F.D.A. Scientists Complain to Obama of 'Corruption'

[Surf Monkey]

You can call doctors until you're blue in the face and the vast majority of them will tell you to keep taking Tylenol. They're all deathly afraid of prescribing any CNS depressant drugs due to the chance that a patient develops a dependency. Never mind that a mild dependency on Codine or Demerol is infinitely preferable to long term, debilitating chronic pain.

 

[denec]

That's exactly what it is. I suffer from chronic headaches, punctuated by migraines. No doctor will prescribe me anything stronger than ibuprofen. "Drug seeker" paranoia is rampant in the medical world and driven by hysteria at the FDA. Pain killers like Codine and Demerol work great for my pain, but the only time I ever have access to them is when friends have surgery and give me a few (read virtually never.) It's asinine.

I am in the same boat...actually OTC pain meds are the worst for migraine sufferers because you just get rebound headaches

I am lucky though..I have a superb neurologist who prescribes me Tylenol Codeine 3

When i feel a migraine coming on, I take two pills, which is 625mg acetemphinon / 60mg codiene, and as loong as I take them in 15 minutes I kill the migraine.

i have tried every other preventative out there and nothing else works, in fact I had some bad side effects from other meds that are out on the market, some really and dangerous like imitrex, it amazing how the FDA will allow that, but will give a hard time about pain meds.


The interesting things is my neuro told me he is prescribing the Tylenol no.3 for codeine not for acetaminophen, he said that does nothing...it is the codeine that works.

he said if he can prescribe it straight he would but if i recall it is considered a level 2 and he would be in trouble. He said it is ridiculous, but he said that is the rules.


Did you know outside the US you can actually buy otc ibuprofen and tylenol with codiene and do not even need to go to the doctor? it not as strong as no.3 i think it only 12 mg but it better then nothing...i think in canada and europe you can.

 

[Surf Monkey]

Did you know outside the US you can actually buy otc ibuprofen and tylenol with codiene and do not even need to go to the doctor? it not as strong as no.3 i think it only 12 mg but it better then nothing...i think in canada and europe you can.

I do know that. I've spent some time in France, and I can get codeine there for my headaches. Works wonders. But some still get through. I take a beta blocker that works as a headache prophylactic and Imitrex (a triptan drug, very prone to rebounds) when attacks break through. It's an okay strategy, but I still need some kind of more generalized pain killer like codeine to complete the picture. Problem is, all the many doctors I've worked with just give me the stink eye when I ask and tell me to "keep taking Tylenol."

 

[OutWest]

That's exactly what it is. I suffer from chronic headaches, punctuated by migraines. No doctor will prescribe me anything stronger than ibuprofen. "Drug seeker" paranoia is rampant in the medical world and driven by hysteria at the FDA. Pain killers like Codine and Demerol work great for my pain, but the only time I ever have access to them is when friends have surgery and give me a few (read virtually never.) It's asinine.

the only one that works for my migraines (without going into heavy duty painkillers) is darvocet. Last I heard the FDA was talking about banning it, but dunno if they did or not. It's not the tylenol in it that works for me, it's the darvon. And, of course getting a doc to prescribe it is next to impossible. I have had one go ahead in the past when I told him that the only other way for me to kill the migraine is to take 8-10 extra strength advil or to take a few codeines. And, of course he lectured me about the risk of liver failure by taking that many advil, nevermind the fact he was initially telling me to just keep taking the advil. I knew the risk to my liver, that's why I was in there.

 

[Surf Monkey]

My experience exactly. Frustrating, isn't it?

 

[denec]

I do know that. I've spent some time in France, and I can get codeine there for my headaches. Works wonders. But some still get through. I take a beta blocker that works as a headache prophylactic and Imitrex (a triptan drug, very prone to rebounds) when attacks break through. It's an okay strategy, but I still need some kind of more generalized pain killer like codeine to complete the picture. Problem is, all the many doctors I've worked with just give me the stink eye when I ask and tell me to "keep taking Tylenol."

the only one that works for my migraines (without going into heavy duty painkillers) is darvocet. Last I heard the FDA was talking about banning it, but dunno if they did or not. It's not the tylenol in it that works for me, it's the darvon. And, of course getting a doc to prescribe it is next to impossible. I have had one go ahead in the past when I told him that the only other way for me to kill the migraine is to take 8-10 extra strength advil or to take a few codeines. And, of course he lectured me about the risk of liver failure by taking that many advil, nevermind the fact he was initially telling me to just keep taking the advil. I knew the risk to my liver, that's why I was in there.

When you say docs? are you seeing a general doc or a neuro who specializes in migraines?

I find a general doc will never prescribe anything stronger then advil 800mg

you really need a neuro who knows migraines and how to treat it..

 

[Surf Monkey]

I've been seeing both for years.

 

[OutWest]

My experience exactly. Frustrating, isn't it?

definately

I've been seeing both for years.

Likewise, and I've gotten better care from a D.O. that I see.

 

[martha1014]

I can understand why doctors don't order narcotics. I have migranes and after being treated for a couple of years with Demerol shots I developed and addiction. You don't want to go there it is horrible. I use Imitrex and Maxalt and alot of times I just suffer through it because I know what the alternative causes. 99% of the time a person taking taking prescrition pain meds for a period of time will develop an addiction. At the time every doctors I went to gave me pain meds. I think most doctors are aware of this and are hesitant to order them and of course the laws. You can order any pain meds you want over the internet without a prescription if you want it. Just be careful.

 

[martha1014]

Just one more thing, look at Michael Jackson. I think his death was due to prescription pain meds. Also look at Anna Nicole Smith and numerous other stars.

 

[Sar]

I do know that. I've spent some time in France, and I can get codeine there for my headaches. Works wonders. But some still get through. I take a beta blocker that works as a headache prophylactic and Imitrex (a triptan drug, very prone to rebounds) when attacks break through. It's an okay strategy, but I still need some kind of more generalized pain killer like codeine to complete the picture. Problem is, all the many doctors I've worked with just give me the stink eye when I ask and tell me to "keep taking Tylenol."

I am sure lawsuits against doctors have a lot to do with this too. I used to have a doctor many years ago who treated pain with ganglian blockade. He was the only one I knew about who did this openly. The problem? The procedure used medical ....... solution. People with debilitating migraines and pain would come to him because nothing else worked for them. Of course, this was years ago and "war on drugs" was at its ugliest so anything that had to do with ....... was a big no-no. Still is.

 

[denec]

Just one more thing, look at Michael Jackson. I think his death was due to prescription pain meds. Also look at Anna Nicole Smith and numerous other stars.

i cannot speak for michael jackson, i don't think we know the details on why he died..yet do we? toxicology report did not come back

as far as anna nicole smith, i forgot the details surrounding her death, but if i recall she was mixing so many prescription drugs, it was not just one painkiller

same thing goes for heath ledger, if i recall and i am sure someone can correct me, i am too lazy to look it up he was taking anti-anxiety meds as well as painkillers and sleeping meds becuase he could not sleep, and the combination was lethal and went into respiratory arrest, he also got multiple meds from multiple doctors, no single doctor would prescribe what he should have been taking not only that he should not have been taking them all at once in the dosage he was taking.

but you know when it comes to celebs...anything goes most times alcohol is also involved with the life they leave and illegal narcotics as well...you just don't know...like i said i don't know all the facts in the case but they leave a very luxurious life and usually get special treatment.


My point is prescription painkillers taking in the prescribed dosage is not lethal.

It is also very important when going to a doctor to tell him/her all the meds you are taking so he/she knows what to prescribe and how much. I use to be an EMT in NYC I am very familiar with overdosages, with prescription meds, most times it is really the fault of the patient and not the meds.

Now there are two types of patients, one is the legit patient the one we are talking about on the board like myself, outlaw, SM who have real pain and need these drugs to function, and there are others who are addicted and will do anything to get high.

Also the other is one who gets a prescription and says they are in pain and then sells them on the street it happens...


The real problem is we need these drugs to treat people who are suffering from pain, and the people who suffer the most are the ones who do not get it because of all the restrictions, and the people who abuse it, then there are corrupt doctors who actually will give out pain meds to anyone for a price...to the addicts..it sucks!


EDIT: forgot to mention some prescription meds which work great for pain have different levels of addiction thresholds, for example tylonol no.3 has very low addiction rates,

but there are others that do have high addiction rates, so the doctor has to know when prescribing what they are and how to prescribe and what condition it is.


that is why you do need a really good doctor who understands the needs of the patient and follows up

 

[LaceyUnderall]

the only one that works for my migraines (without going into heavy duty painkillers) is darvocet. Last I heard the FDA was talking about banning it, but dunno if they did or not. It's not the tylenol in it that works for me, it's the darvon. And, of course getting a doc to prescribe it is next to impossible. I have had one go ahead in the past when I told him that the only other way for me to kill the migraine is to take 8-10 extra strength advil or to take a few codeines. And, of course he lectured me about the risk of liver failure by taking that many advil, nevermind the fact he was initially telling me to just keep taking the advil. I knew the risk to my liver, that's why I was in there.

Well this is one instance where being a woman would be awesome for you then because I can tell you of a handful of women who are prescribed darvocet for PMS symptoms.

But as Sar points out later... this is just an extension of the "war on drugs". We have all seen the commercial with the drug dealer standing next to the pay phone, complaining that his business is down because kids are taking pain meds from their parents med cabinets and now have no need for weed.

When they started this "war" it did a couple of things: 1. Tightened up meds for those who really need them. 2. Pushed kids into looking for other ways to get high.

We didn't have a .... problem in the US until the "war on drugs". Now, we are even at risk of losing Sudafed! One of the best drugs for allergy/sinus problems you can find! But since they use it to make ...., all of us have to suffer.

 

[Stephaniems]

I have cronic pain from herniated disc's in my neck, and both parents have degenerative disc disease so I refused to have surgery on them, so I live in pain, doctors will not prescribe pain killers for my neck at all. So.... instead of risking addiction I just live in constant pressure and pain all the time. Yay for our medical community I think I'd rather be an addict then live in constant pain.

Been living with this pain since I was 19(was rear ended) I'm 31 now its never felt better only gets worse and worse.

 

[denec]

so latest news is FDA propsed to ban Percocet and Vicoden and lowering maximum dosage of tylenol to 650mg and lower maximum daily dosage

HealthScout-Consumer Health News, Information and Resources Updated Daily-Arthritis-FDA Panel Urges Ban on Vicodin, Percocet

So now people will need to find alternative ways for chronic pain relief

 

[LaceyUnderall]

so latest news is FDA propsed to ban Percocet and Vicoden and lowering maximum dosage of tylenol to 650mg and lower maximum daily dosage

HealthScout-Consumer Health News, Information and Resources Updated Daily-Arthritis-FDA Panel Urges Ban on Vicodin, Percocet

So now people will need to find alternative ways for chronic pain relief

So sad.

From the article.... "The 1,000 milligram pill should never be at the patient's discretion. It should only be prescribed by a physician," Teperman said. "If you took an entire bottle of Tylenol Extra Strength, three days later you would be in a coma and needing a liver transplant."

So now we have to make an appointment with a doctor to get Tylenol because someone seriously thought taking an entire bottle of Extra Strength Tylenol was on the "suggested use" label? What about those who have crappy/no insurance and a doctors appointment isn't a viable option? Guess we will have to find other ways to take care of headaches.

It's a good thing that marijuana is so readily available and easy to get without a prescription.

 

[Surf Monkey]

so latest news is FDA propsed to ban Percocet and Vicoden and lowering maximum dosage of tylenol to 650mg and lower maximum daily dosage

HealthScout-Consumer Health News, Information and Resources Updated Daily-Arthritis-FDA Panel Urges Ban on Vicodin, Percocet

So now people will need to find alternative ways for chronic pain relief

Don't mischaracterize it. The article clearly states that the FDA is concerned about "opiate combination acetaminophen products." They're calling for the removal of acetaminophen from Vicodin and Percocet. They're not taking narcotic painkillers off the market. They're going after acetaminophen specifically.

 

[denec]

Don't mischaracterize it. The article clearly states that the FDA is concerned about "opiate combination acetaminophen products." They're calling for the removal of acetaminophen from Vicodin and Percocet. They're not taking narcotic painkillers off the market. They're going after acetaminophen specifically.

article is pretty clear

TUESDAY, June 30 (HealthDay News) -- The popular prescription painkillers Vicodin and Percocet, which combine acetaminophen with an opiate narcotic, should be banned, and the maximum dose of over-the-counter painkillers with acetaminophen, like Tylenol or Excedrin, should be lowered, a U.S. Food and Drug Administration advisory panel urged Tuesday.



The dangers from use or abuse of Vicodin and Percocet may be even more concerning, one key panelist said.

"It seems to me that problems with opiate combinations are clearly more prevalent," Dr. Lewis S. Nelson, chairman of the FDA's Drug Safety and Risk Management Advisory Committee, said during a Tuesday press conference held after the two-day meeting.

Explaining the panel's 20-17 vote to ban prescription acetaminophen/opiate drugs, Nelson said, "There are many deaths that relate to problems with prescription opiate combination acetaminophen products, whereas the number of deaths clearly related to the over-the-counter products are much more limited."

they did not say they are taking all narcotics off the market but now less choices and many others are much stronger

 

[OutWest]

Personally, I think by taking these products off the market they'll end up with people taking even more tylenol (since they can no longer get stronger meds from doc) and having even more liver failure incidents.

 

[Kamanjah]

Doc took me off the combo pills (with tylenol or NSAIDs, not aspirin) years ago because of liver issues. Now I have pain relief and a normal liver. Fortunately, my doc believes no one should live in constant pain. I'm also fortunate that insurance covers the meds, because they're EXPENSIVE!!

For those of you with migraines, try the SolaRay homeopathic migraine tablets and feverfew - it helps. A lot. Usually.

Best,
K
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