Jeep inside. Even though it only took a half hour, by the time I was done it was as hot inside as outside, I was dripping wet from sweat. It's been cool up till now, going to take a couple more weeks of this hot weather for me to get acclimated. I'm not going to complain, it's far better then snow!!!
I'll try that and see how it works, but I keep the power at 50W, almost double what a normal vape uses.
At least it's a good sandwich
We just got a Five Guys, over 20 bucks for a burger fry & shake
Have to say the Peanut butter Shake is worth all of the 5 bucks it cost
Really? Hmmmm, is it possible you have a very slow air leak somewhere near the top of your tank? That would flood it overnight.
I don't think so, I only use the original and v2 mizer with the two post deck. I only had two times one of them has leaked and both times it was because I trimmed the ends of the wick too short and didn't have enough rayon sitting on the deck covering the juice feed holes.
I'll chime in, too. I use mostly Aromamizer V1s and never have a leak. In fact in the morning my first hit is always a little weak and comes on "full" by the third hit. I'm not running crazy power, 20 to 30 watts depending on the build, and temps around 400. The same is true of my Foggers, the first hit in the morning is always a little weak then gets to normal by the third hit. I attribute both to having a little more wick than absolutely necessary but then again I never have leak problems.
Yes, I've enjoyed myself that nerd-ish thread, proposing some crazy (and partly wrong) idea at that time (such as tweaking a TCR to compensate for static mod resistance, when there was no escribe at the horizon which provides a dedicated setting for that.
I too fell into the trap of thinking "linearly", so I hope you don't mind if I resurrect here the fundamentals, which I've come to use more frequently lately while fighting against the 75C that still doesn't want to behave as I think it should...
ASSUMPTIONS:
- I'll assume a constant (read: temperature independent) TCR, which is not really true but makes calculations easier. The concepts will be valid nonetheless
- Well, I don't seem to have a second assumption, but it seems I can't remove the bullet point list from the message, sorry...
I'm not a material expert. Just Engineering background, working in SW development. These are my considerations, any embarrassing error and/or mistake is my exclusive fault and I welcome anybody that will want to help me understand my mistakes and learn more.
The fundamental rule is that TCR "connects" the relative change of resistance to the change in temperature (expressed in C in my examples, to convert to F is enough to multiply whatever temperature difference comes out by 1.8, as the 32 offset gets canceled out since we're speaking about deltas).
It's that relative that trips up "linear reasoning", and I fell into the trap myself at the time.
In math (I swear, this is the ony formula you need):
dR/Rcold = TCR * dT
where:
dR = variation of resistance = Rfinal - Rcold
dT = variation of Temperature (C) = Tfinal - Tcold
In short: the variation of resistance relative to its cold (base) value is proportional to the variation of temperature, where the constant of proportionality is the (assumed constant, see assumption #1) TCR.
To make an example, let's assume a material has a TCR=100e-5 (you could relate this, with a certain approximation, to 316L which has a TCR of 83-92e-5, depending on where you read about it and what's actually in the alloy).
You can perhaps get a better hold of the formula thinking that the resistance will change by 10% every 100C (which is 180F as a delta):
dR/Rcold = 100*e-5 * dT = / substitute dT=100/ = 100*e-3 = 0,1 = 10%
That's pretty much all there is to it.
Now, coming to the effect on misread resistance, you use the same formula to estimate the temperature delta that the difference between the read and the actual resistance corresponds to:
dT = dR/(Rcold * TCR)
You can see that you have (Rcold * TCR) at the denominator, meaning that greater base resistances and/or greater TCRs will "absorb" to a greater extent any resistance misreading (dR), and that unfortunately there isn't anything linear in this formula when it comes to Rcold and TCR.
Using the same 100*e-5 TCR, that means:
dT = dR/(Rcold * 100)*e5 = dR/Rcold * 1000
Suppose I have a 0.809 cold resistance that is read as 0.815, it is like the resistance was already heated a bit, starting from 0.809.
How much?
dT = (0.815 - 0.809)/(0.809*100)*e5 = 0.006 / 0.809 * 1000 ~= 7.42C
Converted to F: 7.42 * 1.8 ~= 13.36F
So a mere 0.006 error on a 0.809 cold coil will cause a temperature offset of around 13F (and if that was a 316L coil, being its TCR < 100*e5, the error would be even greater)
OK, I lied, there was something more than just a formula, but you can appreciate they're just rewriting of the same basic law.
Hope I didn't bother anyone too much and that someone will find this somehow useful/interesting as I do.
I run my OG Aromas with power set to 75w in TC, they run at 420°f at around 60-65w depending on wicking. To get the draw I like I pitched the silicone afc rings, JB welded the two indirect air holes shut then drilled them out to .070" dia. The build in one is 2.8mm 7 wrap 24g Ti spaced coils and in the other 2.8mm 6 wrap 28g/36g SS Clapton coils. Both coil configs seem to be a good balance between flavor and cloud production for this fella.
YES, I remembered something! I think I've forgotten more than I ever learned.
Thanks for the refresher. Just for fun, can you plug in the numbers for SS (.00088 TCR) and a cold res that reads .015 low on a .25 ohm build and tell us how far off the temp would be.
Happens to me all the time. That's why I feel sometimes the urge to write down what I happen to "remember" at that point in timeYES, I remembered something! I think I've forgotten more than I ever learned.
Sure, I made a very simple app for my iphone just to be able to estimate temp correction on the fly... Yes I'm that nerd...
So for a 0.25 cold res that's read as 0.25-0.015 = 0.235, with TCR=88e-5
The corrispondent dT is about a whopping -122F!
Please remember that these are approximations, due to the assumed independence of TCR from temperature, and whatever else only a material expert could probably know.
But as a ballpark approximation, I'd say that for such a misreading you might be forced to crank up your set temperature somewhere around a 90-100F over what you would normally vape...
I gave thought to plugging two holes and opening two that would point directly at the center of the coils. What I've been doing is tighten the base good and tight to keep good connection with the mod, then rotate the body so two holes point at the center of coils and the other two holes point at the set screws in the posts. Periodically I'll rotate the post holes slightly one way or the other for a while so the coils get direct air flow distributed somewhat more evenly over the life of the coils, otherwise I'll get crud build up quicker on the ends of the coil.
Happens to me all the time. That's why I feel sometimes the urge to write down what I happen to "remember" at that point in time
Sure, I made a very simple app for my iphone just to be able to estimate temp correction on the fly... Yes I'm that nerd...
So for a 0.25 cold res that's read as 0.25-0.015 = 0.235, with TCR=88e-5
The corrispondent dT is about a whopping -122F!
Please remember that these are approximations, due to the assumed independence of TCR from temperature, and whatever else only a material expert could probably know.
But as a ballpark approximation, I'd say that for such a misreading you might be forced to crank up your set temperature somewhere around a 90-100F over what you would normally vape...
For calculation purposes would it be more accurate to use a TFR value at a given temp from the escribe csv that you're using than the TCR value for a material type?
Neither of my OG Aromas had the airholes aligned with the center of the coils, more like 25° off. I fixed that by sanding off a little material from the bottom of the tanks with some 300grit sandpaper. I put the sand paper on a glass tabletop and rubbed the tank on it until it aligned correctly when screwed back onto the deck base. It only took about a dozen light strokes, maybe just 1-1/2 thousandths of material removed.
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I think so, but I have to think a bit on how that has to be done, since that simple formula can't probably be used at it is.
I'll give it a thought...
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