exploding batteries

[Chief-A-Lot]

I cut and pasted this straight from the horses mouth on the TW forum...

"this was a battery problem it may be that the batteries i was using were in fact unprotected cr2s being sold as lifepo4s please understaind that 6volt vaping is safe with lifepo4s and protected 123s this is a one in a million deal and my lawer and i will get to the bottom of this please i didnt tell my story to scare people away from vaping i will continue to vape the damage that happened to my face jaw and teeth is still less than the damage done to my lungs from those cancer stickes i used to smoke and this is a isolated incedent there are thousands of people using these batterys with no problem at all."

As the victum states the batteries in question were infact unprotected CR2's...

 

[Blaze]

I cut and pasted this straight from the horses mouth on the TW forum...

"this was a battery problem it may be that the batteries i was using were in fact unprotected cr2s being sold as lifepo4s please understaind that 6volt vaping is safe with lifepo4s and protected 123s this is a one in a million deal and my lawer and i will get to the bottom of this please i didnt tell my story to scare people away from vaping i will continue to vape the damage that happened to my face jaw and teeth is still less than the damage done to my lungs from those cancer stickes i used to smoke and this is a isolated incedent there are thousands of people using these batterys with no problem at all."

As the victum states the batteries in question were infact unprotected CR2's...

I understand that, the question was where to get/what to get. I think I'd have to absolutely agree on the vent ports (was unaware that the BB/SB didn't have them, and will not buy one until they do), ANY device, whether it be a PV, a gizmo, or even a child's toy that doesn't have a way to vent gases in the case of battery venting/failure is a "pipe bomb" waiting to happen. Didn't mean to give the impression of fear, and don't want to start any, just a little more "research" into the right PV/batt combo is in order.

 

[Chief-A-Lot]

I understand that, the question was where to get/what to get. I think I'd have to absolutely agree on the vent ports (was unaware that the BB/SB didn't have them, and will not buy one until they do), ANY device, whether it be a PV, a gizmo, or even a child's toy that doesn't have a way to vent gases in the case of battery venting/failure is a "pipe bomb" waiting to happen. Didn't mean to give the impression of fear, and don't want to start any, just a little more "research" into the right PV/batt combo is in order.

I own a BB and the vents are in (around) the switch... I JUST took the top off and blew into it and there is a ton of air escaping out of it... So I guess a better question is... How safe are Mods EVEN if they do have a vent... However, all the stories Ihave read about batteries Blowing have been unprotected stacked ones... Not sure if you will find what your/were all looking for... If infact the batteries the man was using were protected/Non-explosive then I guess were all playing Russian Roulette...

 

[fragger56]

I own a BB and the vents are in (around) the switch... I JUST took the top off and blew into it and there is a ton of air escaping out of it... So I guess a better question is... How safe are Mods EVEN if they do have a vent... However, all the stories Ihave read about batteries Blowing have been unprotected stacked ones... Not sure if you will find what your/were all looking for... If infact the batteries the man was using were protected/Non-explosive then I guess were all playing Russian Roulette...

Well the point of the vent is to prevent the enclosure from blowing up, if you have a battery failure and they leak or vent gas, they will still leak out the battery case vent.
But if you ask me, I'd rather have singed fingertips or have to rinse some battery acid off my hand than have a metal tube blow up in my mouth.

Really though, the best place for a vent on most designs IMO is the bottom of the battery container, as having a loose power button as a "vent" could mean battery acid/hot gases being sputtered out near your face rather than going somewhere less vital.

Anyway, if you are using batteries from a reputable supplier, there should be nearly 0 chance of a battery detonation, as the batteries are required to have overpressure vents in them (typically you can see the vent around the positive terminal, they are those little holes). They vent well before enough pressure can be built up to make the batts explosive, making a worst case scenario of having your battery mod make a hissing sound and get rather warm as the batteries cook.

Now if you are running relabeled or counterfeit batteries you may have a problem, as they may not have working safety vents, which would make the batteries themselves potentially explosive, and the only protection you would get from the batt case would be if it was made of metal and strong enough to resist the force of the batts going off...

Anyway, basic rule on Lithium batts, ALWAYS pay a bit more and get name brand batteries cause seriously, why would you want to risk blowing up whatever you are using said batteries in just to save $2.

 

[Blaze]

Anyway, basic rule on Lithium batts, ALWAYS pay a bit more and get name brand batteries cause seriously, why would you want to risk blowing up whatever you are using said batteries in just to save $2.

And this being the original question. Can someone suggest a few "brand name" batts? And where is a good place to get them? The only place I've really seen (altho, haven't looked that hard...yet) is Battery Junction, but there's so many dang battery types/brands on there how is anyone supposed to know what kind/what name to get?

 

[Quick1]

As the victum states the batteries in question were infact unprotected CR2's...

Ummm, I read that whole thread (which included the quoted portion). The victim said he really doesn't have any idea what caused it.

He is speculating that it was defective batteries and speculating that the batteries may have been unprotected CR2's labeled as Lipo's...

Pretty serious event which is of great concern to a lot of people. We should be very careful not to read fact into speculations. I'm sure there will be a detailed analysis in preparation for the law suit. We should wait for that before jumping to conclusions.

 

[KonaNeil]

Like many here I bought a pair. I've been in touch with the dealer. They claim they have not heard from the poster but the posting was scary enough that they took the model off their site. They also told me the Excellerator batteries are made by Gold Peak. I've had dealings with GP. They are one of the largest battery manufacturers in the world with amazing high tech factories.

If the end user used a 3.7Volt charger all bets are off on the safety of LifePo4 batteries. We aren't designed to burn up or explode either but if you grab the wires on a power pole just right, your mother won't recognize what's left of you.

All of us using "mods" should get knowledgeable about batteries. The best places for info are those of the model airplane and flashlight aficionados. They aren't smarter than we are. They've just been playing with batteries longer.

Just to be sure, I charge my bats in the fireplace with the screen closed. Those of you in colder climates may need yours for other purposes.

 

[Iammoonie]

And this being the original question. Can someone suggest a few "brand name" batts?

i believe th original question was if i leave my battery on the charger after it achieves a full charge will it explode?

just sayin

 

[Krythis]

The pipe bomb theory is a scary thought. Ever since hearing these things can blow up I've thought of my Mini-Mag mod as a gun barrel. It's an aluminum casing with the weakest end being the circuit board and epoxy I have on the end. If the Li-Ions were to rapidly discharge the path of least resistance would be straight to my mouth...this puts a whole new meaning to those exploding cigarette jokes sold in party shops 8-o

I'm going to pick up a small metal drill bit later and drill some exhaust ports on the end facing away from my face. On the off chance one of these pop I don't want any chance I could loose an eye or have my carto blasted through my teeth.

 

[redrhino]

will my battery be adversely effected if it remains on the charger after it has achieved a FULL charge?

Not if you have a smart charger....

 

[Quick1]

All of us using "mods" should get knowledgeable about batteries. The best places for info are those of the model airplane and flashlight aficionados. They aren't smarter than we are. They've just been playing with batteries longer.

i believe th original question was if i leave my battery on the charger after it achieves a full charge will it explode?

just sayin

Not if you have a smart charger....

and there are different levels of "smart" in chargers. Like KonaNeil says, a bit of self education would be a good idea in this arena. It appears to me that much of the E-cig stuff is not main-stream. small businesses, imports, lots of re-branding, and basically unregulated. It's not exactly like picking something up at the local Wally World that has been completely idiot proofed. "you're gonna put your eye out with that thing son".

Some batteries have internal circuitry to protect from overcharge or charging at too high a rate. Some chargers have internal circuitry to protect from overcharge or charging at to high a rate. Some can detect the parameters of the battery and adjust everything accordingly. Some can detect the parameters of the battery and either charge or don't. Some assume the battery parameters and will charge/shutoff/etc correctly, provided that the battery is what it assumes it is. It's hard to find a charger these days that has no smarts at all -- but then again, some of this stuff is just not regulated. If you buy a charger that "does everything" for any and all batteries for $2 or $3 dollars, shipping included, it probably isn't quite as smart as advertised...

So... back to the OP's original question. What battery and what charger?

 

[Iammoonie]

It is th TW Tornado batt with the supplied wall charging unit

 

[cruisedoc]

My understanding is the Protege uses unprotected batts., HOWEVER, the Prodigy V2 uses CR123 batts, which I believe are protected. Is this info. correct? Thanks

 

[North Shore]

Prodigy V2 uses CR123 LifePo4 batteries, which are not supposed to fail in the same violent way as regular Lithium Ions, but may not have a protection circuit.

 

[North Shore]

Please note that yesterday the creator of the Mod known as the detonator (not kidding) had a battery explosion in the device while he had it in his pocket. According to him, the cause was accidental button depression and the unit stayed on, generic and unprotected CR2 batteries accidentally discharged, and then a loud boom. He has burned clothes and a nasty burn. Do a search you'll find it. I'm not supposed to mention other forums, I don't think.

 

[Quick1]

I have this vague impression that an ecig (at 6v) is going to be pushing the limits, if not exceeding them, with respect to the discharge rate for 3v batteries. CR2's etc. Anybody have the generic tech info on that?

Just in general... 3v 900mAh or whatever Li-Ion batteries. What is the typical "rated" discharge rate and what rate would your typical 510 atomizer be drawing? I assume there would be some margins there and short bursts tolerated much better than a sustained discharge?

 

[fragger56]

I have this vague impression that an ecig (at 6v) is going to be pushing the limits, if not exceeding them, with respect to the discharge rate for 3v batteries. CR2's etc. Anybody have the generic tech info on that?

Just in general... 3v 900mAh or whatever Li-Ion batteries. What is the typical "rated" discharge rate and what rate would your typical 510 atomizer be drawing? I assume there would be some margins there and short bursts tolerated much better than a sustained discharge?

IMO the use of ANY lithium based battery smaller than a 18650 for e-cig atty power is kinda crazy, as most CR2 and similarly sized lithium cells (not sure about the LiFePO4 batts, i think they aren't affected due to them having thermal runaway preventing characteristics) are typically rated at low discharge rates of 1-2c.
Most if not all attys pull somewhere from 2-3 A of current when driven in their "normal" operating range (a 2.5 Ohm low V atty= 3-4.5v nominal, 5 Ohm HV atty = 6-8V nominal) which for CR2 size batts would be a discharge rate of 2.5-4 C.

Now with "pulsed" usage where the atty isn't run for very long, the batteries dont get very hot and stay well within their SOA (safe operating area), but if you run them for extended periods or get a stuck switch, the small cells will quickly overheat and go into thermal runaway.
IMO the "stock" stick batteries (manual/auto batts) are even worse being that they are typically 200 mAh lipo cells, though they don't pose much threat due to their small size and the fact that they are lipo cells (would probably make a loud pop at worst)

Using smaller batts is definately a risk factor, though using 2 3v batts to drive an atty at 6v shouldn't be any more dangerous than using a single low capacity batt as long as the switch isn't held for extended periods but as 4x the power will be used (resistance is fixed, double the voltage=double the current which = 4x the wattage) the batteries will "hit the point of no return" much faster than if a single battery was used.

Larger capacity batteries have larger SOAs, smaller capacity batteries have smaller SOAs, protected batts are safer than unprotected.
Protected cells sometimes employ poly-fuses in addition to their over-discharge cutoff which can prevent them overheating.
Oh and yes, batteries typically handle "bursts" of higher than rated current draw fine, as long as they have sufficient time to rest or cool between "bursts" of power draw. Just don't run them continuously above their rated discharge rate for extended periods and expect them to last forever.

 

[solaar]

Referring to the thread title, the odds of a Li-ion to explode are still somewhere below 1:10,000,000. Then there are all those urban myths floating about that any and every battery can explode out of the blue, especially unbranded ones.

The perpretrators of those myths always fail to mention two things:
1. Many unbranded and branded batteries are manufactured in the exact same factory with the exact same materials and quality control. The only difference is that the brand logo is printed on one but not on the other.
2. The few reported cases where a Li-ion exploded are either knowingly or very likely to have been mishandled in one way or another, ie. left in the car in the hot summer sun for hours or otherwise overheated, dropped on the floor several times, short circuited etc.

The 'funniest' case I've heard was a bloke who carried a Li-ion in his pocket together with coins and other metal bits. Let's be realistic - that guy has been asking for his battery to explode.

 

[BigBaddBossyDogg]

(how come I don't have a button to "edit" my posts?)

Here's something that has made me chuckle for years. The PR person should have received a reward for this one. Years ago I had a LG smartphone. Their battery supplier had supply problems and had gone to a 3rd party that had delivered some defective batteries. In the recall notice was this gem:

"...reported cases of users experiencing rapid disassembly..."

lol.

That guy is either a lawyer or a politician.

 

[clownfish159]

Does anyone know if the kr808d-1 uses protected batteries?