Fast wicking

[MacTechVpr]

I hear you bro, I've had "delicious success with spaced too...

And my all time favorite...

However that's drippers. tanks especially Genesis style are completely different. Avocado may not be an over complicated tank and the concept is pretty straightforward however it's gonna take time to get this thing dissected 100%.


In the original post I was referring to the diameter of the coil, not the wicking. I'm sorry I didn't specify that buddy.

When I first built that coil I was going for surface area and ended up with this....

Once wicked I realized that this wasn't gonna work because the cotton was getting chocked on each side, from coil to juice channels. I also learned that they made those juice holes with that diameter most likely with the intention of people having big diameter coils in there. So I've done what at first seemed like an impossible thing to do and unwrapped one wrap, stretched it vertically (if that makes sense) and it kind of opened up, allowing me to reinsert a 3.8mm in there and kind of "rewrap" it to match the juice holes. I ended up with this....

And a prettier picture....

Sorry it looks a bit sloppy but that was my very first attempt at hand wrap helixing something like this.

The wicks were just covering the holes but not going down to the bottom of the tank. I took that picture after I saturated the lights out of it and you can see that it's holding a ton of juice. I thought I was golden at that point. But no. Still wasn't wicking super fast.

Yes I know what you mean by compression within a coil and having "long thins" may not be enough of a "road" so to speak to get the juice up to the coil.

Hopefully this helps you guys see where I'm coming from and what grounds I've covered so far.

I haven't built yet cause I got a headache but I'll pop something out soon, just trying to figure out if maybe I should play with wicking this one more or not.

Thanks for the great response and your observations. By all accounts and the wick you're showin' you should be rockin' it just since this last one seems to show the kit is duly tight and truly wet. So maybe the problem is in my understanding of what you're experiencing. Mebe a pic of the coil in the dried out state you're talkin' about might be revealing. Dunno. Good pick up on the wick shoulder sag issue. Common problem, exposed or hot end turns which can exist independent of hot leads.

Feel better just. Many good coils await you.

@SLIPPY_EEL I'm curio about the break in the wire weave at termination. You're the man when it comes to complex wire and I thought to ask what's been your experience on connectivity with this. Also in just's orig build there were three distinct dark spots in the apparently young wind suggesting no oxidation or the oxidation was being defeated (hot spots). Is his build going super-hot on account of one of such? I've only vaped a few dozen of these long-term…Clapton's by me, other varieties sent to me or factory. So, I haven't seen the wilder side like you guys on how hot is hot with these things. I know ineffectively oxidized contact winds can go critical (>1000F at center) from direct temp observation juiced, i.e. in operation. Symmetry has to be pretty important with these winds.

Good luck.

 

[Justadude]

As perfect as I could make it. It's just covering the holes.

 

[Justadude]

Thanks for the great response and your observations. By all accounts and the wick you're showin' you should be rockin' it just since this last one seems to show the kit is duly tight and truly wet. So maybe the problem is in my understanding of what you're experiencing. Mebe a pic of the coil in the dried out state you're talkin' about might be revealing. Dunno. Good pick up on the wick shoulder sag issue. Common problem, exposed or hot end turns which can exist independent of hot leads.

Feel better just. Many good coils await you.

@SLIPPY_EEL I'm curio about the break in the wire weave at termination. You're the man when it comes to complex wire and I thought to ask what's been your experience on connectivity with this. Also in just's orig build there were three distinct dark spots in the apparently young wind suggesting no oxidation or the oxidation was being defeated (hot spots). Is his build going super-hot on account of one of such? I've only vaped a few dozen of these long-term…Clapton's by me, other varieties sent to me or factory. So, I haven't seen the wilder side like you guys on how hot is hot with these things. I know ineffectively oxidized contact winds can go critical (>1000F at center) from direct temp observation juiced, i.e. in operation. Symmetry has to be pretty important with these winds.

Good luck.

Simple coils are great but these super coils CAN BE badass if done right. The alien one keeps TONS of juice. Something is wrong with the wicking of this baby hence the problems hence this post. I'm a perfectionist. I want a hot vape but not burning my mouth hot and I'm a strong believer that it's possible even if I'm chain vaping back to back. I achieved that in my kanger subtank mini. Built a vertical, finally got wicking JUST RIGHT and it's a beast. People's eyes open wide up whenever they try it cause they can't believe I was able to get that much flavor from something like subtank mini. But I know it's possible. Here's what's STILL in there....

As you see it's in a perfect uniform.

Vape is pretty warm, but the tank doesn't get hot at all. Flavor is immense. If I can do it in a kanger I can do it on this fruit tank hahaha

 

[MacTechVpr]

Simple coils are great but these super coils CAN BE badass if done right. The alien one keeps TONS of juice. Something is wrong with the wicking of this baby hence the problems hence this post. I'm a perfectionist. I want a hot vape but not burning my mouth hot and I'm a strong believer that it's possible even if I'm chain vaping back to back. I achieved that in my kanger subtank mini. Built a vertical, finally got wicking JUST RIGHT and it's a beast. People's eyes open wide up whenever they try it cause they can't believe I was able to get that much flavor from something like subtank mini. But I know it's possible. Here's what's STILL in there....

As you see it's in a perfect uniform.

Vape is pretty warm, but the tank doesn't get hot at all. Flavor is immense. If I can do it in a kanger I can do it on this fruit tank hahaha

Tough build to get right. Congrats. My bad, keep forgetting you're using rayon. I'd be putting a lot more of it in there. Almost twice the density of KGD. Just a thought if all else fails. Wish ya luck. I'm out tonite.

p.s. Your Kanger build's like puttin' a Ford 350 in a Honda.

 

[Justadude]

Tough build to get right. Congrats. My bad, keep forgetting you're using rayon. I'd be putting a lot more of it in there. Almost twice the density of KGD. Just a thought if all else fails. Wish ya luck. I'm out tonite.

p.s. Your Kanger build's like puttin' a Ford 350 in a Honda.

Lmfao about the kanger comment
Yeah it's equivalent to putting a 420 big block in a little civic hahaha

And I'm using KGD brother

 

[Justadude]

Well guys I think I finally got it. But then again "I only think" I got it. Having short wicks is proving to CONSTANTLY juice the coil. Also the super short juice flow and the big cotton road that juice travels from tank to coil seems to help a ton too.

I did get some juice in my mouth but vaped it back to back and full on flavor better than my drippers. Yes you read me right

Now I'm thinking that the amount of cotton I have in there, covering roughly 80% of the holes but not entirely would be an even better vape if the wicks were longer to about half way down the tank. I'll experiment with it and let you brothers know what I get.

 

[Justadude]

Gentleman, here's the verdict....
I tried longer wicks halfway down the tank and no go. Juice doesn't travel fast enough even though "the path" is bigger. It would be peachy if it would travel up thinner cotton path but that doesn't work "consistently".

The answer is...... short wick. Just barely to cover the juice holes so it doesn't leak all over the place. Tip I found, as you're locating the cotton in the juice holes you can lay it out on the sides and somewhat of the outer edge of the actual juice hole, this way when you tilt it it'll flow right onto to the cotton, instead of on the deck. ALSO, another benefit of that is that you'll get an even more consistent of a vape. It'll be smooth as opposed to the juice popping cause it's being vaporized on the deck and end up in your mouth. Hopefully you know what I mean.

Let me rephrase that....

If your wick is is the middle and on the outer edge of the juice hole, kind of between the post holes and the outer part of the deck, and middle obviously, when tilted the juice will pour out onto the deck. When fired it'll vaporized what's on the deck creating popping (juice being vaporized) pretty much straight off the deck. Further the little vapor particles will end up in your throat, making you caugh. Yes it's pure flavor, yes it's delicious, but it'll make you caugh. No matter how many packs you smoked in your other life lol

This can be fixed by aligning the outer part of the juice hole with cotton (part furthest away from post holes) along with the usual middle and sides. This way the juice will seep directly onto the wick resulting in a consistent vape, regardless the watts, regardless the length of a pull, and regardless if you're vaping this back to back or not

This tank tastes better then drippers. I'm not even kidding. The flavor is plain stupid. I'm vaping on strawberry milk and it tastes like a delicious smoothie. Mac - get avocado dude, you'll love it.

I hope people will benefit from this thread. There is a ton of knowledge from here regarding the wicking of avocado tank. As for me I'll go on to working with more alien wire, paralleled, helixed zippers and other crazy coils simply because I love building.

I hope this will work long term as far as this wicking is concerned. If any of you guys don't understand any of the crap I babbled let me know. It's 2 am here and I still have this flippin headache. Time too have a last dryless vape off my new technique and hit the sack. Girl is already in deep lala land lol

One more thing to mention now that I think about it is using even less wick and completely covering the outer edge of the juice hole for EVEN better faster juice transfer. But in order to keep the compression within the coil the legs will have to get trimmed, then outlined on the outer most edges. Good idea but it's too late to be screwing with that right now lol

 

[SLIPPY_EEL]

Thanks for the great response and your observations. By all accounts and the wick you're showin' you should be rockin' it just since this last one seems to show the kit is duly tight and truly wet. So maybe the problem is in my understanding of what you're experiencing. Mebe a pic of the coil in the dried out state you're talkin' about might be revealing. Dunno. Good pick up on the wick shoulder sag issue. Common problem, exposed or hot end turns which can exist independent of hot leads.

Feel better just. Many good coils await you.

@SLIPPY_EEL I'm curio about the break in the wire weave at termination. You're the man when it comes to complex wire and I thought to ask what's been your experience on connectivity with this. Also in just's orig build there were three distinct dark spots in the apparently young wind suggesting no oxidation or the oxidation was being defeated (hot spots). Is his build going super-hot on account of one of such? I've only vaped a few dozen of these long-term…Clapton's by me, other varieties sent to me or factory. So, I haven't seen the wilder side like you guys on how hot is hot with these things. I know ineffectively oxidized contact winds can go critical (>1000F at center) from direct temp observation juiced, i.e. in operation. Symmetry has to be pretty important with these winds.

Good luck.

Do you mean termination as in the terminal connection Mac, the only time you would have a problem with termination here is if say one of the strands of wire from a weaved wire worked its way into the side of the post screw as you tightened down, giving a short, its only happened to me on those rda's with huge post holes, this can be overcome by twisting just the end of the coil legs but in general it doesn't happen very often and i insert the legs as is in the weaved form.
Spaced braids like the one i posted on page5 don't have shorts along the length of its coils when you fire them up the first time, i'd imagine if the braid was all loose then yeah you would but when i make a braid i will take both ends of it with pliers etc and stretch it back out, it also stops it from being to springy as you wrap the coil.
Braided and exotic builds behave the same way as snugged wraps on standard single wired coils where you would start out with hot spots then as you strum and squeeze the coil you get the short across the length where one side of the coil is tighter than the other, lots of strumming, squeezing and pulsing which i'm not to fond of unless your wire is quite rigid you have a chance of unknowingly creating hot spots as you wick and pull the coil about. Then the only way that you would tell if you had hot spots is if you had extra TH or if you were able to pulse your coil with a dryish wick installed.
If you were to look at most of the builds i do you would see that unless they are tensioned wire they have a slight gap between wraps, i don't see any benefit from tight or snugged wraps on exotics or braids unless your rda is that small and you need the extra wraps to bring the resistance back up.

One other thing i'd like to talk about is the misconception over hot builds but i will have to come back for that one as i'm running out of time atm.


Thanks for letting me know the name of the Nextel i will be on the hunt now


One quick last thing to 'Justadude', what mg nic are you vaping cus you do know that if your nic is to high for your build it will feel uncomfortably hot.

 

[MacTechVpr]

This tank tastes better then drippers. I'm not even kidding. The flavor is plain stupid. I'm vaping on strawberry milk and it tastes like a delicious smoothie. Mac - get avocado dude, you'll love it.

Outstanding set of observations just. Finding the balance is one of my themes and it appears you're there on the juice holes and wick length. I'll be referring to this convo when I get mine (it's in the order cue).

Good luck.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Do you mean termination as in the terminal connection Mac, the only time you would have a problem with termination here is if say one of the strands of wire from a weaved wire worked its way into the side of the post screw as you tightened down, giving a short, its only happened to me on those rda's with huge post holes, this can be overcome by twisting just the end of the coil legs but in general it doesn't happen very often and i insert the legs as is in the weaved form.

Spaced braids like the one i posted on page5 don't have shorts along the length of its coils when you fire them up the first time, i'd imagine if the braid was all loose then yeah you would but when i make a braid i will take both ends of it with pliers etc and stretch it back out, it also stops it from being to springy as you wrap the coil.

Braided and exotic builds behave the same way as snugged wraps on standard single wired coils where you would start out with hot spots then as you strum and squeeze the coil you get the short across the length where one side of the coil is tighter than the other, lots of strumming, squeezing and pulsing which i'm not to fond of unless your wire is quite rigid you have a chance of unknowingly creating hot spots as you wick and pull the coil about.

Then the only way that you would tell if you had hot spots is if you had extra TH or if you were able to pulse your coil with a dryish wick installed.
If you were to look at most of the builds i do you would see that unless they are tensioned wire they have a slight gap between wraps, i don't see any benefit from tight or snugged wraps on exotics or braids unless your rda is that small and you need the extra wraps to bring the resistance back up.

One other thing i'd like to talk about is the misconception over hot builds but i will have to come back for that one as i'm running out of time atm.


Thanks for letting me know the name of the Nextel i will be on the hunt now


One quick last thing to 'Justadude', what mg nic are you vaping cus you do know that if your nic is to high for your build it will feel uncomfortably hot.

Why I consider complex multi-wire more of an art in many ways than a predictable science. And it's beautiful stuff that you do. Same sense of feel to detect adequate strain as for a t.m.c. but at a greater level of force and leverage. I still haven't mastered guiding and forming fat wire and maybe that's part of the attraction.

I've only done a few 3-wire twisted's (2x and parallels constantly my first year) and a half-dzn Clapton's. Read ya on the strumming and adjustment, it's to be expected. You know my proposition that it's uneven wire strain that causes res variation. And you're right, it's more critical with lower wire mass (easy to induce even by wicking). Still love the legacy Jag's tho even if panel seams weren't flawlessly parallel and panel curves not perfectly identical. So what, beautiful creatures they were back then. Symmetry's not always ideal in nature either. Point to me is that we understand how best to make it work.

G'luck slip.

 

[Justadude]

One quick last thing to 'Justadude', what mg nic are you vaping cus you do know that if your nic is to high for your build it will feel uncomfortably hot.

3 mg nic on this avocado. 6 on kanger subtank 12 on ego mini

Outstanding set of observations just. Finding the balance is one of my themes and it appears you're there on the juice holes and wick length. I'll be referring to this convo when I get mine (it's in the order cue).

Good luck.

Let me know if you come across questions issues once it comes in : )

 

[Justadude]

Figured I'd share this with you guys.... I just build this. Its a triple twisted clapton zipper coil helixed. All kanthal, 3x30/40, helixed with 36. 3/4 wraps around 3mm ID, at .34ohms.

It's long so I might drop the wick legs on a side, or more less front sides, leaving the inner front of the juice wells open for flow. Should be a good vape. Fires fast at 80w. Had that alien in there all weekend and got tired of it. It's delicious but I just wanted to build something new.

 

[SLIPPY_EEL]

Nice build @Justadude

 

[MacTechVpr]

Figured I'd share this with you guys.... I just build this. Its a triple twisted clapton zipper coil helixed. All kanthal, 3x30/40, helixed with 36. 3/4 wraps around 3mm ID, at .34ohms.

It's long so I might drop the wick legs on a side, or more less front sides, leaving the inner front of the juice wells open for flow. Should be a good vape. Fires fast at 80w. Had that alien in there all weekend and got tired of it. It's delicious but I just wanted to build something new.

One of the prettiest patterns I've seen. Especially with the contrast of what gold developed. Instantly sent images through my head of the ornate gothic sets of the film Dune and even Aliens. If it only vapes as ornately rich as the first and as hard as the latter, you must be in heaven.

Good luck and remember the 4th.

 

[Justadude]

Thanks guys, I appreciate that. And happy 4th to you both as well

I'll wick this up today and vape it and let you know how it performs. I couldn't be bothered to wick it last night after working on that coil for 2-3 hours. I screwed up one leg and had to redo it which is why it took longer. Twisted counterclockwise while I already had another leg done counterclockwise. I was like faaaark lol

First time doing a helixed zipper, turned out decent. Thanks for comments guys I'll keep you posted how she vapes.

 

[Justadude]

Wicked it like this. Cut off the top legs with more cotton. Stuff the little guys on the front of juice channels.

Guys, Oh. My. God.

Perfect vape. Longer pulls, shorter pulls. Doesn't matter. This holds so much juice. It's so flavorful. No juice in my mouth at all. Wicks instantly. Full blown flavor. Best flavor I've ever gotten so far on this avocado. Drippers can't even compare at this point. Totally different ball game. I'm in complete awe. Just totally stunned by this.

The last outer leg on the right sticks out a little but as Mac said sometimes it's the little imperfections that make it all worth while. Just wow. Completely speechless.

 

[RedAlert]

Something for you guys to try if you're having wicking problems. Been playing with both my 24s for almost a month and sometimes they're good, sometimes not so much. It was all down to the wicking being wrong.
Where I got my idea: Being underwhelmed with my 24s I has just recently ordered an Aromamizer Supreme and I've been watching youtube builds for it so I know what to do when I get it. If you look at the Supreme's juice feed holes they are exactly like the Avocado's, except the juice flows down and under the deck on the supreme. So why wouldn't the same thing be accomplished when tilting the avocado? An idea!
The method: No scottish role, nothing fancy. I'm running 2.5mm single coil so I cut a strip of KGD cotton about 1/4" wide, took off the skins and pinched only the one end. As I fed it through the coil I slightly turned the other side of the cotton so it would compact slightly to make it through the coil without bunching. Once through and did the back and forth to make it more even inside the coil. Once I was happy I cut both sides even with the O rings on the deck. Then just curled them under the coil to cover the juice holes. Absolutely none of the cotton into the holes! Just make sure the cotton sits on the hole/deck. Did this on both sides and made sure there was space under the coil for airflow.
As soon as I turned my mod upside down and then back, I could see the juice rush right up the wicks and into the coil. Tried out my new 20 second wicking technique. Amazing flavor and not a single dry hit to be found. As long as when you take a pull the juice just touched the holes the wick will be wetted. AWESOME and easy the way it should be.
Only two down sides to this method. 1) There is no constant wicking, meaning, you have to be conscious of tilting the mod when you take a pull since the wicks aren't touching liquid all the time. 2) You cant leave it on its side for more than a few seconds without a leak occuring. One juice I make is a very thing 60/40 and it will seep out rather quickly. The other one I use being a thick 50/50 takes a while before any will come out but it will leak eventually.

 

[Justadude]

Red alert - so you're saying basically wick it as if it was a dripper?

The concept I'm illustrating below I described on previous pages, it's wicking super fast as well and also depends on the tilting method. One thing to mention though - you need to take a harder pull every now and then to rewick it instantly then you're good for a while again.

As you tilt it the juice will seep out directly onto the cotton and up to the coil. Also no actual juice in your mouth. And it'll take a while to leak as well.

If for whatever reason my method won't work I'll definitely wick it like a dripper

 

[SLIPPY_EEL]

Wicked it like this. Cut off the top legs with more cotton. Stuff the little guys on the front of juice channels.

Guys, Oh. My. God.

Perfect vape. Longer pulls, shorter pulls. Doesn't matter. This holds so much juice. It's so flavorful. No juice in my mouth at all. Wicks instantly. Full blown flavor. Best flavor I've ever gotten so far on this avocado. Drippers can't even compare at this point. Totally different ball game. I'm in complete awe. Just totally stunned by this.

The last outer leg on the right sticks out a little but as Mac said sometimes it's the little imperfections that make it all worth while. Just wow. Completely speechless.

Very nice Dude! that's a tidy bit of wicking there!
What resistance is the coil and what id did you run her at, 3mm id?

These coils work well because where the wire is Helixed together like this the juice will run in along the grooves acting like a wick itself, most of the fancy coils will act the same way where you could drip a drop of juice on one end of a length of the wire and you will see the juice run the whole length without falling off and will even go against gravity, if you tried the same thing with a single wire you will see the juice dripping off the wire not far from where you planted it.
If you watch the following vid from 8.15 you can see a coil feeding itself with juice


Heres another variation on the helix wire i made a long time ago

 

[SLIPPY_EEL]

Something for you guys to try if you're having wicking problems. Been playing with both my 24s for almost a month and sometimes they're good, sometimes not so much. It was all down to the wicking being wrong.
Where I got my idea: Being underwhelmed with my 24s I has just recently ordered an Aromamizer Supreme and I've been watching youtube builds for it so I know what to do when I get it. If you look at the Supreme's juice feed holes they are exactly like the Avocado's, except the juice flows down and under the deck on the supreme. So why wouldn't the same thing be accomplished when tilting the avocado? An idea!
The method: No scottish role, nothing fancy. I'm running 2.5mm single coil so I cut a strip of KGD cotton about 1/4" wide, took off the skins and pinched only the one end. As I fed it through the coil I slightly turned the other side of the cotton so it would compact slightly to make it through the coil without bunching. Once through and did the back and forth to make it more even inside the coil. Once I was happy I cut both sides even with the O rings on the deck. Then just curled them under the coil to cover the juice holes. Absolutely none of the cotton into the holes! Just make sure the cotton sits on the hole/deck. Did this on both sides and made sure there was space under the coil for airflow.
As soon as I turned my mod upside down and then back, I could see the juice rush right up the wicks and into the coil. Tried out my new 20 second wicking technique. Amazing flavor and not a single dry hit to be found. As long as when you take a pull the juice just touched the holes the wick will be wetted. AWESOME and easy the way it should be.
Only two down sides to this method. 1) There is no constant wicking, meaning, you have to be conscious of tilting the mod when you take a pull since the wicks aren't touching liquid all the time. 2) You cant leave it on its side for more than a few seconds without a leak occuring. One juice I make is a very thing 60/40 and it will seep out rather quickly. The other one I use being a thick 50/50 takes a while before any will come out but it will leak eventually.

Interesting! i also have an Aromamizer and i know that there is pretty much no chance of the wick moving from its position as things are pretty tight in there once wicked But have you ever had the wick in the avocado move from its position with the side moves you do to keep it juiced?

I also wonder the wick if done the way you would do in say a Griffin would also work where you would feed the juice holes with wick but without pushing the wicks fully through the hole, just snug them in may work.


On rda's the wicks are fairly short and the heat passes from the coil to the wick, the heating of the wick helps the juice head for the source, you don't get this benefit with the longer wicks, maybe the wick tail's in the juice is keeping the wick near that area from warming up enough to move the juice.

When i get the ijoy limitless i would like to try a mesh wick that is independent of the normal wick though the coil, maybe have the mesh wick shaped into an upside down 'U' so as it touches the bottom of the tank and then lies across the deck between the juice holes and then have my normal wick from the coil sat on the deck as per the way its used in the aromamizer.