FDA delivers Final Deeming Rule to OIRA

Status
Not open for further replies.

AndriaD

Reviewer / Blogger
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jan 24, 2014
21,253
50,806
63
LawrencevilleGA
angryvaper.crypticsites.com
This is the double edged sword of vaping though. I vape on the cheap. I don't DIY but even without that I only spend a few hundred annually on gear AND juice. It is incredibly difficult to have a growth industry when people don't have to buy stuff. Yes you can DIY for pennies a day, but if everyone did that, what would happen to the juice vendors that provide for the newbies and those who don't want to DIY? It's great that vaping on the cheap is an option, I just hope, for the sake of the industry, that most people find a balance.

Of course, if the industry gets regulated down to pre-filled carts/tanks, the DIY market will explode.

It certainly will. And I know, there are some people who either don't want to DIY, or who've tried it and haven't (yet) had their 'eureka!' moment.... some people couldn't cook if their life depended on it. :D But you're right, if those idiots really restrict vaping liquids to those pre-filled cartos... we're soon going to have a whole world of ejuice virtuosos.

As for hardware... I do buy some, from time to time -- I buy cheap (clones for attys, inexpensive brands for mods) -- but I do still buy. But the people who say that vaping costs more than smoking.... someone really needs to confiscate their credit card, because it's really not vaping that is the problem.

Andria
 

AndriaD

Reviewer / Blogger
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jan 24, 2014
21,253
50,806
63
LawrencevilleGA
angryvaper.crypticsites.com
The usual suspect senators are pushing to get the deeming process as fast as possible.

http://www.merkley.senate.gov/news/...rettes-and-other-unregulated-tobacco-products

This is the critical part



If the grandfather date is not moved the deeming is in reality a ban and essentially all current vaping products on the market will be gone. The premarket review is a catch-22 that makes it virtually impossible to do.

I would guess that the guys pushing for that are the ones with their hands most deeply embedded in the pockets of the 'vested interests' -- i.e., the most corrupt ones.

So, now that they've been so kind as to identify themselves, we can get rid of them. I vote for guillotines.

Andria
 
  • Like
Reactions: skoony

lpboyle

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Apr 29, 2010
125
447
Louisville, KY USA
The usual suspect senators are pushing to get the deeming process as fast as possible.

http://www.merkley.senate.gov/news/...rettes-and-other-unregulated-tobacco-products

Thanks for the link @Stubby

Given I just quit smoking by going to vaping I am seriously bothered by this bit:

...the Senators also urged OMB to ensure that the final rule includes strong regulations to help prevent youth tobacco ... including a minimum age standard, limits on advertising, health warnings on the products, bans on the use of flavorings...
 

AndriaD

Reviewer / Blogger
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jan 24, 2014
21,253
50,806
63
LawrencevilleGA
angryvaper.crypticsites.com
Thanks for the link @Stubby

Given I just quit smoking by going to vaping I am seriously bothered by this bit:

Which is why so many of us have moved to DIY ejuice -- if you mix your own, then it really doesn't matter one bit what laws they pass about flavorings.

Andria
 

sofarsogood

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Oct 12, 2014
5,553
14,167
This is the double edged sword of vaping though. I vape on the cheap. I don't DIY but even without that I only spend a few hundred annually on gear AND juice. It is incredibly difficult to have a growth industry when people don't have to buy stuff. Yes you can DIY for pennies a day, but if everyone did that, what would happen to the juice vendors that provide for the newbies and those who don't want to DIY? It's great that vaping on the cheap is an option, I just hope, for the sake of the industry, that most people find a balance.

Of course, if the industry gets regulated down to pre-filled carts/tanks, the DIY market will explode.
If you make terrible money in some developing nation and you're a smoker the cheap skate approach may be a life saver. There is going to be a carraige trade that wants stuff because it's expensive and there are going to be penny pinchers. I'm talking up penny pinching to demoralize the tax collectors and draw attention to the money issues. But let's say all 1.3 billion smokers switched and spent, as a whole, $100 a year. $100 x 1.3 billions smokers = a $130 billion market. Lets say half of that is hardware so that part of the market is $65 b-b-b-billion. Not too shabby. I want vapers to have DIY capability so we are more resiliant, better able to resist political extortion. So don't mix, just put 50 bucks worth of nic in the freezer so you can't be bullied.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Just Me

Stubby

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Apr 22, 2009
2,104
1,992
Madison, WI USA
The federal government is pretty much shut down for the year concerning things like this. Next year is a campaign year, so nothing drastic will happen. I'm guessing Hillary will push the FDA in 2018 to do something...

That really has nothing to do with the deeming regulation. This very likely will happen late this year or early next year, and it certainly will not be stretched out until the next administration.

Thanks for the link @Stubby

Given I just quit smoking by going to vaping I am seriously bothered by this bit:

...the Senators also urged OMB to ensure that the final rule includes strong regulations to help prevent youth tobacco ... including a minimum age standard, limits on advertising, health warnings on the products, bans on the use of flavorings...

If the worst thing that happens is a ban on flavors, some labeling and childproof guidelines, a ban on advertising similar to cigarettes, and no sales to minors, we would have to consider ourselves very fortunate. Far worse is a ban on everything, which is what the original proposed deeming was. We shall see if it has been changed. There are fairly easy workarounds for the flavors using unflavored liquid. It is pretty hard to do workarounds when there is nothing to work with.

Listen up folks, lets keep the chatter about how many liters of liquid you have in the deep freeze out of this thread. This isn't about you, this is about the 40 plus million folks who still smoke, and if the deeming is a bad as originally advertised that number will essentially remain unchanged.
 

lpboyle

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Apr 29, 2010
125
447
Louisville, KY USA
@Stubby good point. Given I smoked for almost 25 years and just successfully switched to vaping - I'm still a bit "kid in a candy store" with all the variety out there.

Yes, overly strict FDA regulation could kill the entire vape industry and leave a lot of smokers in the clutches of the "noxious weed."
 
  • Like
Reactions: grandmato5

stevegmu

Moved On
ECF Veteran
May 10, 2013
11,630
12,348
6992 kilometers from home...
That really has nothing to do with the deeming regulation. This very likely will happen late this year or early next year, and it certainly will not be stretched out until the next administration.





If the worst thing that happens is a ban on flavors, some labeling and childproof guidelines, a ban on advertising similar to cigarettes, and no sales to minors, we would have to consider ourselves very fortunate. Far worse is a ban on everything, which is what the original proposed deeming was. We shall see if it has been changed. There are fairly easy workarounds for the flavors using unflavored liquid. It is pretty hard to do workarounds when there is nothing to work with.

Listen up folks, lets keep the chatter about how many liters of liquid you have in the deep freeze out of this thread. This isn't about you, this is about the 40 plus million folks who still smoke, and if the deeming is a bad as originally advertised that number will essentially remain unchanged.


For the last 3 years, the FDA was set to 'ban' vaping tomorrow. I don't believe anything will happen anytime soon...
Advertised by who? Fearmongerers and vendors? I think most have not even read the proposals...
 

Stubby

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Apr 22, 2009
2,104
1,992
Madison, WI USA
For the last 3 years, the FDA was set to 'ban' vaping tomorrow. I don't believe anything will happen anytime soon...
Advertised by who? Fearmongerers and vendors? I think most have not even read the proposals...
Holy crap Steve, what planet are you living on.

The FDA has not been set to "ban vaping tomorrow for the last three years". If that is what you think has been happening then you have completely misread it. What has happened is the FDA has been going through the process of regulating vaping. That process is now in step 8 of 9 steps. It is not fear mongering, its reality.

We have already seen the original proposed regulation, and that regulation would for all practical purposes be a ban on all currently available products. The only question is if there are any real changes in the current proposal and what the while house is going to do with it.
 

stevegmu

Moved On
ECF Veteran
May 10, 2013
11,630
12,348
6992 kilometers from home...
Holy crap Steve, what planet are you living on.

The FDA has not been set to "ban vaping tomorrow for the last three years". If that is what you think has been happening then you have completely misread it. What has happened is the FDA has been going through the process of regulating vaping. That process is now in step 8 of 9 steps. It is not fear mongering, its reality.

We have already seen the original proposed regulation, and that regulation would for all practical purposes be a ban on all currently available products. The only question is if there are any real changes in the current proposal and what the while house is going to do with it.

Reality...
I have read and understood the proposals and know nearly all the speculation concerning them is simply fear mongering and addiction driven paranoia...
 

Stubby

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Apr 22, 2009
2,104
1,992
Madison, WI USA
Reality...
I have read and understood the proposals and know nearly all the speculation concerning them is simply fear mongering and addiction driven paranoia...
You are going to have to clue us all in Steve, with your great knowledge and insight, on how having a grandfather date of February 15, 2007, and nothing allowed on the market that wasn't on the market before that date without going through an essentially impossible regulation process, is somehow fear mongering. That is exactly what the original proposed regulation would do.

I will trust the knowledge of folks like Bill Godshall and the people at CASAA over your other rather bizarre vague generalizations.
 

stevegmu

Moved On
ECF Veteran
May 10, 2013
11,630
12,348
6992 kilometers from home...
You are going to have to clue us all in Steve, with your great knowledge and insight, on how having a grandfather date of February 15, 2007, and nothing allowed on the market that wasn't on the market before that date without going through an essentially impossible regulation process, is somehow fear mongering. That is exactly what the original proposed regulation would do.

I will trust the knowledge of folks like Bill Godshall and the people at CASAA over your other rather bizarre vague generalizations.


That's not how the proposal reads, but I have read it and understand it...

You mean the one who set the model for anti vaping legislation and sentiment by trying to ban cigarettes and smoking?
I do understand the fear mongering is great for donations and sales, however...
 

Stubby

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Apr 22, 2009
2,104
1,992
Madison, WI USA
That's not how the proposal reads, but I have read it and understand it...

You mean the one who set the model for anti vaping legislation and sentiment by trying to ban cigarettes and smoking?
I do understand the fear mongering is great for donations and sales, however...
Okay, so now you are accusing CASAA of fear mongering for the sake of donations. Of course they are in it only for the money, even though the staff makes no money and put in many long hours. How can you expect anyone to take you serious when you show blatant ignorance of the subject at hand and attack the people with the most knowledge who are working there backsides off to advocate for us.

I would have to say at this point you appear to be a plant from the anti's. On rereading you post I am pretty certain of it. Calling anyone who disagrees with you as fear mongering and addiction driven paranoia...

You have lost all credibility.
 

stevegmu

Moved On
ECF Veteran
May 10, 2013
11,630
12,348
6992 kilometers from home...
Okay, so now you are accusing CASAA of fear mongering for the sake of donations. Of course they are in it only for the money, even though the staff makes no money and put in many long hours. How can you expect anyone to take you serious when you show blatant ignorance of the subject at hand and attack the people with the most knowledge who are working there backsides off to advocate for us.

I would have to say at this point you appear to be a plant from the anti's. On rereading you post I am pretty certain of it. Calling anyone who disagrees with you as fear mongering and addiction driven paranoia...

You have lost all credibility.

I used to read the calls to action then proposed legislation. There's usually a disconnect between the proposals and their summaries and 'attention grabbing' titles and summaries. How can an 'advocacy' group be taken seriously when they use fear and sensationalism?
I hear the ANTS operate covertly and lurk around every corner...
 

AndriaD

Reviewer / Blogger
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jan 24, 2014
21,253
50,806
63
LawrencevilleGA
angryvaper.crypticsites.com
Listen up folks, lets keep the chatter about how many liters of liquid you have in the deep freeze out of this thread. This isn't about you, this is about the 40 plus million folks who still smoke, and if the deeming is a bad as originally advertised that number will essentially remain unchanged.

I agree that those are the folks who will suffer most, but I don't think the number of them will remain unchanged; the changeover from tobacco to vapor may happen a lot more slowly than it has been happening so far, but as long as there are some of us out there vaping, *visibly*, it won't be truly dead -- and when we don't get sick and die as all the ANTZ have sworn that we will, it will be noticed -- and public pressure *can* cause changes to occur.

And also there's the fact of the black market -- many of us with a surplus in the freezer will be willing to underwrite friends who want to switch, so the freezer surplus isn't truly irrelevant.

Andria
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread