exploding batteries

[Quick1]

Referring to the thread title, the odds of a Li-ion to explode are still somewhere below 1:10,000,000. Then there are all those urban myths floating about that any and every battery can explode out of the blue, especially unbranded ones.

The perpretrators of those myths always fail to mention two things:
1. Many unbranded and branded batteries are manufactured in the exact same factory with the exact same materials and quality control. The only difference is that the brand logo is printed on one but not on the other.
2. The few reported cases where a Li-ion exploded are either knowingly or very likely to have been mishandled in one way or another, ie. left in the car in the hot summer sun for hours or otherwise overheated, dropped on the floor several times, short circuited etc.

The 'funniest' case I've heard was a bloke who carried a Li-ion in his pocket together with coins and other metal bits. Let's be realistic - that guy has been asking for his battery to explode.

Well... we have had 4 cases of this with battery mods in the very recent past. All using 2x3v. I'm guessing that's WAY over 1:10,000,000. Admittedly a small sample size but tends to imply this application may make that probability somewhat higher.

So far, it seems that driving a regular atomizer with 2x3v in "burst" mode is pretty reasonable. Sustained maybe not so much but we don't turn these things on like a flashlight. Even if you were chain vaping I believe that you would be heating up the batteries fairly gradually. Probably slowly enough that there would be plenty of time for heat transfer through the casing of the mod to where you'd feel it in your hand well before it got to temperatures necessary for failure (assuming a non-defective battery).

From reading, with my limited knowledge, I still don't have a good grip on this "mismatched cell" business. Is that mainly in the context of charging? Or are there dramatic effects during usage? They always say that it's important to have multiple cells very close in charge, etc. During usage if one of your two cells was mostly discharged and the other mostly charged what is the effect? Intuitively (haha) I would expect the "pack" to behave like the least charged cell in it. Is that true? Is that all? Would you be overheating (rapidly) or stressing one or the other cell?

 

[WillyB]

Referring to the thread title, the odds of a Li-ion to explode are still somewhere below 1:10,000,000. Then there are all those urban myths floating about that any and every battery can explode out of the blue, especially unbranded ones.

The perpretrators of those myths always fail to mention two things:
1. Many unbranded and branded batteries are manufactured in the exact same factory with the exact same materials and quality control. The only difference is that the brand logo is printed on one but not on the other.
2. The few reported cases where a Li-ion exploded are either knowingly or very likely to have been mishandled in one way or another, ie. left in the car in the hot summer sun for hours or otherwise overheated, dropped on the floor several times, short circuited etc.

The 'funniest' case I've heard was a bloke who carried a Li-ion in his pocket together with coins and other metal bits. Let's be realistic - that guy has been asking for his battery to explode.

I don't believe that. This is China, were there is no respect for patents and many small outfits are also officially used to make products. The Detonator guy was using the unbranded blue CR2's from Ebay that folks in the past have specifically warned against using.

These are the one's he used, note the non standard naming.

I would say these are the real deal and are the only ones I'd use.

He also just received some of these and complained that the manufacturer lied because they aren't protected as it says on the batt. These also don't look right and although I may be wrong I can't see the same factory using a different shrink wrap and different naming, calling them CR2 instead of TR 15270's.

As far as chargers cutting off completely this is an often reported reported problem at the Candle Power forums as many standard (not the e-cig type) battery chargers (the often used Trustfire/Ultrafire models for one) don't cut off completely when the 'done' light comes on but continue to trickle, bad for Li-ions. They also tend to cut off at a higher than proper voltage (> 4.2V for 3.7V batts) that will shorten a batteries longevity over time. Many of the 2 bay chargers will cut-off at different volts, check them and use the lower one for one cell charging.

It also seems you don't have to pay a lot for a good charger, this one gets decent reviews at the Candle Power Forums.

AD-103 Multi-volt charger

The actual model number is HG-103W9V, they tend to cut off at about 4.18V and uses the correct CC/CV mode. It also charges NiMH AA batteries.

This one also get's good reviews.

Shekor Universal Lithium Ion battery charger RCR123 - 18650 - e-lectronics.net :

It certainly is a jungle out there.

 

[solaar]

Well... we have had 4 cases of this with battery mods in the very recent past.

If you mean modifications by 'mods' I could be devil's advocate and say 'improper use' which would most likely fall into the realm of 'mishandling' according to manufacturers.

Don't shoot the messenger though, I'm just going by the couple of reported cases of exploding Li-ion batteries in my country for the last 10 years or so, apart from a few purely anecdotal stories. We're only 7.5 million but with a fairly high annual battery consumption, more than one/year/person AFAIK. I reckon I'm not so far off with my ratio.

The media has a tendency, more recently perhaps also in light of all those immature 'experiments' on youtube, to overblow the problem with Li-ion batteries. Stories about exploding things sell...

On a side note, most of the reported cases where serious failures occurred and whole batches were recalled came from brand names (eg. Apple, Nokia, Toshiba). All those batteries were actually manufactured in China. Then again, I'm referring to the plausible sounding stories where batteries started bulging or in the worst case had a burnout. The number of explosions out of the blue, as in detonation with a big bang, is very very small relative to the number of batteries manufactured.

 

[Quick1]

If you mean modifications by 'mods' I could be devil's advocate and say 'improper use' which would most likely fall into the realm of 'mishandling' according to manufacturers.

"Mods" seem to be what the people here call the aftermarket power supplies/body's/battery holders with buttons, that are used with e-cigarette atomizers and cartridges. Replaces the low capacity pencil diameter batterys that come with most of them.

 

[solaar]

"Mods" seem to be what the people here call the aftermarket power supplies/body's/battery holders with buttons, that are used with e-cigarette atomizers and cartridges. Replaces the low capacity pencil diameter batterys that come with most of them.

Thanks for the info.

I'm not a technician but it seems plausible that it may be considered improper use if you use a device with a battery other than the one that was designed for it.

 

[Quick1]

Thanks for the info.

I'm not a technician but it seems plausible that it may be considered improper use if you use a device with a battery other than the one that was designed for it.

Ummm, these batteries are sold separately. They are not designed for any particular device. They are simply designed to a standard form factor, voltage, capacity, etc. Like a 1.5v AA battery for example.

 

[tedescr]

Strictly for below batts from tenergy www.

LiFePO4 Rechargeable Battery

• Extremely Safe/Stable Chemistry —High intrinsic safety , no explosion & will not catch fire under collision, over charged or short circuit. High thermal stability of phases up to 500C.
• Extraordinary Long Cycle Life -Best can up to 2000 cycle life, would be over 8 times life of Lead Acid and 3-4 times of Li-ion.
• Long Service Life —Around 5~6 years
• Environmentally Friendly Non-toxic, non-contaminating and No rare metal
• Wide working temperature range —From -4 F to 150 F (-20 C–+70C) Extremely cold and extremely hot weather will not effect its performance
• Fast Charge —Can be fully charged in a very short time ---2C fast charge within half hour

 

[Quick1]

What. You expect the mfg to say "batteries will occassionaly blow up but this should be a rare occurence"?

I'd be impressed with literature stating "Our batteries are designed to withstand a short circuit without venting".

 

[crashtestjeep]

Gallery

FYI-dunno much abt them, just saw them tonight

 

[tedescr]

What. You expect the mfg to say "batteries will occassionaly blow up but this should be a rare occurence"?

I'd be impressed with literature stating "Our batteries are designed to withstand a short circuit without venting".

Well an mfg can say whatever they want.. Until they have an issue and get sued. It does state no explosion even under a short circuit. I think if your smart with your batts, use name brand (Protected) and the correct charger you should be fine. For me if the PV gets really warm I would toss them right out. Just my thought that most likely you'd feel some real heat prior to explosion.

There was a PV vendor out there pushing unprotected batts because "the device works better" is what I was told.. Turned me right off.. and got a different brand of PV and batts.

The batts I noted are the ones I use exactly. Also it was mentioned the PV itself should not be totally sealed.. Mine has an opening in the back away from your face so air can flow. Just going by what I've heard....