Fakes/clones pro's/con's

[Fir3b1rd]

Um, just give the original designer the money if it means so much to you. And I've done this for services, artwork, you name it. I really like something and use it a lot, I'll send the person doing it $5 or so. Works and then there's almost no overhead to keep the money from getting to the person or people doing the work.

It's not hard. Ask the designer if they have a paypal account. If they do, send them a few bucks. If not, ask if they have some kind of micro payment system and send them a few bucks.

Lets see, $2-3 dollars for ONE piece vs. 25 to 50 cents per piece profit after all is said and done. For music and books the difference is even greater. The artist makes almost nothing off those so if you actually give them a few dollars, they're way ahead.

Then you can have your rba and you're supporting innovation, more than actually buying the original. What's not to like? Oh, and if they get smart and set up a tip jar, they can claim those as donations and not income. Sweet.

That's how a lot of us in the jsilbreak community do it. Publish your tweak and send it out to cydia for free with your PayPal address and people send in what they want/can.

Yes before I get the obligatory responses because I said something :: I'm well aware it's different and it's a tangible product that involves a manufacturing process. But; if the problem a lot of people have is cost of the "clone" vs cost of the "authentic" if the cost of the greater comes down not to the same level but outmoded the stratosphere most of us who buy the high quality clones would err on the side of authentic.
I realize this common sense approach is difficult to fathom by some; but, being active I'm my local vaping community and hearing the same thing from everyone in my area if just make sense.
Especially when the people I know all stick with the more expensive clones- 35-45 dollars for ehpro or hcigar. I would gladly pay 75 for a real
Kayfun. I've already paid 139.00 and felt like a dumbo head when the clone looked and vaped the same. That cost changed the whole equation.
Furthermore- co's that mod the clone-ie the black edition is a whole different thing. It's an enhanced/improved version.

 

[Chelonian]

hmmm...I paid $89 for my RUssian, and the latest KFL for 109

 

[Fir3b1rd]

I bough my kfl in January from a uk site and paid 139. Evan at 109 though- the difference between 75 and 109 is 39 dollars that's another clone and over 3 times the price of the clone. That 3 times the price is the point that the group of us down here at least start feeling the "why" point.
All of the vapors I hang out with on a regular basis at vape meets have the same moral issues. Just like we won't go to a b&m and shop then buy online. We would rather buy authentic. But factor in kids, mortgage, cars, pets, schools, and the other bills in life. Then you have a hobby that you picked up to save money and quit smoking and you're presented with a choice a cloned X for 30-40 bucks or an original X for three times the price. Easy choice to make. If it gets below three times the price and closer to twice it'll be a lot easier to justify the expense.
Just sayin

 

[tj99959]

Way I look at it with mech. mod clones, if I buy OEM ... I get screwed, if I buy a clone ... the OEM maker gets screwed.

Better him than me!

 

[Dissonance]

Here's how I view them...

Most authentics are outrageously priced. I mean really... $150-$250 for a mechanical mod? (AKA: A tube, a firing switch, a spring or two, and a 510 connection) Get real. If I pay that much, I expect it to offer something unique. Fact is, there are a lot of cases out there where clones perform BETTER than the authentics. Sure, it goes the other way around where some clones are just absolutely terrible quality and should never be used... But that's the name of the game. Research where you're getting your clone from (For example, a well known clone company like hCigar or tobeco versus some cheap Chinese manufacturer) and chances are you're not going to run into any problems. If you do, find another clone from a well known company and buy it. You'll still be at about half the cost of the authentic, and between the two it's almost certain that you'll have a replica that performs identically to the original. Just because they were the first to design it, or in some cases just put their fancy logo on it, doesn't mean that it's going to perform better than a 1:1 replica of the same thing.

That being said... Authentics that are decently priced, I'll buy over a clone any day. Example, Fogger V4 authentic is $30. It out performs any other RTA I've owned. Now sure, I could save a few bucks and buy that $22 clone... But I'll pay the extra $8 to support the company that produced it, if for no other reason just because they don't rip their customers off.

Also, I like to tinker with my gear a lot... I never smoked cigs, rather switched to vaping from hookah, so what I want out of my vape is a bit different than people looking to emulate that cig experience. Drill the air hole out, dremel the juice channels out, whatever... If something doesn't perform the way I want it to, and doesn't perform right after my modifications... I'd much rather have to throw away a $30 clone than a $150 authentic.

 

[Fir3b1rd]

Here's how I view them...

Most authentics are outrageously priced. I mean really... $150-$250 for a mechanical mod? (AKA: A tube, a firing switch, a spring or two, and a 510 connection) Get real. If I pay that much, I expect it to offer something unique. Fact is, there are a lot of cases out there where clones perform BETTER than the authentics. Sure, it goes the other way around where some clones are just absolutely terrible quality and should never be used... But that's the name of the game. Research where you're getting your clone from (For example, a well known clone company like hCigar or tobeco versus some cheap Chinese manufacturer) and chances are you're not going to run into any problems. If you do, find another clone from a well known company and buy it. You'll still be at about half the cost of the authentic, and between the two it's almost certain that you'll have a replica that performs identically to the original. Just because they were the first to design it, or in some cases just put their fancy logo on it, doesn't mean that it's going to perform better than a 1:1 replica of the same thing.

That being said... Authentics that are decently priced, I'll buy over a clone any day. Example, Fogger V4 authentic is $30. It out performs any other RTA I've owned. Now sure, I could save a few bucks and buy that $22 clone... But I'll pay the extra $8 to support the company that produced it, if for no other reason just because they don't rip their customers off.

Also, I like to tinker with my gear a lot... I never smoked cigs, rather switched to vaping from hookah, so what I want out of my vape is a bit different than people looking to emulate that cig experience. Drill the air hole out, dremel the juice channels out, whatever... If something doesn't perform the way I want it to, and doesn't perform right after my modifications... I'd much rather have to throw away a $30 clone than a $150 authentic.

150-200 for a mech mod and I got crucified on ECF for spending 160 on my p-thingy.
Not even wanting to open that can

 

[Chelonian]

How the tube is made, and of what makes a big difference.

Mill a tube out of a block of certified 316, or buy a length of extruded uncertified 313.

Both do the job, but there are large differences in price and quality.

Just depends on what you want - just the job, or not.

Anyways, this is useless.

 

[Topwater Elvis]

Anyways, this is useless.

IMO, */ thread

 

[Nikkita6]

Tell me about it. I was 15 years old; so, not sure if I'm remembering this right. But I think it had something to do with the catalytic converter needing enough back pressure so it had to rev high to keep going. What a piece of crap that car was. 50 shades of blue and drove like a big turd.

You really need to stop making me laugh .. we are trying to have a serious discussion here ...

 

[Despraci]

Since the thread is still here and the horse is still twitching a little....

Clones are a great away for new vapers to get into mech with a specific style they be looking for at a lower cost. Now there are some lower cost authentics that you could argue are worth the little extra. But regardless, a newbie to mech, or even a DNA type device a user doesn't want to spend a lot for a device they may up not liking. Now you can argue it's because it's the quality of the clone that the user won't like, but there are good high quality clones, not every one is a piece of garbage.

I justify buy clones by the statement above, but I do usually end up buying an authentic as well. If I end up liking the device because of style, functionality, or because it's shiny, then I will gladly support the original designer / creator, especially if it's a reasonable amount they are asking for their product. If it's an unreasonable amount ($250+ for a mech) there better be a reason, IE limited edition produced by the original creator. So its like buying a piece of art that will probably never leave my house.

One thing I really hate is trademark infringements. If I were to buy a clone and had the choice of exact copy of the trademarks like the original and no trademarks... I'd by the unbranded one. I've got no problem telling people what devices of mine are clones or authentics.

I think to hurt the clone market, creators have to make their product more reasonably prices unless something justifies the cost and makethem more readily available to the masses.

I respect those that buy authentics and only buy those. I understand why some new people buy clones, or buy clones to test a device to see if it fits there needs and style.

If people judge other based on what's in their hand as they vape, that's pretty sad... because we should support each other, rather then turning vaping into a *** measuring contest. And if you ever happen to meet me and I have a clone in my hand and you wish to persecute me for it... remember I probably pulled up in a limited edition Porsche with a number plate set into the leather dash.... I win!.

 

[Fir3b1rd]

You really need to stop making me laugh .. we are trying to have a serious discussion here ...

Some things can't be taken too seriously. One of which is the concept of anyone caring what anyone else buys.
Which is why I only buy gm products

 

[Fir3b1rd]

Seriously the concept of griping because I chose to buy whatever is just ridiculous unto itself. If you want to judge someone on there personal purchases judge then on their pajama choices... You know the important things. After all they spend 8 out 24 hours in there pjs that's much more important than what they put in there mouths.

 

[HauntedMyst]

And if you ever happen to meet me and I have a clone in my hand and you wish to persecute me for it... remember I probably pulled up in a limited edition Porsche with a number plate set into the leather dash.... I win!.

You win what?

 

[Fir3b1rd]

I weep for this industry
What in the world.......

 

[Jdbaker82]

Lesser quality can be expect given lower pricetags. but it's important to remember that while a novel invention, vaping is very Low-tech.. even if you fudge the cloning a bit.. you can't fudge by much.. and a little sandpaper or extra sliver of copper is usually all that's needed to get everything operational..

It's important to take a step back and evaluate what it is you're trying to get done..

Are you putting together a status item for yourself?

Are you just trying to get vapor into your lungs and on with your day?

amen brotha I could care less what people say bad about clones I am very happy paying 1/5th the price for the same damn thing. liquid go in vapor come out and my wallet stays thicker

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Xparent Skyblue Tapatalk 2

 

[HauntedMyst]

I weep for this industry

I doubt that very much.

 

[Fir3b1rd]

I doubt that very much.

No dude; I really do. What started out as an interesting discussion has denigrated into being able to buy a sports car; because, you buy clones.
Somehow I can't seem to so figure out how one equates to the other? Andy why would a Porsche be a smart purchase for a sports car anyway? Well I guess a cloned Kayfun and a clones Volkswagen are equivalent somehow?
If this whole vaping universe is the replacement for stinkies- say what you will that's is why most of us vape- I can't remember the last time I argued with someone because they bought dunhills and I bought camel. Or I had a cohiba siglo vi and they had a hoyo de Monterrey.
The idocracy in this whole argument is unsettling.
Like I'm really going to feel bad because in on hand is my provari with an authentic kayfun and in the other is my ehpro caravela with my ehpro kayfun- clones!!! Yet outside my door is an authentic sports car. But wait its a gm not a Porsche .....
Ohhhhh that's it I buy mech clones and regulates authentics that means I can have a sports car so long as it's only an American sports car... Now it makes sense... Woohoo!!!

 

[DoubleEwe]

How the tube is made, and of what makes a big difference.

Mill a tube out of a block of certified 316, or buy a length of extruded uncertified 313.

Both do the job, but there are large differences in price and quality.

Just depends on what you want - just the job, or not.

I do not believe for one second that the majority (if not all) of the mech mod manufacturers mill their own tubes out of blocks of marine grade steel...

The far more likely scenario is that they buy in hollow tubes which are already the OD required with an ID ready for threading. The mod maker then cuts the tube to size, threads it & finishes (polishing, engraving etc).
I am sure that some even outsource the cutting, threading & finishing, which makes sense considering it is a more cost effective way to operate (due to there being companies that specialize in exactly those areas which already have trained staff and the required machinery).

If they don't operate the system outlined above then they really need to go to business school. (and not just for the lessons on marking up the price)

If I were to hand make a mech mod and it took me a year to do, it does not necessarily mean that it is worth $50,000.
That is the case especially if someone else (with greater skill/expertise) can make the same thing in less time & with less overheads.


Picture of delivery of metal tubes (element mods instagram)

 

[Crow2]

Im all for clones. I hate that the same logos and markings are used, but what am I gonna do. It doesn't affect me on a personal level.
I just cant ever imagine a 250$ authentic working 5x (in reflection of price) better than my 50$ clone.

Sure you're paying for, well I dont even know what, exclusivity? And if that really matters to you, and you have the money, go for it.
But I'd personally much rather buy 5 clones that work great, perfectly with some work, than 1 mod that came with a little certificate I can keep in the box I'll never touch again.

 

[Chelonian]

I do not believe for one second that the majority (if not all) of the mech mod manufacturers mill their own tubes out of blocks of marine grade steel...

The far more likely scenario is that they buy in hollow tubes which are already the OD required with an ID ready for threading. The mod maker then cuts the tube to size, threads it & finishes (polishing, engraving etc).
I am sure that some even outsource the cutting, threading & finishing, which makes sense considering it is a more cost effective way to operate (due to there being companies that specialize in exactly those areas which already have trained staff and the required machinery).

If they don't operate the system outlined above then they really need to go to business school. (and not just for the lessons on marking up the price)

If I were to hand make a mech mod and it took me a year to do, it does not necessarily mean that it is worth $50,000.
That is the case especially if someone else (with greater skill/expertise) can make the same thing in less time & with less overheads.


Picture of delivery of metal tubes (element mods instagram)

Exactly my point when I said that machinists trying to cash in on the vape craze, thereby narrowing the difference between clones and originals.

Most of the popular mods are not worth the money they are asking. It seems that if you throw a design from an Ed Hardy T-shirt on an extruded copper tube it's worth $250.

In the meantime, you can get a machined mod for $125-$185 from Super - T, and a telescoping ELA with a quarter turn lock for $248. All of them have rhodium contacts.

Or GP products. How about a Themis?

These companies already had the equipment at hand, and the skill to make them.

Meanwhile the Stingray, for example, has button problems, copper contacts and goes for $250 - $125 - $155 more than the non ELA mods.

There are milled mods out there, and none of them are clones, and only some of them are originals.