Fda approval!

[yvilla]

I am all for helping my neighbor, but it isn't like I can check a box that says I would prefer to put money into schools vs. welfare. So in a way, I am forced to pay for social programs that I might not necessarily agree with.

Lacey, if the above is your definition of socialism, and if it is shared by all the others throwing out the word socialism in association with the US, then that explains why I keep seeing people talking about the US being socialist, or Obama being socialist, or the US turining towards socialism, when nothing could be further from the truth.

To simplify a much more complex issue, socialism refers to state ownership and control of the means of production and distribution of goods, and a society characterized by equality for all individuals, with an egalitarian method of compensation. That is NOT the US. Obama does NOT stand for that. I would wager than almost none of our elected officials stand for that, with a few very limited exceptions. Those "social programs" that exist here are not socialism.

For reference on the definiton of socialism, and that of capitalism, see:

Socialism and Capitalism
Socialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Capitalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Personally, I would prefer that we not muddy the waters around the issue that we all share and care about here - the continued lawful availablity of ecigs here in the US and in other countries around the world - with discussions about politics that truly have nothing to do with our issue, and that are spreading misunderstanding and misinformation as well.

 

[Kate]

You're my hero Yvilla

 

[NY JETS]

not to get into this too much, but the Fed is absolute garbage. look at inflation in the USA since the inception of the Federal Reserve. it is nauseating

 

[paladinx]

Capitalism starts to look more like socialism after time. If you look at a rigid definition of socialism and compare it to the US now, you might say no. But if you look at the big picture and the engine of socialism and its main points, then you will start to see that we head into this through different means. Think of it this way. Competition starts off strong it fuels the economy, after time companies get bigger and bigger sucking up the smaller ones, controlling entire industries. Then you have to understand that these huge companies are tied with the government more then people realize. So the separation between different companies competing, and more importantly the separation of the government and corporations starts to get much fainter till power becomes more centralized. Centralized in the sense that companies with tons of money, power and lobbyists now almost become the government because of their influence on legislation.

 

[yvilla]

Centralized in the sense that companies with tons of money, power and lobbyists now almost become the government because of their influence on legislation.

LOL - the extreme opposite pole to socialism? The capitalist-industrial complex? Private ownership not only of the means of production and distribution, but also of governance, versus state ownership of the means of production and distribution.

 

[DeanR]

Blah Blah Blah Blame the 95% of the population that don't get the big picture.

That don't hold their government accountable, only paying some attention to whats going on when it hits the 24 hour news channels.

That complain about whats going on WAAAAY more than getting informed or doing something about it.

But thats the culture alot of people have grown/slipped into. Not to get to political myself, but I am Indemocrat =] used to be an independent but the R's scared the crud out of me lately. I AM a conservative but the thing is there is no real conservative party, republicans say that but thats shenanagins. Bob Barr & the libritarions(SP?) are the true conservatives.

I was hoping that libritarions(SP?) would get more of a vote in November, taking from both partys. Two big divisions are bullhonkey.... THAT is whats wrong with America!!!! Uninformed public and 2 big dictatorship "corporations".

Oh the US has been semi socialist for DECADES...

I better stop,,,, thanks for letting me vent.... this was all typed on my ps3, with a controller =>

 

[paladinx]

Yvilla i do not think you really understood what I was trying to say. And I really dont feel like elaborating more on a e-cig forum. dont have the energy. For those who saw any logic in my post of what I am trying to say cool. Otherwise whatever lol.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

Personally, I would prefer that we not muddy the waters around the issue that we all share and care about here - the continued lawful availablity of ecigs here in the US and in other countries around the world - with discussions about politics that truly have nothing to do with our issue, and that are spreading misunderstanding and misinformation as well.

I couldn't agree more... and as the first post of my "socialism" conversation was almost two months ago, I am the first to admit that there is an evolution in my thought process that is occurring.

I do appreciate your links and when I am not all consumed by the ecig, the Kennedy and the Waxman bills... apparently you may be the one to come to when/if I have questions?

 

[yvilla]

Yvilla i do not think you really understood what I was trying to say.

I guess you're right - I don't understand why people keep wanting or expecting others to credit their made-up of whole cloth, fantasy land definitions of the term "socialism", when it has perfectly a good definition of its own.

That will be my last comment on this as well, as I really did mean it when I said I believe we should be concentrating on the issues at hand, and not the divisive issues of politics and socioeconomic theories.

 

[paladinx]

You can call a controlling power anything you want. A church, a government, a corporation. t it has nothing to do with regurgitating memorized facts or definitions and spitting them back up. Even if the definition is in oposition when you take it literally, the principle is what is important.

For instance pretend the word "cult" meant, an extreme group of followers of the catholic church. And there was a group forming called the nerdclan who were getting a large number of extreme followers who were heavily into reading harry potter books on the weekend. One could say, oh boy a cult is starting to form. But then you might get someone, probably from the nerdclan, who says NOOO!!! A cult is someone who follows the catholic church!!!! It dont fit the definition thus is it not a CULT!!! But the intelligent person would understand the reference by seeing a commonality between the two groups. Being an extremist and being a follower.

 

[Vapor Pete]

You can call a controlling power anything you want. A church, a government, a corporation. t it has nothing to do with regurgitating memorized facts or definitions and spitting them back up. Even if the definition is in oposition when you take it literally, the principle is what is important.

For instance pretend the word "cult" meant, an extreme group of followers of the catholic church. And there was a group forming called the nerdclan who were getting a large number of extreme followers who were heavily into reading harry potter books on the weekend. One could say, oh boy a cult is starting to form. But then you might get someone, probably from the nerdclan, who says NOOO!!! A cult is someone who follows the catholic church!!!! It dont fit the definition thus is it not a CULT!!! But the intelligent person would understand the reference by seeing a commonality between the two groups. Being an extremist and being a follower.

I dont get your expample, sorry. "Cult" has a definite meaning that leaves no room for confusion. It has been the religious zealots of the world who have turned the word into something it is not.

WEBSTER'S DICTIONARY:
Cult n. : A system of religous worship; pursuit of, or devotion to, some object. L. cultas

That definition states any form of systemized religion falls under the definition of cult. Catholic, protestant, satanism, hindu, all of them!

Now look at the subtle yet distictive difference that the catholic church has put on their version of the definition:

CATHOLIC DICTIONARY: *Bold added by me to show their own additions
CULT


A definite form of worship or of religious observance, sometimes rendered "cultus," especially when referring to the worship of saints. Also a particular religious group centered around some unusual belief, generally transient in duration and featuring some exotic or imported ritual and other practices. (Etym. Latin cultus, care, adoration; fromcolere, to cultivate.)



All items in this dictionary are from Fr. John Hardon's Modern Catholic Dictionary, © Eternal Life. Used with permission.

Sorry, Im just sick or the word cult being thrown around by people.
My best,
-VP

 

[paladinx]

ROFL vapor pete. You made me spit up coffee haha.

 

[Vapor Pete]

ROFL vapor pete. You made me spit up coffee haha.

Soorrryyy.... did I make you laugh, or were you laughing at me???8-o
My best,
-VP

 

[paladinx]

lol you made me laugh. That was exactly the response I would have written back if someone posted what I did .

 

[Vapor Pete]

lol you made me laugh. That was exactly the response I would have written back if someone posted what I did .

Ok, lol, pheew!
And btw, I wasnt throwing a shot at you by responding the way I did either, just so ya know. I know it was kinda off topic. At least you got a giggle from it
My best,
-VP

 

[paladinx]

I took your post as sarcastic humor. I am not a touchy person, if someone said hey paladin shut ur mouth u sound like a ......, id laugh and be like well maybe hes right! People get way too touchy on forums these days. We are all here for a purpose, some might be more pessimistic like me or paranoid, some might be gung ho and all for it. But in the end we need all types of people to make it successful.

regards

 

[Tallgirl1974]

I took your post as sarcastic humor. I am not a touchy person, if someone said hey paladin shut ur mouth u sound like a ......, id laugh and be like well maybe hes right! People get way too touchy on forums these days. We are all here for a purpose, some might be more pessimistic like me or paranoid, some might be gung ho and all for it. But in the end we need all types of people to make it successful.

regards

I would never say "hey paladin shut ur mouth u sound like a ......."
I would say "Hey, Paladin, shut your mouth, you sound like a ......."
(here is to hoping you can laugh!)
You guys were kiling me with the politics- it took mucho self restraint to not jump in.

 

[paladinx]

yeah im not big on english lol.

 

[Tallgirl1974]

yeah im not big on english lol.

Fine by me, I just hate slangish text talk, so I thought you'd be ok with me picking on ya.
My badness.
I was just trying to avoid the politics, man!

 

[Doc]

Capitalism starts to look more like socialism after time. If you look at a rigid definition of socialism and compare it to the US now, you might say no. But if you look at the big picture and the engine of socialism and its main points, then you will start to see that we head into this through different means. Think of it this way. Competition starts off strong it fuels the economy, after time companies get bigger and bigger sucking up the smaller ones, controlling entire industries. Then you have to understand that these huge companies are tied with the government more then people realize. So the separation between different companies competing, and more importantly the separation of the government and corporations starts to get much fainter till power becomes more centralized. Centralized in the sense that companies with tons of money, power and lobbyists now almost become the government because of their influence on legislation.

Wow! Nail on the head. Answer: free capitalism, less legislation.
Keep the government out of our business.