FDA delivers Final Deeming Rule to OIRA

[Stubby]

I used to read the calls to action then proposed legislation. There's usually a disconnect between the proposals and their summaries and 'attention grabbing' titles and summaries. How can an 'advocacy' group be taken seriously when they use fear and sensationalism?
I hear the ANTS operate covertly and lurk around every corner...

You are going to have to be more specific Steve instead of making more vague accusations. I have kept up on the calls to action and I have seen none of the sensationalism you are accusing CASAA of doing. You need to give specific examples if you expect anyone to take you serious.

Of course I see you are still pushing the idea that we are all just addiction driven paranoids. Do you really want to go down that road Steve. A lot of what you are saying is straight out of the anti's playbook. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, it probably is a duck. So far you are attacking essentially all of the legitimate THR advocates, accusing people of being addiction driven paranoids, and telling us flat out lies about the deeming regulation.

I have no idea of what your agenda is but it doesn't look good.

 

[stevegmu]

You are going to have to be more specific Steve instead of making more vague accusations. I have kept up on the calls to action and I have seen none of the sensationalism you are accusing CASAA of doing. You need to give specific examples if you expect anyone to take you serious.

Of course I see you are still pushing the idea that we are all just addiction driven paranoids. Do you really want to go down that road Steve. A lot of what you are saying is straight out of the anti's playbook. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, it probably is a duck. So far you are attacking essentially all of the legitimate THR advocates, accusing people of being addiction driven paranoids, and telling us flat out lies about the deeming regulation.

I have no idea of what your agenda is but it doesn't look good.

I'm not going through years worth of calls to actions. I've already done that once before...

If nicotine weren't addictive, there wouldn't be hoarding based on fear of loss of supply...

 

[pennysmalls]

If nicotine weren't addictive, there wouldn't be hoarding based on fear of loss of supply...

Did you not see what happened when Hostess shut down? Talk about hoarding, not a Twinkie to be found anywhere lol! Now that was a fear of loss of supply. You're gonna have to do better than that Stevo.

 

[sofarsogood]

Smoking is less expensive than vaping in the 3rd world...

I found this web page summarizing cigarette costs for most every nation on the planet. http://cigarettesprices.strikingly.com

Based on the above, one of the least expensive places on earth to smoke is Cambodia, $1 a pack, 5 cents per cigarette. So a carton a week is $10 X 50 weeks = $500 per year. My DIY e liquid made with everything bought from US vendors is 84 cents a week, less than 1/10th the cost. All smokers everywhere can save a lot of money with vaping. The poorest people who smoke would benefit the most from switching. A smoker in Cambodia who saves $400 a year probably helps himself more than I do when I save $3000 a year. May be the money he saves helps feed his children. Instead of food assistance why don't we help him switch to vaping. He turns $100 worth of vaping stuff into $500 for more food for the kids. That's a feel good story I'd say.

Does anybody here know Bill Gates? He might like this one.

 

[stevegmu]

I found this web page summarizing cigarette costs for most every nation on the planet. http://cigarettesprices.strikingly.com

Based on the above, one of the least expensive places on earth to smoke is Cambodia, $1 a pack, 5 cents per cigarette. So a carton a week is $10 X 50 weeks = $500 per year. My DIY e liquid made with everything bought from US vendors is 84 cents a week, less than 1/10th the cost. All smokers everywhere can save a lot of money with vaping. The poorest people who smoke would benefit the most from switching. A smoker in Cambodia who saves $400 a year probably helps himself more than I do when I save $3000 a year. May be the money he saves helps feed his children. Instead of food assistance why don't we help him switch to vaping. He turns $100 worth of vaping stuff into $500 for more food for the kids. That's a feel good story I'd say.

Does anybody here know Bill Gates? He might like this one.

You can't buy DIY stuff or hardware in 3rd world countries for what you can in the US, so it ends up being more expensive. There's also having to have a computer and credit card to order, As shops are few and far between...

 

[stevegmu]

Did you not see what happened when Hostess shut down? Talk about hoarding, not a Twinkie to be found anywhere lol! Now that was a fear of loss of supply. You're gonna have to do better than that Stevo.

Obese people are addicted to food, if they aren't obese due to a thyroid issue...

 

[sofarsogood]

You can't buy DIY stuff or hardware in 3rd world countries for what you can in the US, so it ends up being more expensive. There's also having to have a computer and credit card to order, As shops are few and far between...

Now you are being argumentative. Supply chains for consumers can be established just as they are for tobacco. Pilot projects that study how to speed up the process could be pursued by entities like the Gates Foundation if they were interested. The extreme cost advantage of ecigs is a huge help. That will be discovered over time. Demand will grow. Entrepreneurs will gear up to meet demand. This will happen every where there is smoking. The issue is how fast it will happen.

 

[stevegmu]

Now you are being argumentative. Supply chains for consumers can be established just as they are for tobacco. Pilot projects that study how to speed up the process could be pursued by entities like the Gates Foundation if they were interested. The extreme cost advantage of ecigs is a huge help. That will be discovered over time. Demand will grow. Entrepreneurs will gear up to meet demand. This will happen every where there is smoking. The issue is how fast it will happen.

I don't think you understand how things work in places like China or India...

 

[pennysmalls]

Obese people are addicted to food, if they aren't obese due to a thyroid issue...

 

[zoiDman]

Obese people are addicted to food, if they aren't obese due to a thyroid issue...

I don't think you understand how things work in places like China or India...

What does Any of this have to do about Deeming?

 

[stevegmu]

What does Any of this have to do about Deeming?

You seem to not have read the posts I responded to...

 

[zoiDman]

You seem to not have read the posts I responded to...

Maybe I should Re-Phrase it for you.

"What does Any of this have to do with Changing the Outcome of the Deeming?

 

[sofarsogood]

"What does Any of this have to do with Change the Outcome of the Deeming?

Everybody who vapes might be concerned about how the FDA might limit access to products and/or increase the cost of vaping. That covers a lot of ground. The people in the ecig business tend to use tactics fairly similar to the way public health officials try to manipulate the public, be vague on the details in ways that have more to do with scaring people than informing them. May be there is plenty for vapers to be scared about but reliable details are illusive, even in this forum, which has to be vape central if there is such a place.

 

[stevegmu]

Maybe I should Re-Phrase it for you.

"What does Any of this have to do with Changing the Outcome of the Deeming?

You must have missed the posts I was responding to...

 

[stevegmu]

Everybody who vapes might be concerned about how the FDA might limit access to products and/or increase the cost of vaping. That covers a lot of ground. The people in the ecig business tend to use tactics fairly similar to the way public health officials try to manipulate the public, be vague on the details in ways that have more to do with scaring people than informing them. May be there is plenty for vapers to be scared about but reliable details are illusive, even in this forum, which has to be vape central if there is such a place.

My e-liquid brand of choice already uses safety caps, labeling, tests, doesn't use DA/AP and doesn't have flavors which could be seen as appealing to children. I don't see any issues after the 'deeming' passes sometime next year or the year after...

 

[zoiDman]

You must have missed the posts I was responding to...

I guess I did. Because all I saw was stuff like this...

"The federal government is pretty much shut down for the year concerning things like this. Next year is a campaign year, so nothing drastic will happen. I'm guessing Hillary will push the FDA in 2018 to do something..."

"For the last 3 years, the FDA was set to 'ban' vaping tomorrow. I don't believe anything will happen anytime soon...
Advertised by who? Fearmongerers and vendors? I think most have not even read the proposals..."

Funny in a way. Because those who are in Favor of a Restrictive Deeming are Rallying their Troops.

exm:

httpwww. asam.org/magazine/read/article/2015/10/23/advocacy-action-alert!-tell-the-white-house-the-fda-should-regulate-all-tobacco-products

httpwww. ash.org/call-white-house-oct-27/

Guess they think things are going to happen Sooner than some do here.

 

[stevegmu]

I guess I did. Because all I saw was stuff like this...

"The federal government is pretty much shut down for the year concerning things like this. Next year is a campaign year, so nothing drastic will happen. I'm guessing Hillary will push the FDA in 2018 to do something..."

"For the last 3 years, the FDA was set to 'ban' vaping tomorrow. I don't believe anything will happen anytime soon...
Advertised by who? Fearmongerers and vendors? I think most have not even read the proposals..."

Funny in a way. Because those who are in Favor of a Restrictive Deeming are Rallying their Troops.

It's funny when I have brought up how CR is free and
exm:

httpwww. asam.org/magazine/read/article/2015/10/23/advocacy-action-alert!-tell-the-white-house-the-fda-should-regulate-all-tobacco-products

httpwww. ash.org/call-white-house-oct-27/

Guess they think things are going to happen Sooner than some do here.

Those against vaping are as obsessed with vaping as much as the activists, but that doesn't mean either side is correct...

Funny thing I see a parallel to the proposed smoking legislation in CR. On January 1, 2016, smoking at bars, restaurants and hotels would be prohibited in Prague. President M. Zeman said he would not veto the bill if Parliament passed it. Those in favor of the legislation campaigned for the ban and those against were all doom and gloom. I wasn't the least bit concerned. Knowing how the CR Parliament operates, I was fairly certain nothing would happen.

As it is, the Parliament killed the legislation...

 

[AndriaD]

Everybody who vapes might be concerned about how the FDA might limit access to products and/or increase the cost of vaping. That covers a lot of ground. The people in the ecig business tend to use tactics fairly similar to the way public health officials try to manipulate the public, be vague on the details in ways that have more to do with scaring people than informing them. May be there is plenty for vapers to be scared about but reliable details are illusive, even in this forum, which has to be vape central if there is such a place.

I wouldn't say there is "plenty to be scared about." But that's the thing; people seem to have this need to define something as either the greatest, safest thing since sliced bread, or it's the antichrist. NOTHING in life is that cut-and-dried. Naturally there are risks in vaping; there are risks in GETTING OUT OF BED IN THE MORNING, it's called "life", which is the condition that precedes "death" -- which is a destination we will all one day reach. The point of vaping is that we might arrive there a bit later than if we continued smoking, and we'll certainly have better health and better aroma on the way there.

Does that mean that vaping will cure everything that ails you and make you immortal? No it does not. Any single thing which is taken into the body in any fashion or form carries risks -- even water! Humans do have minds which are capable of great discrimination and judgment, they're just so very loathe to use them! It's so quick and easy to *immediately* label *everything* as 'all good" or "all bad", the way that kindergartners might, but it's time that those of us who actually use our heads for something besides holding up our hair made it very clear to all the nanny kindergartners of the world that they are idiots, and we just aren't putting up with being bullied by idiots.

Andria

 

[zoiDman]

BTW - What is the Current Cost of a Postage Stamp to mail a #10 Envelope?

I'm drafting a Letter and am going to use the Address found at the Top of This One.

http www .merkley.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/10.21.15%20Letter%20to%20OMB%20Director%20Donovan%20on%20the%20Tobacco%20Deeming%20Rule.pdf

 

[sofarsogood]

My e-liquid brand of choice already uses safety caps, labeling, tests, doesn't use DA/AP and doesn't have flavors which could be seen as appealing to children. I don't see any issues after the 'deeming' passes sometime next year or the year after...

I label my DIY with printed stickers made at work. So I better have a warning label for the shop floor, "Warning, this belongs to Charlie, ask before you take any."