Fair Pricing

[Can_supplier]

And yes I have calculated the profit margins and they are astronomical BUT the risk/ reward is very high...All IMHO.

Calculations are not always the truth

A mistake often made by people in business is they assume that they can survive on a lower margin than they actually need. Walmart can sell at 1% margin and make a huge profit off volume, few can do that.

Prices in this industry are not out of line. Take a charger for example, you can compare the price to one advertised in China and it would appear to have a high margin. However you will also notice that the same type of charger is sold at the same price point at Future shop, in the very competitive electronics business.

This is a good business, but there isn't a supplier our there working 1 hour a week making a fortune. If you feel otherwise you are more than welcome to join in. An order from China and a website is all it takes to enter the game.

 

[wood]

i like your way of thinking can sup

 

[Cokeybill]

My 2 cents. Are Cdn suppliers more expensive than their U.S, counterparts?- yes. Is the risk associated with a business in Ecigs higher than in the U.S.? definitely YES. So I believe because of this risk the pricing is understandable and, as many posters have noted, if we don't like the prices or appreciate the risk associated with doing business in Canada we can shop elsewhere. And yes I have calculated the profit margins and they are astronomical BUT the risk/ reward is very high...All IMHO.

As far as I'm concerned the risk is minimal in Canada. If the law wanted to shut down vendors...they would have done it by now. All they needed to do was come here and see their sites and walked right in. The risk has absolutely nothing to do with the prices. Many vendors are doing great business and delivering excellent product..no matter what price is set. The only risk is what kind of service and personal touch they have with their customers. Period!

 

[Can_supplier]

As far as I'm concerned the risk is minimal in Canada.

The risk is the unknown. If you open a burger joint you can be 100% certain that no level of government will be walking in your door to shut you down the next day.

This risk also effects the value of our businesses. A business with a history of turning a profit if put up for sale is worth better than two times its annual revenue. Businesses like ours with unknown futures are valued a whole lot less, possibly nothing. We may not have the privilege enjoyed by other forms of business of creating something that can be handed down to our kids.

Also with an unknown future it is not practical to extend the business dependent on future revenues. For example it’s not practical to order a 5 year supply of product to get the rock bottom price, when it will take you over a year to break even on that investment, as such we can’t pass that potential saving on to customers. Far too much of a gamble.

This isn’t a feel sorry for us speech, we all went into this with our eyes open. I just wanted to express some of the challenges that vendors face in this country.

 

[Vapoor eyes er]

Calculations are not always the truth

A mistake often made by people in business is they assume that they can survive on a lower margin than they actually need. Walmart can sell at 1% margin and make a huge profit off volume, few can do that.

Prices in this industry are not out of line. Take a charger for example, you can compare the price to one advertised in China and it would appear to have a high margin. However you will also notice that the same type of charger is sold at the same price point at Future shop, in the very competitive electronics business.

This is a good business, but there isn't a supplier our there working 1 hour a week making a fortune. If you feel otherwise you are more than welcome to join in. An order from China and a website is all it takes to enter the game.

Calculations are not always the truth
My calcs are spot on.

Walmart can sell at 1% margin and make a huge profit off volume, few can do that.
WMT profit margin is 3.87%. Their tactic is to squeeze suppliers. I had a friend who was a buyer for them.

Prices in this industry are not out of line. Take a charger for example, you can compare the price to one advertised in China and it would appear to have a high margin. However you will also notice that the same type of charger is sold at the same price point at Future Shop, in the very competitive electronics business

In this business using hardware as an example is misleading. FS sells reject overpriced junk. FS was selling a Panny home phone for $170.00. I bought it elsewhere for $65.00 and the dealer threw in a free headset LOL. Hardware is low profit margin because of high R&D and product obsolescence. Ecig biz is identical to the printer biz. Sell low/ no profit margin hardware and sell high profit margin ink...It's brilliant. Of course you did not mention the profit margins on Juice? I am making 30 ml X 33mg juice at a cost of $2.50. I give lots of it away and I could get that cost down much lower if I were to order in larger quantities.

This is a good business, but there isn't a supplier our there working 1 hour a week making a fortune
??? Nowhere in my post did I state or hint that the Ecig biz was a part time vocation with a potful of gold at the end of the rainbow.

If you feel otherwise you are more than welcome to join in. An order from China and a website is all it takes to enter the game.
Already have 2 websites- that's the easy part. Order from China/ elsewhere- also easy. I just have one last piece of the puzzle I'm working on that I suspect most suppliers have omitted to research. Just got into this cuz I'm a research hound and was curious about the industry from top to bottom. Join in??? maybe, maybe not....jury's still out

 

[wood]

i wanna join id call my juice hip-e-liquid hahahaha cause im a hippie and everyone will love it !!!!!! who wants to help me

 

[Cokeybill]

The risk is the unknown. If you open a burger joint you can be 100% certain that no level of government will be walking in your door to shut you down the next day.

This risk also effects the value of our businesses. A business with a history of turning a profit if put up for sale is worth better than two times its annual revenue. Businesses like ours with unknown futures are valued a whole lot less, possibly nothing. We may not have the privilege enjoyed by other forms of business of creating something that can be handed down to our kids.

Also with an unknown future it is not practical to extend the business dependent on future revenues. For example it’s not practical to order a 5 year supply of product to get the rock bottom price, when it will take you over a year to break even on that investment, as such we can’t pass that potential saving on to customers. Far too much of a gamble.

This isn’t a feel sorry for us speech, we all went into this with our eyes open. I just wanted to express some of the challenges that vendors face in this country.

Burger joints can be shut down if they don't have it to code. You could be there some day also. No point.
The value of selling your business for profit should not be on your mind in the early part of development...your client base should prioritized everthing... without that you have nothing. Looks like greed when you start looking for doubling you biz value. Your competition is not that threating when the need for product right now seems to be in shortfall when clients can't find what they need and then look cross border for hardware and in some cases juice also.

As far as the future, the Ecig will be here for good(Govt only wants to regulate, not cease)and it continues to rapidly grow.
And if any vendor buys juice to fill stock for 5 years... no one will buy 1 year old juice(never mind anything over that), that is certain and a given. So 6 month turnover is pretty well a given on most ecig products. Hardware probably won't fall into that category. So probably a 6 month investment with a 100% profit margin on juice and a 25-30% on hardware. The risk is small and not as large as said IMHO. Nothing against your statements but we're not talking $100,000 investment here. Probably more in the range of $10,000 to be competitive with the more "planted" vendors in this country. Most is imported from China at least the important part of the puzzle. Their bulk prices are exceptionally cheap compared to the final markup. This will also include stationery, shipping supplies and equipment. I'm not talking Chinese warehouse equipment because the demand isn't at their level...yet. Maybe if HC gets off their butts and take action to regulate this growing and important industry, it may well get there. But if you do start up, as you say, you know your risk. I feel that the only concern is recouping the initial investment in as short a time as possible and compiling the profits at a steady rate, could lower prices to attract more clients and then expansion could be available, if the product is of high quality. Usually the word of mouth will win it or lose it.
But I do agree with trying to protect your investment for future evaluation as capitalism does open the doors to anything possible as well as those doors being closed. Hopefully, it's the equitable one. I am sure there will be others to chime in and discuss the contrary. That's what forums are for... discussion.
Cheers M8 and all the best

 

[Switched]

Ummmm, $10K will get you to the corner. A realistic investment is $25-50K.

Yes China is cheap but you have forgotten the MOQ that will eat up that original investment in a heartbeat. To have a smooth operation you need operating capital to have one order in production, one order in transit and one order on the shelves. Yes initially you start small and expand... but you still need operating capital.

... and if the product flops, you are stuck with it If the product is seized, that goes into the overhead.

 

[Strongz]

i wanna join id call my juice hip-e-liquid hahahaha cause im a hippie and everyone will love it !!!!!! who wants to help me

Great name, Would you have delivery? It would be nice to have a local seller

 

[dancingangela]

I'm about a page behind in responding, but I just wanted to voice my opinion on something. I feel like CapitalNicFit has been getting a lot of flack, and I thought it pertinent to the topic to post a little on my experience. I'm relatively new to vaping (last analogue was June 2nd), and I feel I was fortunate to have contacted CapitalNicFit first. I'm going to second Dorkins' thoughts on this - I have never received better customer service...ever. Having someone meet me at my work, sit down with me to show me how everything works (including how to get the finicky little cap off the tank and doing the first one for me), and answer my questions made the process of switching to vaping easy for me. Having someone continue to meet me wherever I am (and remember where that is), continue to answer my questions (and I often have many), and go above and beyond (like bringing free samples so I can try flavours), that's what I consider good customer service. He even went so far as to offer to drive to my work to give me his last 6mls of chocolate mint when there had been a delay with his shipment because he knew I was running low.

So, before I'm accused of being off topic, what does this have to do with fair pricing? Well, I prefer my fee based bank to PC financial because my bank prides themselves on being top in customer service; I keep going to the same bar because in the time from when I enter the door to when I get to the bar the bartender has already poured me my usual; I go to a more expensive restaurant that has a fairer priced counterpart because at the one I go to the waiters are more attentive and friendlier; I'd rather go to a full serve gas station than a self serve - you probably get my point. Quality of service is as much a part of fair pricing as anything else and to have something delivered (usually within hours) to my door, to be remembered and valued as a customer, to me that's worth the price.

Now, all of that said (and I'm sorry to be so verbose, it just hit a nerve when I heard so many people picking on one vendor, particularly since that vendor has treated me very well as a customer), I think the sign of truly great customer service is a service provider who listens to his clients and it seems to me like CNF has done just that. I could be wrong (and I'm open to learning otherwise), but when I crunched the numbers accounting for coupon discounts and taxes and shipping, I found CNF's prices to be the same or better than any of the other vendors I looked at. As far as I can tell, they're all high compared to the U.S. (and if you take into account the amount of potential loss if an order coming from outside Canada gets seized, it seems comparable). I could dollar and cents it and there may be small differences between CNF and other Canadian suppliers, but then I'd have to wait for it to come in the mail and either be home for delivery or have to go pick it up. I'm a busy lady, the time it would take for me to do either of those things is worth more than the buck or two I may save (which again, when I compared prices, wasn't such a savings).

Those are my thoughts, and just to be perfectly clear, I do not work for CNF, I am not acting on behalf of CNF, I am not CNF in disguise, and I am not advertising for CNF. I am just a satisfied customer offering a countering opinion to some of the ones expressed in regards to the vendor with whom I choose to do business.

 

[Zeeman]

dancingangela - ditto and well said!

 

[Cokeybill]

I haven't heard of many vendors spamming anyone's email here before and also choosing to attempt a law suit for a cease and desist order on a so called client. But it did happen as one member stated. That post is closed now and any comments on it should be left at that. If you wish to comment on a vendor and give him props, there is a thread for that.

 

[mopar]

I think we are heavily laden with trolls and rats with low post counts I could be wrong but it seems like the entire dynamics of the forums have changed greatly lately. Now as far as anyone with the pipe dream of actually getting a serious e-cig business into contention it will cost you no less then $30,000 and then with low volume(canada) CND funds to USD taxes, borkerage, shipping, fee's, bad Chinese companies that demand cash and sit on your money for weeks on end and ignore you when you ask about the product being shipped is foolish. Joyetech has a min 300 order quantity. The knock off's are atleast typically 10-50 and will sit on your $10,000's of thousands of $ for weeks on end. After lambasting the vendors in Canada I spoke with a few of them did a little research based on their input and it's not a cut and dry gravy buiness here. So I have joined the "if you don't like the price don't order" crew. At the same time poor customer service or being frauded is another matter.

 

[xnuala]

Wow, I'm late to this party. I order from CNF as well as other vendors... but mostly CNF for one reason: the service is fantastic. In this world, you pay a premium for great service. When I can, I will pay that for CNF because they have already proven to me how well they treat customers. I have recommended CNF to both friends and family, and they have had great experiences so far. As always, you get to choose what you spend your money on. If you don't like someone's business, feel free not to patronize them.

 

[wood]

lol...........................

 

[MattB]

Hahahahahaha ... and the list of low post supporters keeps growing.

I wonder how long this pathetic show will go on ...

 

[oldsoldier]

Trolling is based on content, not post count.

While there are a lot of trolls and schills that attempt to influence the forums, most folks are intelligent enough to make their own decisions based on said content.

 

[mopar]

hammer dropped us crazy canucks make oldsoldier's life miserable I'm sure.

 

[JayTheVapingGuy]

.....Now as far as anyone with the pipe dream of actually getting a serious e-cig business into contention it will cost you no less then $30,000 and then with low volume(canada) CND funds to USD taxes, borkerage, shipping, fee's, bad Chinese companies that demand cash and sit on your money for weeks on end and ignore you when you ask about the product being shipped is foolish. Joyetech has a min 300 order quantity. The knock off's are atleast typically 10-50 and will sit on your $10,000's of thousands of $ for weeks on end...

Sorry buddy, but you are talking to the WRONG people if you've been told that it costs 30,000 to effectively and properly start an Ecig Business...

Before HC started harrasing people and sending letters out, I had 3 partners all geared up and ready to join me to open up an Ecig shop here in Atlantic Canada... Our total cost to get started, selling 510's, eGo's and related accessories and a decent assortment of Juices(from two different lines of ejuice), including promotional materiel, packing materiels and internet services was under 10k, and we were going full bull on everything, we wanted to do it up right... We would have had enough product on "go-live" day to keep us going for 3 months (which allowed us one month to sell and adjust to what sells better than what and what we need to keep more stock of than the other and then order accordingly for the coming month, with at least one month breather space, just incase packages get stalled or returned at the border)

Now, we never did go live... The partners all panicked when they heard of the letters and ran like dogs with their tails between their legs and I never was able to find even 2 more partners that A) had the startup funds neccessary and B) were known to me well and long enough for me to trust them as my partners... Now, 5(ish) months later, I haven't funds to step up even if I had partners...

J

 

[Switched]

Don't know where you got your figures from Jay but Mopar is definitely in the ballpark whilst your still walking towards it. 3months on $10K investment sorry buddy not even close. (if you are selling a quality product and not the Chinese knock offs)