Fair Pricing

[Can_supplier]

Both answers have some truth.

With just for example, only one hardware offering and a limited selection of juice you could have enough stock to get started with 10K.

Problems you need to overcome are, if you don’t nail the product that sells you don’t get a second shot. Also you need to overcome the bare walls syndrome of retail. That is if you walk into a store with a limited selection, even if they have exactly what you are looking for you feel less satisfied that you did shopping in a huge store with a bigger selection.

But then there is ignoring the whole internet game all together. One could start with a single kit which they sell to their friend for double. With that money buy 2 kits and so on. Two feet and a heartbeat. It’s the hard work method, but it can and has been done.

It’s no different than any other business. Many a person has become rich starting with nothing more than the shirt on the back. Others have started with an unlimited supply of cash, enough to ensure their success, only to blow it all.

My personal estimate, to enter the game on par stock and selection wise with the current Canadian retailers, a 30K investment or greater would be required. To enter the US game, I would personally want over 100K. Again that’s not to say it can’t be done for less, but you would need to approach it, doing something different than competing head on for the same customers with any less of an investment in my view.

Only common factor in any success, lots of hard work, that part will never change.

 

[dancingangela]

Trolling is based on content, not post count.

While there are a lot of trolls and schills that attempt to influence the forums, most folks are intelligent enough to make their own decisions based on said content.

Thank you oldsoldier, I was starting to worry that if I didn't start posting more frequently I might wake up to find myself living under a bridge (and while I do enjoy a nice Caribbean goat roti on occasion, I can't recall the last time I yelled at someone for trip-trapping over my head...except maybe once at the military guy who used to live in the apartment above me and who had to be at work for o'-dark-thirty every morning, but I wrote him an apology note once my coffee kicked in).

I started reading ECF a couple months before I started vaping (so probably around the beginning of April 2011), and over the months I've found ECF to be a helpful resource for when I wanted to know something about my new found love of vaping. I just didn't come across anything I felt passionate enough to post about until I started reading posts that were presenting a negative viewpoint on the vendor I hold dear. I will say that I have found it a bit disheartening to be compared to "trolls and rats" for simply expressing a countering viewpoint. It's been a rather unpleasant reminder of why I hadn't posted before and it leaves me feeling less than inspired to post in the future.

My apologies for deviating from the thread. I know this has been off-topic, but I felt like it was important for me to express this.

 

[Switched]

Thank you oldsoldier, I was starting to worry that if I didn't start posting more frequently I might wake up to find myself living under a bridge (and while I do enjoy a nice Caribbean goat roti on occasion, I can't recall the last time I yelled at someone for trip-trapping over my head...except maybe once at the military guy who used to live in the apartment above me and who had to be at work for o'-dark-thirty every morning, but I wrote him an apology note once my coffee kicked in).

I started reading ECF a couple months before I started vaping (so probably around the beginning of April 2011), and over the months I've found ECF to be a helpful resource for when I wanted to know something about my new found love of vaping. I just didn't come across anything I felt passionate enough to post about until I started reading posts that were presenting a negative viewpoint on the vendor I hold dear. I will say that I have found it a bit disheartening to be compared to "trolls and rats" for simply expressing a countering viewpoint. It's been a rather unpleasant reminder of why I hadn't posted before and it leaves me feeling less than inspired to post in the future.

My apologies for deviating from the thread. I know this has been off-topic, but I felt like it was important for me to express this.

The ignore feature is a wonderful little button

 

[Concat]

Trolling is based on content, not post count.

While there are a lot of trolls and schills that attempt to influence the forums, most folks are intelligent enough to make their own decisions based on said content.

I think he meant that people new to vaping are a lot less likely to be critical of prices, and thus defend higher prices from vednors that got them off analogues.

He wasn't very tactful, but I don't think he was suggesting these people were trolling...

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe someone reported their posts? Now let me see your war face!

 

[Crazy Canuck]

hammer dropped us crazy canucks make oldsoldier's life miserable I'm sure.

Hey now... I've only got my wrist slapped once

 

[mopar]

Hey now... I've only got my wrist slapped once

I've been tied to the chair, under the lamp and beaten with a pipe

 

[Concat]

I've been tied to the chair, under the lamp and beaten with a pipe

Now now... leave your love life out of this.

 

[dancingangela]

I think he meant that people new to vaping are a lot less likely to be critical of prices, and thus defend higher prices from vednors that got them off analogues.

He wasn't very tactful, but I don't think he was suggesting these people were trolling...

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe someone reported their posts? Now let me see your war face!

Thank you for the clarification, Concat, but I think my post may have been unclear (the whole quoting thing seems to confuse me sometimes). I didn't think oldsoldier was calling me a troll. Quite the contrary, I was referencing some posts made by others earlier in the thread to which (the way I understood it) oldsoldier was responding. It is quite possible that I misunderstood oldsoldier altogether, so I won't speak for him, but if I read him right then I quite appreciated his post.

Regarding the point that newer vapers may be less critical of price, I can certainly see how that could happen. The difference in price from analogues is pretty significant, even if you go from smoking the cheaper brands to paying higher vaping costs. I imagine for a lot of people the effect would be kind of like reverse sticker shock. This wasn't the case for me, but I don't constitute a very diverse sample group by myself (random, however? maybe). I've already posted on what I base my choice in vendor on, so I won't rehash, but you raise a valid point that's certainly worth thinking about.

 

[kanadiankat]

I think he meant that people new to vaping are a lot less likely to be critical of prices, and thus defend higher prices from vednors that got them off analogues.

I couldn't disagree more. The screaming majority of human beings will always shop at the lowest price point when discovering something new. We all do it.

I purchased my first cell phone on what I thought was a deal from heaven itself. Patted myself on the back all the way home - told everyone I met and was happy for about 2 weeks. Then I got it - my incredibly heavy cell phone - larger than a regular land phone with zero features - was worth I paid for - if that. Same with my first computer (and yes, even my first pv).

It's only a small handful of people who will walk into the other place with the higher prices and paid salespeople and ask the question: "why is your store different from all other stores".

Newbies might end up paying more for their stuff - but seldom ever on purpose and I think it's unlikely they would come up with a reason to defend higher prices.

 

[Can_supplier]

Regarding the point that newer vapers may be less critical of price, I can certainly see how that could happen.

The question is, what is a higher price?

Can we compare an apple to an orange and call one higher priced that the other? Or are they 2 different things?

Same thing must be considered with e-cigs. The most obvious price difference is between everything this side of the ocean and China. Does that mean everyone who shops outside of China is “new to vaping and less likely to be critical of prices”, or maybe other factors such as service are the value they get from paying more?

I don’t know about you, but price isn’t always the first factor I look at. Something as simple as grocery shopping. I can buy all the ingredients to make a pizza, or I can buy a pre-made one at a higher price. I have never baked my own.. Back in my smoking days I could buy a pack at the gas station near my house, or I could drive across town to get a cheaper pack. They knew my brand at the gas station.. How many people buy a Tim's coffee for a buck and change on their way to work, when they could brew the same or better at home for 10 cents?

Shopping purely on price or the lack thereof isn’t necessarily a sign of being new, as I feel I was getting value in the higher price I chose to pay.

I'm a frugal guy too BTW

 

[wood]

by trolling he is insinuating that u were the supplier under a fake account to promote his own company to my understanding
i am not say you are a troll just saying what i get from it
trolling is also people who spam and cause problems in chats or forums also but in this case im pretty sure my first statement was what was being implied
im not saying any one is doing anything here just my understanding lol

 

[dancingangela]

Thanks wood, I think I may have been a little sensitive to the idea that someone would call me a troll (and if anyone were to see me right now, posting from my bed, wearing ratty pj's, with last night's makeup smudged half way down my face and my hair sticking up and out in six different directions, they might understand my sensitivity. I am rockin' a look, at the moment, that is rather reminicent of a troll doll from the 80's). This whole thing has been a lesson for me in how easily things can become enflamed and how, without intending to, a person (such as myself) can get caught up in defending a point without really hearing the other side. Even without the wicked bedhead, I can understand how that could make someone look like a troll. Hopefully this has been a lesson I can carry with me in my comings and goings on ECF .

 

[Switched]

Thanks wood, I think I may have been a little sensitive to the idea that someone would call me a troll (and if anyone were to see me right now, posting from my bed, wearing ratty pj's, with last night's makeup smudged half way down my face and my hair sticking up and out in six different directions, they might understand my sensitivity. I am rockin' a look, at the moment, that is rather reminicent of a troll doll from the 80's). This whole thing has been a lesson for me in how easily things can become enflamed and how, without intending to, a person (such as myself) can get caught up in defending a point without really hearing the other side. Even without the wicked bedhead, I can understand how that could make someone look like a troll. Hopefully this has been a lesson I can carry with me in my comings and goings on ECF .

... to much information!

 

[wood]

... to much information!

Laughing my effing a off

Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

 

[Cokeybill]

All kidding aside(although it is fun)...I still can't imagine that a start up could run $30Gs. I know the start up is a certain amount, but the overhead is considerably low. Considering the fact that there is no brick and mortar(assuming a good garage or basement room is used), as one member mentioned that a partner or 2 could divide time and divisional areas to spread the work features and initial cost(ie-juices,hardware,lab works,stationery,adverts(ECF where else) and maybe an accountant). DIY supplies sell for themselves. Yes, hard work is the main player. Anyone thinking about sitting back and watching orders come in and out should not apply. Maybe I'm a bit out of sync here, but I'm not that far out. I'm sure vendors would disagree, but you don't have to supercede the next guy to succeed in the juice biz, just produce good juice or supply someone else's good juice. As far as modders are concerned, I'm sure fronting their mods are a policy if the modders agree to it. Seeing that it does take time to create their amazing PVs. I just don't see $30gs, sorry JMHO.

 

[Can_supplier]

I still can't imagine that a start up could run $30Gs.

I’ll help you see it

15 flavors x 4 strengths of each x 2 options of base x 33 bottles of each required to get the lowest price = 3960 bottles

I’ll leave you to figure out your cost per bottle and times that by 4000 for just the juice. Then there is hardware

Yes you could start with far fewer bottles, one even, but that wasn’t what we were talking about with the 30K figure, we were talking about opening up on an equal level to existing suppliers. Also any fewer bottles the higher the cost of goods and you are going to be cutting into your margin (making less than all the other players) because you are not ordering in volume. Then you have to worry about customers, if you don’t have their strength in their flavor they will go to someone who does.

Could also go the other way. Someone could open up with an investment of 1 million, become the Home Depot of vaping and make the 30K investment inadequate.

What it comes down to is there isn’t a set setup price for any business. Business is what you make it with what you have. Just all too common error in startups, have done it myself in the past, is to underestimate your startup costs making for a very stressful uphill battle.

Please don’t think I am trying to scare anyone out of the business to protect my own. The market here is huge and untapped, there is room for many more. I actually find the more stores that open, the more vaping is promoted and the more the market is exposed to the product to the product, promoting it for all of us. Just if you are interested, sit down and come up with a good business plan which outlines your expenses.

 

[Switched]

You don't scare me - because my daddy is stronger than your daddy

If it was as simple and and cheap as some folks proclaim, everybody would be in business.

 

[Cokeybill]

Well I figure this will make 70000ml of juice to start. And this is not at wholesale prices. This will make a little more than 2300-30 ml bottles on average with 20mg nic on average. The bulk of the cost.



$1,054.00 flavor
$720.00 30 ml bottles
$1,620.92 35000ml/vg/20mg
$1,620.92 35000ml/pg/20mg
$5,015.84

2300 x $18 =$41,400 plus tax?

Not a direct charge at any vendor and their profit line here. Just a statement of some figures. I don't want anyone to think that this is pure profit because with this is assorted costs that are not seen.

 

[CellWho]

Well I figure this will make 70000ml of juice to start. And this is not at wholesale prices. This will make a little more than 2300-30 ml bottles on average with 20mg nic on average. The bulk of the cost.



$1,054.00 flavor
$720.00 30 ml bottles
$1,620.92 35000ml/vg/20mg
$1,620.92 35000ml/pg/20mg
$5,015.84

2300 x $18 =$41,400 plus tax?

Not a direct charge at any vendor and their profit line here. Just a statement of some figures. I don't want anyone to think that this is pure profit because with this is assorted costs that are not seen.

Bathtub mixing...always a good choice

 

[mopar]

So glad I stir it and then dance out...