Face Rash and E-cig.

[ronchinoy]

First off Ive read almost every post on this subject.
Most are closed so you cant add to them.

I think we need to nail this.
From reading the old posts at best there is a very vague consensus that this is caused by PG and that dropping to 70VG-30PG helps.
Then some guys said it was the VG causing this.

Most report the same areas. Nose, under the chin.
This has got nothing to do with stopping smoking.
If your 30-40+ and stop smoking your not going to brake out into acne or a rash. This is from many doctors.

My thoughts to crack this problem is to ask people what they smoking just before an out brake.
Any change in pg /vg ratio. Any change in flavor. What nic strength are they vaping when this happens.
What is the gear they use. i.e. lets solve this like a detective case for which we need more info.

Let me give an example
=============================================
First Symptoms.
Skin turns red. Area is nose, under the eyes, cheeks.
What triggered it. Going from 24 MG to 36 MG. Nicotine source MFS / WL / Local.
Flavor Apple Pie.
I feel this is caused by nicotine constricting the capillaries on your skin. Its almost like your skin is going to bleed.

Next Symptom.
Blister, skin flaking. Behind ears, upper lip, under chin. If you shave the problem is aggravated. And it can start on the cheeks.
What triggered it.
Was up late night testing flavors with high PG ratio.

Gear:
Itaste VTR / Sigeli with dripper. Single coil at 20 watts.

What works for me.
Stop vaping or vape pure VG no nic for a day or two. Use tropical cream. No china juice. It clears up in 48 hours.
Drink lots of water.

If there is a thread out there with a definite answer a link would be nice.
I feel it has a lot to do with Nic strength and PG. But that is just a wild non medical guess.
Funny thing it only happens on the face. I wonder why.

 

[Streptile]

I have a terrible case of face rash.

Redness, flaking and drying on the cheeks, bridge of the nose and behind the ears. I am vaping Logic cigalikes, which is a PG mixture with 12mg nic, I think.

I can't tell you what fixes it because I'm starting VG today, but I'll report back here in a few days.

I can tell you, this is a real, serious problem for some people, including me, so thank you for starting yet another thread on it.

 

[ronchinoy]

I think PG is to blame.
I also think some Nicotine Sources make it bad.
A quick test is to use PG on a dripper. You will brake out in a rash really fast. Because a dripper will over load your system with PG much faster than a carto.
Ive laid off the Dripper and Flavor testing and its cleared up. Try these two creams they have helped me in the past.
Candid or Iodine. Wash face in warm water. With sandalwood soap and warm water. And apply Alum stone to face after shave.

I also found that implementing a zero nic policy after 7PM helped in many way. Face swelling went down. Skin texture looks better. Sleep better. It hard to implement at one shot but start moving towards lower and lower to zero nic before you sleep.
Your skin will thank you for it.

 

[ronchinoy]

Some more tips for people suffering with this problem. If you notice that you are getting it on your upper lip. Easy fix. Stop blowing smoke out your nose.
Im not 100% sure about this. But by changing the way I blow the smoke out. Has an effect on how bad and where the rash is.

Try and exhale the smoke away from the face on your skin.
Ive moved away form PG to more and more VG but the rash remains.

I think you will notice flaking skin on your scalp also.

The info I need is does this problem have any co-relation to the Qty being Vaped. i.e. beyond a certain amount the body is just extracting the PG and VG thru the pores of your skin.

I already have proof. That you sweat smell changes based on the flavor your vaping.
Drinking lots of water is key to keeping complications down.

Feel that we need to crack this problem before the anti vaping brigade jump on it. Its a real problem. That needs a solution.
One thing is for sure. Never had it as long as I was sucking on those pointless 510 cartos. Which leads me to believe its directly related to e-juice and nic consumption.

 

[Void]

I cant get to deep into all variables when I was getting redness around my face. I can tell you that all I did was stop using the juice I was using which was Johnson's Creek smoke juice. To me it was the ingredients in it, after that never had an issue.

 

[KenRob316]

Wow, I thought I was the only one. I am so glad I found this thread. While I don't get the rash I do seem to be getting more "acne". Usually just a couple of "pimples" next to the nose or on my cheeks. I thought I was reverting to high school age and was going to need to invest in pimple cream again. It has gotten better since I have started just splashing my face with water and wiping off with a towel a few times a day. Also helps to keep me cooler on these hot summer days in humid as heck Iowa!

 

[Pictor]

I managed to stop smoking using the cigarette size batteries with pre filled cartridges ...and I liked them too.
6 weeks in, I got all the symptoms of PG sensitivity including a red rash on the centre of my face from chin to forehead and difficulty breathing.
I'd already realised that certain vanilla flavours gave me problems with swollen and bleeding throat & gums, so then getting the PG sensitivity was a pain.

I had to change over to clearomisers and VG liquid, and eventually progressed to larger capacity batteries and tanks. My problems went away ...but, the VG began to give me congestion that also causes breathing problems, sometimes quite severe. I get theophylline tablets from the chemist for when it's bad, and take one perhaps three times per week.
I don't inhale anymore and try to use as little as possible. I'm also reducing the nicotine and am down to an average of .4 now. Not sure how soon I'll reduce that though and won't push the issue ...don't want to go back over!

Hopefully I can carry on by being careful and only using high quality liquids as sparingly as I can.

 

[Katmar]

I managed to stop smoking using the cigarette size batteries with pre filled cartridges ...and I liked them too.
6 weeks in, I got all the symptoms of PG sensitivity including a red rash on the centre of my face from chin to forehead and difficulty breathing.
I'd already realised that certain vanilla flavours gave me problems with swollen and bleeding throat & gums, so then getting the PG sensitivity was a pain.

I had to change over to clearomisers and VG liquid, and eventually progressed to larger capacity batteries and tanks. My problems went away ...but, the VG began to give me congestion that also causes breathing problems, sometimes quite severe. I get theophylline tablets from the chemist for when it's bad, and take one perhaps three times per week.
I don't inhale anymore and try to use as little as possible. I'm also reducing the nicotine and am down to an average of .4 now. Not sure how soon I'll reduce that though and won't push the issue ...don't want to go back over!

Hopefully I can carry on by being careful and only using high quality liquids as sparingly as I can.

You have a smart plan in place. I hope you are able to continue with 4 nicotine without problems. Thank you for sharing.

 

[Pictor]

Well, a couple of months down the line, and I haven't reduced my nicotine any lower than 0.4mg, but that's OK - I'll take things as they come and reduce it if and when I feel comfortable with it.
I have however had the rash back on my face - same as before, and something like eczema or psoriasis patches. I had been adding 20% of a PG/VG liquid into 80% max VG ones, and the first problem I noticed was the rash, and that was followed by a rapid escalation of breathing problems.
After my earlier problems with PG when only using cig-size batteries & cartridges, I knew right away what had caused it, and I was having to take some sort of bronchodilator on a daily basis.

It does seem that every time a boost in PG use builds up to causing spells with difficulty breathing, it become more severe and more easily triggered ...just as an allergy will increase in severity with prolonged exposure to an irritant.

I've gone back to a mix of max VG and 100% VG liquids, and things are improving - but, every now and then, the smaller amounts of PG in most flavouring does seem to build up and give me a few days of uncomfortable breathing that needs medication to clear.

I don't think nicotine is to blame in any way in my case. I was using 2.4mg and 1.8mg when the first problem with PG happened, and now I'm using 0.4mg.
I know for certain that PG can give me serious breathing difficulties, as can certain flavourings (apple, lime, blackcurrant, etc. cinnamon and one or two vanillas), and VG can also cause me a fair bit of congestion.

Coming up to 11 months since I smoked a cigarette, I'm determined to continue, and will try hard not to inhale much and use as little PG as possible.

As things are, I couldn't stop because I know for a fact I'd smoke again, and it's no good being told to use a positive attitude ...that gets overridden when the little cigarette demon is tapping on the brain cells!

 

[Katmar]

So true about the positive attitude...lol.....

My suggestion would be to NOT inhale into the lungs. You can do a throat inhale or through your nose. The nicotine is absorbed there anyway, as it doesn't really make it to the lungs. Good luck and continue to keep us posted!!

 

[rolygate]

There are two different forms of skin issues / face rash that can affect us: the (1) quit zits and (2) intolerance issues.


1. Quit Zits
The quit zits are a less commonly-reported result of smoking cessation, and affect a very small number of people regardless of how they quit or what they do next. At a guess I'd say it's around 1 in 5,000 people. We get plenty of reports of it here as this is the largest smoking cessation forum in the world.

See:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...hen-quitting-tobacco-changing-ecigarette.html
-- then search a little way down the page for:
2. The Quit Zits


2. Intolerance and/or allergy
There are certain refill ingredients that can cause an adverse reaction in some people. It's very difficult to decide if any/all of these issues are correctly termed intolerance or allergy, so it seems safer to term them intolerance issues unless there is strong evidence to the contrary. This only affects a minority of people sufficiently to require any action - the vast majority of vapers can freely consume any amount of anything and everything without problem.

Here are the most likely candidates for blame in cases of intolerance, in order of frequency of reports where the offending agent was reliably identified:

PG
vanilla and cinnamon flavourings
citrus fruit flavourings
VG
existing meds
unrelated medical condition

These have all been reported at some time as being connected with issues thought to be vaping-related; and where the connection was definitely established, with face rashes and assorted skin issues such as rashes, dry skin or itching. It is not usually possible to work out whether the issue is primarily the main ingredient, or contaminants. Sometimes there is sufficient evidence that an estimate can be made - for example, some specific types of vanilla are known to cause problems for a small number of people.

It's important to remember that these issues only affect a small percentage of vapers - almost certainly less than 2%. However, a couple of things have to be taken into account here: the issue is often serious for the person concerned, especially since the main alternative is returning to smoking; and naturally, the problems these unfortunate vapers are experiencing will take up a seriously disproportionate amount of space on a forum. This is not a problem since part of the community's task is to find solutions, though it may unrealistically slant outsiders' perception of the reality.