FDA being sued by VTA

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AttyPops

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CMD-Ky

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zoiDman

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Woo hoo!!!! We have hope.

Say we Won, which is Kinda like Arron Rogers throwing 2 Hail Mary's with No Timeouts left, what would we Really Achieve?

Going from being on the Green Mile to being on the Green Mile and a Half?
 

Rossum

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Say we Won, which is Kinda like Arron Rogers throwing 2 Hail Mary's with No Timeouts left, what would we Really Achieve?
I suppose the PMTA deadline might get pushed back to 2021/2022, where it was prior to the AAP et al decision?

Reality: We've been on borrowed time since 8/8/2018 (the original deadline).
 

zoiDman

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I suppose the PMTA deadline might get pushed back to 2021/2022, where it was prior to the AAP et al decision?

Reality: We've been on borrowed time since 8/8/2018 (the original deadline).

Yeah... that is about the Long and the Short of it.

If I felt that there was some Pro Advocacy Momentum building, or if the Media would get tired of throwing e-Cigarettes Under the Bus, or if we could just Hold Off until some New Legislation or Political Leadership could come to bare, I would be More Positive.

But to be Honest with you, all those Curves are pointing Down. And seem to be Decreasing at an Increasing Rate.

And an Argument could be that Maybe it would be Better to have the PMTA Drop Dead Date occur in this Cycle? Verses in the Next?

I Dunno.
 

Rossum

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If I felt that there was some Pro Advocacy Momentum building, or if the Media would get tired of throwing e-Cigarettes Under the Bus, or if we could just Hold Off until some New Legislation or Political Leadership could come to bare, I would be More Positive.
It seems the media is anything but tired of doing that. Just look at the hysteria they're stirring up over a couple of dozen youngsters hospitalized with lung problems ostensibly due to vaping.

And an Argument could be that Maybe it would be Better to have the PMTA Drop Dead Date occur in this Cycle? Verses in the Next?
I think in the end, the real question will be: How much effort will they put into enforcement?

The fact that something is illegal on the federal level does not mean the agency responsible for it will necessarily do much (or anything at all) to enforce against it.
 

zoiDman

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I think in the end, the real question will be: How much effort will they put into enforcement?

The fact that something is illegal on the federal level does not mean the agency responsible for it will necessarily do much (or anything at all) to enforce against it.

True... But where the Problem lies is that without a Clear Federal Policy/Enforcement, state policy makers will take it upon themselves to do what they Want. Or what they feel will get them the Most Votes from an Uninformed populous.
 

Rossum

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True... But where the Problem lies is that without a Clear Federal Policy/Enforcement, state policy makers will take it upon themselves to do what they Want. Or what they feel will get them the Most Votes from an Uninformed populous.
Agreed, but don't you think it would be better to vape-stuff readily available in some states rather than none at all?
 

zoiDman

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Agreed, but don't you think it would be better to vape-stuff readily available in some states rather than none at all?

Sure... that's a Captain Obvious type question.

But the FDA is going enforce the Deeming Regs. There's just Too Big of a Spot Light on them to Not. So it Isn't like Some States will be Unaffected while other are.

So in Many Ways, I would like to see the FDA just let the Hammer Drop. Because it would Slow Down much of what I see states doing.

Then the Feds can Tax e-Cigarettes. And the Tide can Turn.
 

CMD-Ky

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I think in the end, the real question will be: How much effort will they put into enforcement?

The fact that something is illegal on the federal level does not mean the agency responsible for it will necessarily do much (or anything at all) to enforce against it.

This unenthusiastic enforcement has been my fervent hope all along. On the other hand, the FDA has some important responsibilities and it does many of them rather poorly. Most of this poor implementation is due to the financial intertwining of the regulated and the regulator as well as the revolving door of employment by the agency and the industry.
With vaping, there will be nearly no financial intertwining nor will there be appreciable employment revolving door between the agency and the regulated industry (with the exception of tobacco companies involved in vaping). This leads me to think that rousting a bunch vapers with a photographic walk in cuffs to save children will garner the FDA some good publicity. It won't take much to intimidate most businesses, they are in it for profit. Fines, shut downs or prosecution will have, as the phrase goes, a "chilling" effect.

True... But where the Problem lies is that without a Clear Federal Policy/Enforcement, state policy makers will take it upon themselves to do what they Want. Or what they feel will get them the Most Votes from an Uninformed populous

I live in a generally rural state. We will get oppressive anti-vaping laws which in Lexington, Louisville, Bowling Green, various college towns and the amalgamation of small cities known collectively as Northern Kentucky will be intermittently but vigorously enforced. Where I live, ID will be checked at gas stations or bans enforced intermittently and as vigorously as the financial incentive to enforce will encourage.
 

englishmick

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Sure... that's a Captain Obvious type question.

But the FDA is going enforce the Deeming Regs. There's just Too Big of a Spot Light on them to Not. So it Isn't like Some States will be Unaffected while other are.

So in Many Ways, I would like to see the FDA just let the Hammer Drop. Because it would Slow Down much of what I see states doing.

Then the Feds can Tax e-Cigarettes. And the Tide can Turn.

I think it's possible that the FDA will use their enforcement power specifically against teen vaping. That's where the political rewards are concentrated. Closing down adult vaping has less benefit and some potential cost. After a complete ban all those shock headlines might be about ex-smokers getting forced back to smoking by a heartless government.
 

zoiDman

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I think it's possible that the FDA will use their enforcement power specifically against teen vaping. ...

The FDA knows, just like We know, just like Anyone who Follows this knows, that the FDA can do VERY Little to have a Meaningful effect on Teen Vaping.

And the Little they Can Do with Adversely effect Adult users seeking Harm Reduction.

Sure, you can put Lipstick on the Pig and run a bunch of Sappy TV Commercials. Or dump Truckloads of Money into the School Systems (that would be Better Spent in Other areas) on "Preventative Programs".

But the Inconvenient Truth is All these efforts are just that, efforts. And just aren't going to have a Significant Impact on Habitual Use. Only Time is going get the Percentages down to a Normal Baseline.

That and when the Number Cruncher's decide it is Time to portray more Realistic Teen Use results.

Don't get me Wrong. I'm about the Last Person that wants to see Teens/Minors using an e-Cigarette. But I'm also a Realist.
 
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