My 'addiction' to incandescent lightbulbs was taken care of by the federal government.
My 'addiction' to freedom is not so open to any such 'cure'.
My 'addiction' to freedom is not so open to any such 'cure'.
FDA delivers Final Deeming Rule to OIRA
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I wouldn't say "proved just the opposite" - but it certainly made the case for no existing detectable gateway effect - which is now explicitly stated by UK gov.
Not that this is a surprise but reading through that, specifically the Summary of Research section, basically EVERYTHING is gone, it'll even crush the BT ciga-likes, at some point even the big boys will lose interest in jumping though hoops for a semi-limited market.
Its actually scary how well they've buttoned up everything, i mean, my god, an atomizer would have to be tested for aerosol particle size throughout its ENTIRE operating/draw range.
Detailed descriptions of how a mods software 'increases/decreases the risk profile'. Seriously?
A mod/tank combo looks like it would need about 50-75 'studies' before it is even able to be brought to market.
I knew it would be bad but if this goes through as is, it truly is the end of vaping, and those who see that as fear-mongering are just plain ignorant.
It is worse than I anticipated. As it includes eLiquid, and if a de facto ban is a result, then the 99.5% is (way way way) conservative of a number, given there are way way way more flavors than all other product types combined.
At same time, the genie is out of the bottle. The legal market will take the hit, and that assumes zero law suits and no political fight over it. But to think an underground market / DIY won't flourish is (as you said) just plain ignorant.
I would like to know where the "leaked" document came from. Mr. DmA posted it I think and noted "if this is for real......."
Yet,
It is interesting to me that nobody has even asked.
It is interesting to me that nobody has even set out to determine the veracity of this leaked document. Or where it came from.
Interesting because on this forum, we members will argue down a mean cornered bear over the slightest thing........yet, nobody even QUESTIONED where this document came from, first appeared, etc.
To me, that is sort of a shame.
yet it's intellectual dishonesty to post a photo of a blown up ecig because everyone WILL say it was photoshopped, etc.
Just sayin' *usually* there is some notion to verify things that are posted......verify the contents as well as verify where it came from.
There must've been 100+ responses to a popular vendor has test results posted on ejuice.....ripping it apart.
Yet.....total silence on this document. Hmmmm............nobody EVEN ASKED.
Yet,
It is interesting to me that nobody has even asked.
It is interesting to me that nobody has even set out to determine the veracity of this leaked document. Or where it came from.
Interesting because on this forum, we members will argue down a mean cornered bear over the slightest thing........yet, nobody even QUESTIONED where this document came from, first appeared, etc.
To me, that is sort of a shame.
yet it's intellectual dishonesty to post a photo of a blown up ecig because everyone WILL say it was photoshopped, etc.
Just sayin' *usually* there is some notion to verify things that are posted......verify the contents as well as verify where it came from.
There must've been 100+ responses to a popular vendor has test results posted on ejuice.....ripping it apart.
Yet.....total silence on this document. Hmmmm............nobody EVEN ASKED.
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I think this is something the pro-vape advocates in the front lines have been asking for years now because let's face it only a small minority have become directly involved in this fight and many of them not until it jumped up and bit them in their own back yard and/or threatened their pocketbook.... rather amazing given how long this has been going on (at all levels of government) the shock and horror just now being expressed in the final hours.
I believe that was April's submission, prior to public comment. I don't believe they have to make the Final available to the public until after it is approved by OMB/OIRA, but could be wrong.
That seems about par for the course, keeps us in the dark til they have made their decision.
Thank you for clearing that up for me Lessifer.
Thank you for clearing that up for me Lessifer.
It's interesting to me how few post there have been around ECF on the topic since it got delivered to the OBM. I think there's an awful lot of folks that don't realize how close this brings us to actually having a Deeming Order in place.
Okay, newsworthy, but not necessarily actionable. For now it seems like the best bet is still the Cole bill. I've already broadcast that CTA a number of times.
Yeah... Have you seen the threads around here about how vaping costs more than smoking? Only to a person incapable of exercising restraint over the "shinyitis" bug -- for anyone with a grown-up approach to spending money, vaping is LOADS cheaper. Sure, I *COULD* spend a whole lot... but why? The setup I use now is absolutely perfect, I have no need to keep buying tons of crap just because it's shiny. Providing Innokin is still with us next year, I'll grab another couple of coolfire4's, just because I try to buy a few new mods every year as a hedge against electronics-death -- but so far, every one I've bought still works.
Andria
This is the double edged sword of vaping though. I vape on the cheap. I don't DIY but even without that I only spend a few hundred annually on gear AND juice. It is incredibly difficult to have a growth industry when people don't have to buy stuff. Yes you can DIY for pennies a day, but if everyone did that, what would happen to the juice vendors that provide for the newbies and those who don't want to DIY? It's great that vaping on the cheap is an option, I just hope, for the sake of the industry, that most people find a balance.Yeah... Have you seen the threads around here about how vaping costs more than smoking? Only to a person incapable of exercising restraint over the "shinyitis" bug -- for anyone with a grown-up approach to spending money, vaping is LOADS cheaper. Sure, I *COULD* spend a whole lot... but why? The setup I use now is absolutely perfect, I have no need to keep buying tons of crap just because it's shiny. Providing Innokin is still with us next year, I'll grab another couple of coolfire4's, just because I try to buy a few new mods every year as a hedge against electronics-death -- but so far, every one I've bought still works.
Andria
Of course, if the industry gets regulated down to pre-filled carts/tanks, the DIY market will explode.
As I understand it. Rules/Rule Sets that are considered to be "Significant" are Not Bound to the 90 Days OMB/OIRA time limit.
And the proposed FDA Deeming is considered to be Significant.
And the proposed FDA Deeming is considered to be Significant.
I agree that those are the folks who will suffer most, but I don't think the number of them will remain unchanged; the changeover from tobacco to vapor may happen a lot more slowly than it has been happening so far, but as long as there are some of us out there vaping, *visibly*, it won't be truly dead -- and when we don't get sick and die as all the ANTZ have sworn that we will, it will be noticed -- and public pressure *can* cause changes to occur.
And also there's the fact of the black market -- many of us with a surplus in the freezer will be willing to underwrite friends who want to switch, so the freezer surplus isn't truly irrelevant.
Andria
You are going to have to be more specific Steve instead of making more vague accusations. I have kept up on the calls to action and I have seen none of the sensationalism you are accusing CASAA of doing. You need to give specific examples if you expect anyone to take you serious.
Of course I see you are still pushing the idea that we are all just addiction driven paranoids. Do you really want to go down that road Steve. A lot of what you are saying is straight out of the anti's playbook. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, it probably is a duck. So far you are attacking essentially all of the legitimate THR advocates, accusing people of being addiction driven paranoids, and telling us flat out lies about the deeming regulation.
I have no idea of what your agenda is but it doesn't look good.
Did you not see what happened when Hostess shut down? Talk about hoarding, not a Twinkie to be found anywhere lol! Now that was a fear of loss of supply. You're gonna have to do better than that Stevo.
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Now you are being argumentative. Supply chains for consumers can be established just as they are for tobacco. Pilot projects that study how to speed up the process could be pursued by entities like the Gates Foundation if they were interested. The extreme cost advantage of ecigs is a huge help. That will be discovered over time. Demand will grow. Entrepreneurs will gear up to meet demand. This will happen every where there is smoking. The issue is how fast it will happen.
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