Fda crackdown looms

[Spikey]

Persoanally, I think we need to get the Geraldo Rivera's of the media involved to point out the irony and hypocrisy of our Federal Government. Clearly, the FDA's motivation for banning e-cigs is suspect given that regulation of taobacco cigarettes has been absent for as long as they've been in existence, even with the knowledge that they're putting over 4000 nasty chemicals in them. Only now that Philip Morris is behind regulation does the government have a fighting chance of regulating tobacco products, and they very well still may lose that battle. Make no mistake, this has nothing to do with the public's best interest or the public's health. This is purely about money and greed, whether it be the Feds that are ...... because they're missing out on the potential tax revenue, or big tobacco missing out on their actual revenue. Big Brother is only getting bigger. In MA, they're actually considering putting a chip in our registration tags for our license plates so they can tax our mileage. Funny thing about that is that they'll need to track where we are going to get that information...I don't like what's happening here one bit...

Ultimately, what we may end up having to do is getting a group of us together, get a decent lawyer who may be interested in taking this on pro se, and taking it all the way tot he Supreme Court if necessary. This may seem a little over board to some of you, but when do we, as Americans, say enough is enough? This is our country, not theirs...this is supposed to be a government for the people, not a government for the Lobbyist. Ultimately the constitution is on our side! You know what though, I don't even think it would get that far. I think one District Judge could shoot down the FDA and that would be enough to make them back off.

Of course we could also lay low and hope for the best...like Thomas Jefferson did in the mid 1700's.

bri is right... media is the way to go.

Lawyers can only help when the judges are not paid off to "disallow" the cases.... but MEDIA!!!

Well... media.. when you find someone who stands by principles and freedoms... and when they will get notoriety for breaking a big story and showing the govt as "conspirators"... they actually get wet or hard in their panties and nothign can keep them away from the story. SO... we need to find a smoker in a power position in the media in a major company and convert them to personal vaporizers... then we need to show them that it is a conspiracy to cost lives and $ of the American people!

THAT my friends... should be the plan! If you know of any news anchors or reporters who smoke.. order them a starter kit and send them a card with the address for these boards lol

 

[The Wiz]

Persoanally, I think we need to get the Geraldo Rivera's of the media involved to point out the irony and hypocrisy of our Federal Government.

Lets get Fox new involved....Hannity,Glen Beck ect. They will blame Obama and be sympathetic to our needs.Rush Limbaugh could help out tooThe Wiz!

 

[Bruceslog]

Didn't that show " The Doctors" recently give e-cigs a thumbs up ?
How can we use that ?

 

[stpeters]

I have some tobacco seed. If I could find a safe way of extracting nicotine from any plants that I may grow, I would be a happy man.

I would hazard that homegrown tobacco made into filter cigarettes (they have kits, google 'cigarette tubes') are still "safer" then store bought, chemically treated cigs.

Randy's Tobacco Shop in Indianapolis, Indiana- Premium tobacco products at affordable prices for your enjoyment!
Tubes

But yeah, given that the "sale and marketing of electronic cigarettes" may be illegal, not the "sale and marketing of parts that may be used to make electronic cigarettes" - we need a simple way to brew cured tobacco leaves into smoking liquid.

 

[QueenInNC]

Didn't that show " The Doctors" recently give e-cigs a thumbs up ?
How can we use that ?

Yes, they did! Speaking of news anchors... maybe Peter Jennings would have lived longer if he'd been vaping!

 

[The Wiz]

Yes, they did! Speaking of news anchors... maybe Peter Jennings woud have lived longer if he'd been vaping!

Touche Queen!The Wiz!

 

[e-pipeman]

I would hazard that homegrown tobacco made into filter cigarettes (they have kits, google 'cigarette tubes') are still "safer" then store bought, chemically treated cigs.

Randy's Tobacco Shop in Indianapolis, Indiana- Premium tobacco products at affordable prices for your enjoyment!
Tubes

But yeah, given that the "sale and marketing of electronic cigarettes" is illegal, not the "sale and marketing of parts that may be used to make electronic cigarettes" - we need a simple way to brew cured tobacco leaves into smoking liquid.

I'm sure that you're right about the cigarettes, although I'd rather not smoke any nowadays.

I'm not sure that you'd need to cure the tobacco leaf to obtain nicotine from it. I think curing has more to do with making the leaf smokable, preserving it and enhancing flavour compounds.

 

[green-lantern]

Why wouldn't it work? He's not talking about suing Big Tobacco, he's talking about suing the FDA. Per my previous post, I'm on board 100%, and not just because of e-cigs...this goes much deeper than that, our government has taken more than it's share of my liberties, and I'm not going to sit back and let them do it any longer.

I agree! Why not? They are taking away something that appears to be healthy as caffeine so we have to go back to something that is a known killer. With these idiots logic they don’t want to give a serial killer a rubber knife but its ok to keep using a real one! WTF!

 

[SilverBraids]

OK y'all... here's my rough draft of what I want to send... corrections are welcome...
To Whom It May Concern:

My name is Glenn Orr of Memphis TN. There are a few things I thought I should bring to your attention. I was a cigarette smoker for about 12 years until I discovered just recently the e-cigarette. This is a smoking cessation assistant. The device is very simple, yet the U.S. Food and Drug Administration seems intent on making sure this product is banned from the United States. This technology was developed in China and has spread extremely quickly around the globe. Great Britain, Australia, Hong Kong, China, Japan, all have this product in the public eye, and in some cases, fear of not understanding, and not wanting to understand the concept or the device has led to its ban. Allow me to simplify this device for you. While some models can resemble a cigarette, some do not. There are also models that resemble classic pipes and cigars as well, but they all have the same basic function. There is a battery which powers an atomizer. The atomizer is barely more than a piece of wire wound around several times into a coil. The atomizer makes contact with a wad of polyester material soaked in what is known in the trade as ‘e-Juice’. This is a mix of either Vegetable Glycerin or Propelyne Glycol, nicotine, and an all natural flavoring as the user likes. Upon smoking, as one would an actual cigarette, microsensors in the battery turn the switch on which creates a short in the atomizer coil heating up the filament wire to a temperature high enough to vaporize the liquid it’s made contact. This vapor is what is inhaled, taking the place of cigarette smoke and it’s thousands of poisons and carcinogens and replacing it with inert materials and nicotine. While nicotine in it’s raw form is a poison, every person who has made a purchase of this e-Juice has been made aware of it’s dangers, as there are more warnings when purchasing the e-Juice than there are when one purchases a pack of cigarettes. This device has helped thousands quit smoking and reduced the risk of cancer, heart attack, and stroke in these individuals. I am one such person. I have quit tobacco because of this device. I feel we owe it to the safety of our nation, and possibly the world, to allow these devices to be marketed, even further tested for the validity and potential to cut the cancer rate of this country, if not in half, then completely! This device still allows a delivery of nicotine with none, if any, harmful carcinogens in the carrier. I am not a distributor of these devices, nor am I endorsed or endorsing a particular brand. I bring this to your attention for investigation and approval, not fear, mistrust, and expulsion. I challenge the United States Food and Drug Administration, as well as the World Health Organization to put this device to the exact same tests as tobacco and compare the results, and make them public. Tobacco has cost enough lives and tax dollars in lawsuits. Let us make the choice to turn away from tobacco and to a healthier alternative. I can be reached at this e-mail address for further correspondence.

Sincerely,

Glenn A. Orr

 

[bri1270]

SO... we need to find a smoker in a power position in the media in a major company and convert them to personal

1600 Pennsylvania Avenue would be a good place to start.

 

[Obi Wan]

Or maybe this is the workings of our Big Tobacco buddies..WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING TO STOP THIS...I see posts on here that has been viewed more than 22,000 times on one single thread..How many members do we actually have World-wide on this forum alone??? Surely with our outstanding numbers we can do something about this bullsh*t.
Being pollution free, harmless and odorless to others and the environment, containing only 3 main ingredients of 4,000 to a regular cigarette. We can have so many pressing arguments and key elements to stop electronic cigarettes from being illegal. WE NEED TO MAKE OUR VOICES HEARD!

That makes sense to me as the best option..

 

[TribbleTrouble]

The juice is the root of our FDA problem. It is because of the liquid being sold directly with the device that the device is now a part of a "Drug/Device Combination" according to the FDA. I have written on several posts that if the manufacturers would separate the liquid from the device at the point of sale, we could possibly sidestep any real effects that a ban would have. The term "Electronic Cigarette", though, has locked the device to the liquid. Therefore, a name change for the device should also be made to separate its connection to the liquid. A "...." is only a "...." if you market it as something that you put pot in. If you call it a "Water Pipe", and do not give any instruction on what to put in it, then it is just a device (free of illegal intent). I truly believe that could be our answer to get past what is coming for our devices, but so many on this forum think that the idea is ridiculous. There are, however, some suppliers/retailers that are already making the change.

 

[stpeters]

Lets get Fox new involved....Hannity,Glen Beck ect. They will blame Obama and be sympathetic to our needs.Rush Limbaugh could help out tooThe Wiz!

This tactic may end up getting the message and the messenger confused, which could end up disastrous to our cause.

There are lots of things the Fox news bunch and Rush championed that never happened since many will appose anything they say merely on principal. Plus, the right wing already would be mostly sympathetic to us, so it would be preaching to the choir.

Now get someone like Oprah to vouch for this and ask some hard questions of the FDA... that might work.

 

[QueenInNC]

OK y'all... here's my rough draft of what I want to send... corrections are welcome...
To Whom It May Concern:

My name is Glenn Orr of Memphis TN. There are a few things I thought I should bring to your attention. I was a cigarette smoker for about 12 years until I discovered just recently the e-cigarette. This is a smoking cessation assistant. The device is very simple, yet the U.S. Food and Drug Administration seems intent on making sure this product is banned from the United States. This technology was developed in China and has spread extremely quickly around the globe. Great Britain, Australia, Hong Kong, China, Japan, all have this product in the public eye, and in some cases, fear of not understanding, and not wanting to understand the concept or the device has led to its ban. Allow me to simplify this device for you. While some models can resemble a cigarette, some do not. There are also models that resemble classic pipes and cigars as well, but they all have the same basic function. There is a battery which powers an atomizer. The atomizer is barely more than a piece of wire wound around several times into a coil. The atomizer makes contact with a wad of polyester material soaked in what is known in the trade as ‘e-Juice’. This is a mix of either Vegetable Glycerin or Propelyne Glycol, nicotine, and an all natural flavoring as the user likes. Upon smoking, as one would an actual cigarette, microsensors in the battery turn the switch on which creates a short in the atomizer coil heating up the filament wire to a temperature high enough to vaporize the liquid it’s made contact. This vapor is what is inhaled, taking the place of cigarette smoke and it’s thousands of poisons and carcinogens and replacing it with inert materials and nicotine. While nicotine in it’s raw form is a poison, every person who has made a purchase of this e-Juice has been made aware of it’s dangers, as there are more warnings when purchasing the e-Juice than there are when one purchases a pack of cigarettes. This device has helped thousands quit smoking and reduced the risk of cancer, heart attack, and stroke in these individuals. I am one such person. I have quit tobacco because of this device. I feel we owe it to the safety of our nation, and possibly the world, to allow these devices to be marketed, even further tested for the validity and potential to cut the cancer rate of this country, if not in half, then completely! This device still allows a delivery of nicotine with none, if any, harmful carcinogens in the carrier. I am not a distributor of these devices, nor am I endorsed or endorsing a particular brand. I bring this to your attention for investigation and approval, not fear, mistrust, and expulsion. I challenge the United States Food and Drug Administration, as well as the World Health Organization to put this device to the exact same tests as tobacco and compare the results, and make them public. Tobacco has cost enough lives and tax dollars in lawsuits. Let us make the choice to turn away from tobacco and to a healthier alternative. I can be reached at this e-mail address for further correspondence.

Sincerely,

Glenn A. Orr

That sounds good! I am not much of a proofreader, and you may already do this, but I would use paragraphs in the final draft. This is kind of hard to read.

 

[bri1270]

Is there a professional writer among us? If so, maybe you could draft a form letter that we can all use to send to congressmen, senators, FDA, news and so on. We need to be as organised and professional as possible. We don't want to come off as a bunch of rag tag crack heads looking to keep their fix legal.

 

[Lorddrek]

I am sorry to be so blunt. It is how I am. But at the end of the day the facts still remain. Lets go down a few of them.

1) Technology from China- This alone raises all sorts of questions. Have we forgotten the Melamine milk scandal? Anyone see the report about pork dumplings sold on the street with cardboard used as filler? Just because they made it and some people use it does not make it safe.

2) Propolyne Glycol- This is a major component of some radiator fluids. That is a fact. While it is presently used in food products ingesting is far different than inhaling. If you are unsure about this try eating a pack of cigarettes and see what happens. More research on inhaling this over long terms is not unreasonable.

3) Vegetable Glycerin- Sounds good on the surface right. What harm could come veggie matter? Well castor bean extract is called ricin and minute amounts will kill you. This is another fact. Apparently if VG is heated enough it too becomes a poison. Atomizers claimed temps being below this do not make me feel comfortable. once again more research is needed.

4) Nicotine- Oh man! Just the mention of this one gets many folks up in arms. If it ain't taxed it's regulated by our ever caring government. This is a drug folks and we will slapped with one or the other. Just because other herbal extracts have survived without being banned or regulated this will not happen with nicotine extract. It is far too well known and chained to the evil known as "Cancer Sticks".

I will continue to play around with this vaping. It's pretty cool and the wife seems to be willing to replace it for analogs. I am the kind some seem to worry about. I actually stopped smoking over 6 months ago and am now vaping nicotine. Sad but true. So perhaps this is a legitimate concern?

I hate to think I am arming the wrong side by talking about this realisticly such as I have. Perhaps this is why many on this board seem so short sighted and opinionated. They are just trying extra hard to protect something potentially very cool. I just don't operate that way.

I would bet any amount of money that vaping is safer than analogs both short and long term. But vaping coming without any health risks whatsoever I highly doubt. Not even taking into account what nicotine does to your health.

I think vaping would really blossom with proper research and marketing but I cringe when I think of the players who want to make that happen. Big lobbies and government are rarely healthy for anyone.

Lorddrek

 

[Spikey]

Is there a professional writer among us? If so, maybe you could draft a form letter that we can all use to send to congressmen, senators, FDA, news and so on. We need to be as organised and professional as possible. We don't want to come off as a bunch of rag tag crack heads looking to keep their fix legal.

I have written some books and articles and I do book editing as a side job... but Tropical Bob is the most well written and respected of us all.. that is why there are a few threads where we nominate him as the "honorary leader" lol

 

[bri1270]

The juice is the root of our FDA problem. It is because of the liquid being sold directly with the device that the device is now a part of a "Drug/Device Combination" according to the FDA. I have written on several posts that if the manufacturers would separate the liquid from the device at the point of sale, we could possibly sidestep any real effects that a ban would have. The term "Electronic Cigarette", though, has locked the device to the liquid. Therefore, a name change for the device should also be made to separate its connection to the liquid. A "...." is only a "...." if you market it as something that you put pot in. If you call it a "Water Pipe", and do not give any instruction on what to put in it, then it is just a device (free of illegal intent). I truly believe that could be our answer to get past what is coming for our devices, but so many on this forum think that the idea is ridiculous. There are, however, some suppliers/retailers that are already making the change.

Although I agree in principal, and this may be the best alternative route. I am simply tired of finding loopholes through things that the government really shouldn't be prohibiting. I'm all for the safety and protection of American citizens, and if the FDA merely wanted to regulate juice, then they would have my fullest support. What they're doing is pandering, nothing more.

 

[Spikey]

I am sorry to be so blunt. It is how I am. But at the end of the day the facts still remain. Lets go down a few of them.

1) Technology from China- This alone raises all sorts of questions. Have we forgotten the Melamine milk scandal? Anyone see the report about pork dumplings sold on the street with cardboard used as filler? Just because they made it and some people use it does not make it safe.

2) Propolyne Glycol- This is a major component of some radiator fluids. That is a fact. While it is presently used in food products ingesting is far different than inhaling. If you are unsure about this try eating a pack of cigarettes and see what happens. More research on inhaling this over long terms is not unreasonable.

3) Vegetable Glycerin- Sounds good on the surface right. What harm could come veggie matter? Well castor bean extract is called ricin and minute amounts will kill you. This is another fact. Apparently if VG is heated enough it too becomes a poison. Atomizers claimed temps being below this do not make me feel comfortable. once again more research is needed.

4) Nicotine- Oh man! Just the mention of this one gets many folks up in arms. If it ain't taxed it's regulated by our ever caring government. This is a drug folks and we will slapped with one or the other. Just because other herbal extracts have survived without being banned or regulated this will not happen with nicotine extract. It is far too well known and chained to the evil known as "Cancer Sticks".

I will continue to play around with this vaping. It's pretty cool and the wife seems to be willing to replace it for analogs. I am the kind some seem to worry about. I actually stopped smoking over 6 months ago and am now vaping nicotine. Sad but true. So perhaps this is a legitimate concern?

I hate to think I am arming the wrong side by talking about this realisticly such as I have. Perhaps this is why many on this board seem so short sighted and opinionated. They are just trying extra hard to protect something potentially very cool. I just don't operate that way.

I would bet any amount of money that vaping is safer than analogs both short and long term. But vaping coming without any health risks whatsoever I highly doubt. Not even taking into account what nicotine does to your health.

I think vaping would really blossom with proper research and marketing but I cringe when I think of the players who want to make that happen. Big lobbies and government are rarely healthy for anyone.

Lorddrek

Lorddrek,

We all tend to get very enthusiastic around here and it is important to have someone bringing us back to reality on occasion... so your post is much appreciated... but once you get sucked in... you will see it is hard to be objective and realize that reality is harsh! LOL

(You are well on your way... telling us that you are sure it is safer than smoking lol!)

 

[bri1270]

I have written some books and articles and I do book editing as a side job... but Tropical Bob is the most well written and respected of us all.. that is why there are a few threads where we nominate him as the "honorary leader" lol

If TB wants to be involved and has some wisdom to share (I'm actually surprised he hasn't chimed in on this thread yet), I'm all for it. He's certainly well spoken and thoughtful in his posts. I tend to be a tad emotional (if you hadn't noticed), so anything I wrote would be inflammatory and entirely counterproductive to the cause.