Depends on the vintage of the gear it was run on too... I've had junk people wanted reloaded from scratch that took most of the day until it was done with service packs and updates.
No need to do it on hard drives on a regular bases either. All it causes is excessive wear and tear for nothing. Windows doesn't unnecessarily fragment your drives. It writes them sequential whenever possible. I used to defrag once a year. Wrote down boot times, program load speed, and data read speed tests before and after. And after the speed difference wasn't noticeable by any human being. I don't know why Microsoft forces it down our throats.
Sure it does for every build change on a 16GB Intel Optane machine. 3 of 4 of my Windows 10 machines has such a beast. Some call it a HD/SSD hybrid. I call it a demon from the gates of hell.
After a build upgrade, I believe the SSD Optane memory is reset and cleared, and now the machine will be slow as molasses for a day or two. I see this all of the time. Then it is back up to speed again. It's a huge PIA during upgrades and cloning. And it is all thanks to Intel and Microsoft for looking out for you.
Yes of course. And they start rushing it when your build nears end of support like they're doing to build 1803 right now. Which support ends at the end of November. Like I give a rat's behind about Microsoft's useless support.
Oh please... HP Diagnostic shows everything at 100%. The problem is Windows 10. It thinks it is looking out for you, but it isn't. It is causes excessive wear and tear on the hard drives. Excessive CPU use and fan use. It even woke up 3 of my wireless Vizio speakers during the updating... what the hell was it polling them in their sleep for?
Yes you excess it at the Command Prompt by typing "mdsched.exe".
Yes MemTest86 and MemTest86+ have been around for decades. And I always use them when I suspect memory problems. Although it is often faster just by swapping the memory out for a known good set instead. Then you run into that occasional brand that won't play nice with another brand, but will play well with others.
I bought this $500 HP computer to just use it say for 10 minutes every couple of months. But I see Windows 10 doesn't play nice under these conditions. You must run them 24 hours before you want to use it for 10 minutes for every couple of months. So after 12 hours of frustration, it is back with build 1803 like I started with and running well again. Why can't Microsoft leave well enough alone?
Well here we go;
WINTER STORM WATCH REMAINS IN EFFECT FROM SUNDAY MORNING THROUGH MONDAY EVENING... HEAVY SNOW AND MIXED PRECIPITATION POSSIBLE. TOTAL SNOW ACCUMULATIONS OF 5 TO 9 INCHES
WINTER STORM WATCH REMAINS IN EFFECT FROM SUNDAY MORNING THROUGH MONDAY EVENING... HEAVY SNOW AND MIXED PRECIPITATION POSSIBLE. TOTAL SNOW ACCUMULATIONS OF 5 TO 9 INCHES
Unfortunately the first wave hit us just before Thanksgiving and the second wave is coming today.
...WINTER STORM WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT FROM 3 PM THIS
AFTERNOON TO NOON CST SUNDAY...
* WHAT...Heavy mixed precipitation expected. Total snow
accumulations of 10 to 13 inches and ice accumulations of a
light glaze.
No need to do it on hard drives on a regular bases either. All it causes is excessive wear and tear for nothing. Windows doesn't unnecessarily fragment your drives. It writes them sequential whenever possible. I used to defrag once a year. Wrote down boot times, program load speed, and data read speed tests before and after. And after the speed difference wasn't noticeable by any human being. I don't know why Microsoft forces it down our throats.
Sure it does for every build change on a 16GB Intel Optane machine. 3 of 4 of my Windows 10 machines has such a beast. Some call it a HD/SSD hybrid. I call it a demon from the gates of hell.
After a build upgrade, I believe the SSD Optane memory is reset and cleared, and now the machine will be slow as molasses for a day or two. I see this all of the time. Then it is back up to speed again. It's a huge PIA during upgrades and cloning. And it is all thanks to Intel and Microsoft for looking out for you.
Yes of course. And they start rushing it when your build nears end of support like they're doing to build 1803 right now. Which support ends at the end of November. Like I give a rat's behind about Microsoft's useless support.
Oh please... HP Diagnostic shows everything at 100%. The problem is Windows 10. It thinks it is looking out for you, but it isn't. It is causes excessive wear and tear on the hard drives. Excessive CPU use and fan use. It even woke up 3 of my wireless Vizio speakers during the updating... what the hell was it polling them in their sleep for?
Yes you excess it at the Command Prompt by typing "mdsched.exe".
Yes MemTest86 and MemTest86+ have been around for decades. And I always use them when I suspect memory problems. Although it is often faster just by swapping the memory out for a known good set instead. Then you run into that occasional brand that won't play nice with another brand, but will play well with others.
I bought this $500 HP computer to just use it say for 10 minutes every couple of months. But I see Windows 10 doesn't play nice under these conditions. You must run them 24 hours before you want to use it for 10 minutes for every couple of months. So after 12 hours of frustration, it is back with build 1803 like I started with and running well again. Why can't Microsoft leave well enough alone?
12 hours? Me thinks if you had kept a more frequent updating regime you would not be dealing with such a large and intrusive update. Also highly suspect you are dealing with degrading or poor performing hardware. But that is just a suspicion for I have no idea how many updates you were trying to work with.
This year alone I’ve conducted 88 Windows updates on my main system. No idea how much time was invested, for they were all so short I did not find them to be problematic. When Windows prompts me for an update, if I am busy, I reschedule. If not, they are usually done by the time it takes me to go grab a drink and return to my desk. The large 20GB 1903 update that was pushed back in May took roughly 30 to 35 minutes, 25 minutes of which was just downloading it on a 100Mps connection.
There are many documented tests that prove performance degradation with fragmented hard discs. MS is not forcing anything, they are dealing with a known issue due to the design of mechanical hard discs. By defragging once a week (that is the default schedule), then fragmentation becomes less of a problem. By using a fragmented disc you are also causing excessive wear – the actuator has to move more frequently to find the necessary data blocks. I have no idea which practice is more damaging, but suspect wear from both to be equal.
As for Intel Optane – it speeds up communication between Disc, RAM and or CPU by caching the most common read/write processes. Updating a computer could very well overwrite such processes, therefore wipe the Optane cache forcing it to learn the common processes again. That is the downfall of using a cached Disc implementation and no OS can prevent this.
I fail to see how Windows causes any more wear and tear than any other operating system. If mechanical hard discs are a common point of failure (which they are), all OS are susceptible. Every OS needs to read/write and do so constantly. Apple and Linux systems are not void of hardware failures and or degradation.
Outside highly dependent CPU utilization software, excessive CPU use is down to how well you maintain your computer. As I type this, I currently have 92 Windows only processes loaded, combined they account for no more than ~0.5% CPU Utilization. In total I am running 238 processes according to Task Manager, CPU utilization does not exceed 5%. If you have unexpectedly high CPU usage, then you are either dealing with a buggy 3rd party software, which includes drivers, or a hardware fault.
No explanation as to why your Vizio speakers wake up – perhaps that is by design. When updating, Windows is still connected to a network, therefore still sending packets that could wake up a client. All depends on what processes are started and or stopped. I’ve had network clients wake up during a reboot of a computer. If suspicious, perform a network trace.
I also have a laptop that is rarely used, probably close to the frequency you are using your HP machine. I accept if it is not in use for a period of time I could be prompted for an update – as above I either deal with it at the time, or reschedule. Never have I had to deal with an update that took longer than 30 to 40 minutes, the majority of which is downloading large files should the update be of significant size. You can turn off updating should you choose – even manually initiate an update should you feel fit.
Sound like the storm we just got! A few day ago we got 29 cm of snow in one snow fall! It was a record for November! The previous record was 17cm.
It was wet heavy snow & it got cold right after, making a night mare scenario for the clean up! You had to break up the crust on top & underneath the snow was all wet & stuck to your shovel
I use WD40 on my shovel. Really....You had to break up the crust on top & underneath the snow was all wet & stuck to your shovel
Your lucky no one called the EPA on you!
Nowadays that could get you arrested for polluting the environment! It's just as easy to bang the shovel on the ground
.... that. WD40Your lucky no one called the EPA on you!
It's just as easy to bang the shovel on the ground
You guys who have snow blowers and gravel driveways, what do you think about these heavy duty shoes for the blower? Putting the blower on the JD yesterday I see the shoes are worn out again. The stock shoes only last two years, they wear right through, it costs me another $75 with tax to replace a pair. Also getting sick of the way they dig right into the gravel, the first few times I clean out I have to be very careful or I'll throw a ton of gravel out into the yard. What I've done for the past 37 years is the first few snow falls I leave about an inch of snow on the gravel, let it freeze up and then I had a solid base to work with and it keeps me out of the gravel. Looking for a better price yesterday I stumbled on these aftermarket HD shoes, much wider and thicker shoes, they look like they might be a solution, I have the materials in my shop to make these up, I'll just use an old pair of worn out shoes to weld the heavy stock to. Here's a pic I found, the little shoe is exactly like those on my blower.
Maybe you can weld on a carbide runner! A snowmobile ski use's them & there good for several thousand miles
Maybe you can weld on a carbide runner! A snowmobile ski use's them & there good for several thousand miles
I thought about those snowmobile runners but I don't know where I'd find pieces big enough and I'm afraid the heat from welding would hurt the carbide.
That reminds of a kid that was in my first year of machine shop, we were each given a carbide bit and were responsible for it, back then you ground your bit for the lathes, now you buy small cutters and toss them when they dull. Over the course of about half the class some of the kids had their bits come up missing, I never lost mine. That fall this kid was seen trying to silver solder carbide bits to a snowmobile runner, someone told the shop teacher, after class the teacher open that kids locker and found all those missing bits and the runner he had been working on. The next day when we walked into class those bits and runners were sitting on the teachers desk, the teacher made an example out of him in front of all of us, the kid got kicked out of class and lost his runners.
Last edited:
Naw... that is time spend updating and time spent undoing the mess the update caused combined. A More frequent updating regime? I figure I have to spend 72 hours per year, just so I can use it one hour a year. Yeah well, that won't work for me.
Naw... nothing wrong with the hardware, I guarantee it!
Maybe the manufacture made the wrong choice of matching up the components, I'll give you that. But they mostly do that anyway. And these are the so-called experts? 
Great for you. My days of free beta testing is over. I am retired and I only run well tested software nowadays.
Which is obviously only half truth. Because individual use it could go either way. The way I use a computer, defragging does not benefit it. Plus others have noted they too don't benefit from such practices. While others claim they need to do so on a weekly bases.
Since Vista and newer, sure they do. As they setup a schedule from the start to routinely defrag your hard drives. And the only times my hard drive reaches critical temperatures is during updates and defragging.
How is the drive getting fragmented if you didn't change anything? It doesn't happen. It only happens when you create and delete files all of the time and those people benefit from defragmenting. And if you have plenty of disk space, Windows will automatically use the wide open space to write sequentially instead of filling in all the little spaces all over the place.
Yes well it is very popular on many budget machines since they save a few bucks. I say why bother?
Really? Well a group of us was trying to reduce Windows XP unnecessarily writing to the drive back in 2008. As SSD were a new thing back then and reducing the writes would increase their longevity. So I had an utility monitor and log all disk writes. And it was very shocking! XP at idle was still doing on average 4 to 6 writes per second. On a DOS machine, this would be zero per hour.
And in the course of the day, this would add up to like 6GB worth of writes that you don't even need. I'd call that extremely excessive since XP alone was that size. Since the goal was to reduce writes to the SSD down to nil, I had my work cutout. Got rid of the pagefile, stopped Windows from updating last access time stamps, etc. I got it down to like 400MB worth of writes per day.
And those I redirected all writes to a sandbox environment on a RAMDisk. So I achieved my goal of zero writes to the SSD per day under Windows XP. And man did that thing ran at lightning speeds. Plus it is now virus proof to boot. And I am sure Windows 10 even writes more excessively.
Naw... it normally has nothing to do with how you maintain your computer. It's the workload of the OS plus the workload of the applications. It's like matching the right engine for the car. Like it doesn't make sense to throw a VW bug engine in a limo, now does it? But manufactures do it all of the time and Microsoft still sells them Windows licenses.
Take my two Dell ST (tablets) for example. They put on Windows 7 and matched it up with an Atom Z670 processor. Sure it boots fast enough thanks to the Intel 128GB SSD. But my gawd man! You can't do anything for the first 15 minutes since the CPU is pegged at 100% all of that time. Sure I hacked away at the OS trying to reduce the CPU workload. But I only could do so much since the OS' core is really overwhelming for that kind of processor.
Oh I know. Because Windows is nosy and the Vizios doesn't wake up from sleep on the network unless you address them individually. I never used them with that computer and I can't think why I would want to either.
Yeah well most updates take a second or two. How would I know it wanted to reboot to install build 1903? The 20GB whopper that I'll just have to uninstall anyway.
Got 13 inches already and it shows no signs of stopping.
With a snowmobile runner, there's a grove milled into the steal & the carbide is just tacked in. Old runners should be easy to find & the carbide is usually in tacket, it's the steal that wears out.
Got 13 inches already and it shows no signs of stopping.
Oh boy... Just started with the freezing rain here, they are out salting the roads. I can see Rt 81 from here, the traffic is lite and they're going slower. Not looking forward to this, guess I better get out to the shop and do something with those runner, sounds like I'll need the snow blower within the next 24 hours. The two garages in the village that have tow trucks will be raking in the coin, they get a lot of calls for Rt 81 during the winter, I'm waiting to hear the Fire whistle go off. We are hunkered down and staying home for the day, Mama is upstairs pulling Christmas decorations out of storage, I guess it's a good day to get that done.
Similar threads
- Locked
